Subject: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 08:53:05 -0500 Thank you for your excellent reply and description of the SEP sensor. I am sure that it will be helpful to interested parties in our PSN group here in the U.S. Please let me clarify my questions. Many of the amateur seismology people here are using Larry Cochran's A/D Amp box from Webtronics in Redwood City, California. We are also using his WinSDR and WinQuake software packages for display and analysis. Many of us are very interested in the SEP Sensor, but wish it to be compatible with our present equipment and software setup. We realize that it is designed, along with your A/D Amp box, to be used with Amaseis. But, we observe that the connection from the magnet/coil goes directly into your A/D Amp box and from there to the computer with AmaSeis software. I appears obvious to me that the signal from the magnet/coil going to your A/D box would be a simple analog signal. That is exactly what we use in our setups. Therefore, why couldn't that signal be plugged directly into our A/D Amp box with the RCA plug? We would not use your box and software, unless we chose to use it, and would the option of either type connection. Secondly, cost and shipping of the SEP is a major factor! The sensor obviously is of outstanding construction. However, since the majority of our users here are not educational institutions or commercial companies, we do not have unlimited funds. Many of us are retired and enjoy seismology as a hobby. Those of us that have the ability, construct our own sensors from whatever materials we can. Months ago, I asked and was told that you were investigating the ability of paying for the SEP with credit cards. I have never heard anymore or see anything on your webpage indicating that is possible. Furthermore, we need to know what the estimated shipping costs might be to the U.S. Believe me! There IS an interest in the SEP sensor here in the U.S. Best regards, Gerald Payton. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Emma O'Malley To: gpayton@............. Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:10 AM Here's the Answer for the technical question: The Seismometer electronics were designed with Amaseis in mind. An extra option for the SEP Seismometer was added to Amaseis, however, the data format is fairly standard over the 9600 baud serial link. The protocol transmits each sampled value (every 1/20th of a second) as an ASCII string, i.e. -32767 to +32767 followed by a CR and LF. Hence, the data could certainly be captured and analyzed without Amaseis. Hope this helps. Kind Regards Emma O'Malley Sales Administrator Teaching Resources Ltd (MUTR) Unit 10 The IO Centre Lea Road Waltham Cross Herts EN9 1AS 01992 716052 TEL 01992 719474 FAX
 
Thank you for your excellent reply and description of the SEP = sensor. =20 I am sure that it will be helpful to interested  parties in our PSN = group=20 here in the U.S.
 
Please let me clarify my questions.  Many of the amateur = seismology=20 people here are using Larry Cochran's A/D Amp box from = Webtronics in=20 Redwood City, California.  We are also using his WinSDR and = WinQuake=20 software packages for display and analysis.
 
Many of us are very interested in the SEP Sensor, but wish it to be = compatible with our present equipment and software setup.  We = realize that=20 it is designed, along with your A/D Amp box, to be used with = Amaseis.=20 But, we observe that the connection from the magnet/coil goes directly = into your=20 A/D Amp box and from there to the computer with AmaSeis software.
 
I appears obvious to me that the signal from the magnet/coil = going to=20 your A/D box  would be a simple analog = signal.  That=20 is exactly what we use in our setups.  Therefore, why couldn't that = signal=20 be plugged directly into our A/D Amp box with the RCA plug?  We = would not=20 use your box and software, unless we chose to use it, and would the = option of=20 either type connection.
 
Secondly, cost and shipping of the SEP is a major=20 factor!  The sensor obviously is of outstanding=20 construction.  However, since the majority of our users here are = not=20 educational institutions or commercial companies, we do not have = unlimited=20 funds.  Many of us are retired and enjoy seismology as a = hobby. =20 Those of us that have the ability, construct our own sensors from = whatever=20 materials we can. 
 
Months ago, I asked and was told that you were investigating the = ability of=20 paying for the SEP with credit cards.  I have never heard anymore = or see=20 anything on your webpage indicating that is possible.  Furthermore, = we need=20 to know what the estimated shipping costs might be to the U.S.  =
 
Believe me!  There IS an interest in the SEP sensor here in = the=20 U.S.
 
Best regards,
Gerald Payton.

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Emma=20 O'Malley
To: gpayton@.............
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 = 7:10=20 AM

Here's the = Answer for the=20 technical question:

 

The Seismometer=20 electronics were designed with Amaseis in mind. An extra option for = the SEP=20 Seismometer was added to Amaseis, however, the data format is fairly = standard=20 over the 9600 baud serial link. The protocol transmits each sampled = value=20 (every 1/20th of a second) as an ASCII string, i.e. -32767 to +32767 = followed=20 by a CR and LF. Hence, the data could certainly be captured and = analyzed=20 without Amaseis.

 

Hope this=20 helps.

 

 

Kind=20 Regards

 

 

 

Emma=20 O=92Malley

Sales=20 Administrator

Teaching=20 Resources Ltd

(MUTR)

Unit=20 10

The=20 IO Centre

Lea=20 Road

Waltham=20 Cross

Herts

EN9=20 1AS

01992=20 716052 TEL

01992=20 719474 FAX

 

 

Subject: Re: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:19:19 -0700 Are Yous Guys by chance talking about that sensor used in the musical instrument called a theremin ? It was developed by some Russian guy named Theremin ?? The instrument which is the hardest of all to make sound good and was used in the old science fictions of the 1950's ? One proximity sensor is used for volume and the other is used for frequency. It is kind of like an AM and FM modulator both rolled into one ?? It just may work as a Seismic Sensor if the span is set right. Like zero to 100% within a millimeter ? Any ideas here ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "Emma O'Malley" Cc: "PSN Network List" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:53 AM Subject: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK > > Thank you for your excellent reply and description of the SEP sensor. I am > sure that it will be helpful to interested parties in our PSN group here in > the U.S. > > Please let me clarify my questions. Many of the amateur seismology people > here are using Larry Cochran's A/D Amp box from Webtronics in Redwood City, > California. We are also using his WinSDR and WinQuake software packages for > display and analysis. > > Many of us are very interested in the SEP Sensor, but wish it to be > compatible with our present equipment and software setup. We realize that > it is designed, along with your A/D Amp box, to be used with Amaseis. But, > we observe that the connection from the magnet/coil goes directly into your > A/D Amp box and from there to the computer with AmaSeis software. > > I appears obvious to me that the signal from the magnet/coil going to your > A/D box would be a simple analog signal. That is exactly what we use in > our setups. Therefore, why couldn't that signal be plugged directly into > our A/D Amp box with the RCA plug? We would not use your box and software, > unless we chose to use it, and would the option of either type connection. > > Secondly, cost and shipping of the SEP is a major factor! The sensor > obviously is of outstanding construction. However, since the majority of > our users here are not educational institutions or commercial companies, we > do not have unlimited funds. Many of us are retired and enjoy seismology as > a hobby. Those of us that have the ability, construct our own sensors from > whatever materials we can. > > Months ago, I asked and was told that you were investigating the ability of > paying for the SEP with credit cards. I have never heard anymore or see > anything on your webpage indicating that is possible. Furthermore, we need > to know what the estimated shipping costs might be to the U.S. > > Believe me! There IS an interest in the SEP sensor here in the U.S. > > Best regards, > Gerald Payton. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Emma O'Malley > To: gpayton@............. > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:10 AM > > > Here's the Answer for the technical question: > > > > The Seismometer electronics were designed with Amaseis in mind. An extra > option for the SEP Seismometer was added to Amaseis, however, the data > format is fairly standard over the 9600 baud serial link. The protocol > transmits each sampled value (every 1/20th of a second) as an ASCII string, > i.e. -32767 to +32767 followed by a CR and LF. Hence, the data could > certainly be captured and analyzed without Amaseis. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > > > > > > Emma O'Malley > > Sales Administrator > > Teaching Resources Ltd > > (MUTR) > > Unit 10 > > The IO Centre > > Lea Road > > Waltham Cross > > Herts > > EN9 1AS > > 01992 716052 TEL > > 01992 719474 FAX > > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 09:33:20 -0700 I was just thinking of the best idea of all for any Amature wanting to save money. If you could put a sensor, like a capacitive or inductive or whatever which is a sphere within a sphere. Like a Russian 2 Doll sensor. you may possibly sense motion in any direction at all. This means you need only one sensor to detect motion in any direction. It is the kind which is of interest to myself. Yet somehow i imagine since you do not limit your direction the noise may be greater. Not sure about any of this, but someone of you is. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: "Emma O'Malley" Cc: "PSN Network List" Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:53 AM Subject: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK > > Thank you for your excellent reply and description of the SEP sensor. I am > sure that it will be helpful to interested parties in our PSN group here in > the U.S. > > Please let me clarify my questions. Many of the amateur seismology people > here are using Larry Cochran's A/D Amp box from Webtronics in Redwood City, > California. We are also using his WinSDR and WinQuake software packages for > display and analysis. > > Many of us are very interested in the SEP Sensor, but wish it to be > compatible with our present equipment and software setup. We realize that > it is designed, along with your A/D Amp box, to be used with Amaseis. But, > we observe that the connection from the magnet/coil goes directly into your > A/D Amp box and from there to the computer with AmaSeis software. > > I appears obvious to me that the signal from the magnet/coil going to your > A/D box would be a simple analog signal. That is exactly what we use in > our setups. Therefore, why couldn't that signal be plugged directly into > our A/D Amp box with the RCA plug? We would not use your box and software, > unless we chose to use it, and would the option of either type connection. > > Secondly, cost and shipping of the SEP is a major factor! The sensor > obviously is of outstanding construction. However, since the majority of > our users here are not educational institutions or commercial companies, we > do not have unlimited funds. Many of us are retired and enjoy seismology as > a hobby. Those of us that have the ability, construct our own sensors from > whatever materials we can. > > Months ago, I asked and was told that you were investigating the ability of > paying for the SEP with credit cards. I have never heard anymore or see > anything on your webpage indicating that is possible. Furthermore, we need > to know what the estimated shipping costs might be to the U.S. > > Believe me! There IS an interest in the SEP sensor here in the U.S. > > Best regards, > Gerald Payton. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Emma O'Malley > To: gpayton@............. > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:10 AM > > > Here's the Answer for the technical question: > > > > The Seismometer electronics were designed with Amaseis in mind. An extra > option for the SEP Seismometer was added to Amaseis, however, the data > format is fairly standard over the 9600 baud serial link. The protocol > transmits each sampled value (every 1/20th of a second) as an ASCII string, > i.e. -32767 to +32767 followed by a CR and LF. Hence, the data could > certainly be captured and analyzed without Amaseis. > > > > Hope this helps. > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > > > > > > Emma O'Malley > > Sales Administrator > > Teaching Resources Ltd > > (MUTR) > > Unit 10 > > The IO Centre > > Lea Road > > Waltham Cross > > Herts > > EN9 1AS > > 01992 716052 TEL > > 01992 719474 FAX > > > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:31:16 -0700 Gerald, Try to order the SEP Sensor without the electronics. Then just use Larry's amplifier and A/D converter and WinSDR software. That would work out just fine. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:53 AM To: Emma O'Malley Cc: PSN Network List Subject: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK Thank you for your excellent reply and description of the SEP sensor. I am sure that it will be helpful to interested parties in our PSN group here in the U.S. Please let me clarify my questions. Many of the amateur seismology people here are using Larry Cochran's A/D Amp box from Webtronics in Redwood City, California. We are also using his WinSDR and WinQuake software packages for display and analysis. Many of us are very interested in the SEP Sensor, but wish it to be compatible with our present equipment and software setup. We realize that it is designed, along with your A/D Amp box, to be used with Amaseis. But, we observe that the connection from the magnet/coil goes directly into your A/D Amp box and from there to the computer with AmaSeis software. I appears obvious to me that the signal from the magnet/coil going to your A/D box would be a simple analog signal. That is exactly what we use in our setups. Therefore, why couldn't that signal be plugged directly into our A/D Amp box with the RCA plug? We would not use your box and software, unless we chose to use it, and would the option of either type connection. Secondly, cost and shipping of the SEP is a major factor! The sensor obviously is of outstanding construction. However, since the majority of our users here are not educational institutions or commercial companies, we do not have unlimited funds. Many of us are retired and enjoy seismology as a hobby. Those of us that have the ability, construct our own sensors from whatever materials we can. Months ago, I asked and was told that you were investigating the ability of paying for the SEP with credit cards. I have never heard anymore or see anything on your webpage indicating that is possible. Furthermore, we need to know what the estimated shipping costs might be to the U.S. Believe me! There IS an interest in the SEP sensor here in the U.S. Best regards, Gerald Payton. _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: Emma O'Malley To: gpayton@............. Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:10 AM Here's the Answer for the technical question: The Seismometer electronics were designed with Amaseis in mind. An extra option for the SEP Seismometer was added to Amaseis, however, the data format is fairly standard over the 9600 baud serial link. The protocol transmits each sampled value (every 1/20th of a second) as an ASCII string, i.e. -32767 to +32767 followed by a CR and LF. Hence, the data could certainly be captured and analyzed without Amaseis. Hope this helps. Kind Regards Emma O'Malley Sales Administrator Teaching Resources Ltd (MUTR) Unit 10 The IO Centre Lea Road Waltham Cross Herts EN9 1AS 01992 716052 TEL 01992 719474 FAX

Gerald,

Try to order the SEP Sensor without the electronics. Then = just use Larry's amplifier and A/D converter and WinSDR software. That would = work out just fine.

Gary

 

 

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 6:53 AM
To: Emma O'Malley
Cc: PSN Network List
Subject: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK

 

 

Thank you for your excellent = reply and description of the SEP sensor.  I am sure that it will be helpful = to interested  parties in our PSN group here in the = U.S.

 

Please let me clarify my = questions.  Many of the amateur seismology people here are using Larry Cochran's A/D = Amp box from Webtronics in Redwood City, California.  We are = also using his WinSDR and WinQuake software packages for display and = analysis.

 

Many of us are very interested = in the SEP Sensor, but wish it to be compatible with our present equipment and = software setup.  We realize that it is designed, along with your A/D Amp = box, to be used with Amaseis. But, we observe that the connection from the = magnet/coil goes directly into your A/D Amp box and from there to the computer with = AmaSeis software.

 

I appears obvious to me = that the signal from the magnet/coil going to your A/D box  would be a = simple analog signal.  That is exactly what we use in our = setups.  Therefore, why couldn't that signal be plugged directly into our A/D Amp = box with the RCA plug?  We would not use your box and software, unless = we chose to use it, and would the option of either type = connection.

 

Secondly, cost and = shipping of the SEP is a major factor!  The sensor obviously is of outstanding construction.  However, since = the majority of our users here are not educational institutions or = commercial companies, we do not have unlimited funds.  Many of us are retired = and enjoy seismology as a hobby.  Those of us that have the = ability, construct our own sensors from whatever materials we can.  =

 

Months ago, I asked and was told = that you were investigating the ability of paying for the SEP with credit = cards.  I have never heard anymore or see anything on your webpage indicating that = is possible.  Furthermore, we need to know what the estimated shipping = costs might be to the U.S. 

 

Believe me!  There IS an = interest in the SEP sensor here in the U.S.

 

Best = regards,

Gerald = Payton.


----- Original Message -----

From:<= /b> Emma O'Malley

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 7:10 = AM

 

Here's the Answer for the technical question:

 

The Seismometer electronics were designed with Amaseis in mind. An extra = option for the SEP Seismometer was added to Amaseis, however, the data format is = fairly standard over the 9600 baud serial link. The protocol transmits each = sampled value (every 1/20th of a second) as an ASCII string, i.e. -32767 to = +32767 followed by a CR and LF. Hence, the data could certainly be captured and analyzed without Amaseis.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

Kind Regards

 

 

 

Emma O’Malley

Sales Administrator

Teaching Resources Ltd

(MUTR)

Unit 10

The IO Centre

Lea Road

Waltham Cross

Herts

EN9 1AS

01992 716052 = TEL

01992 719474 FAX

 

 

Subject: Please use exact terminology which can not be confused From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 13:43:20 -0700 Hello PSN folk; Please use exact terminology which can not be confused with anything other than what you really mean. SEP it means all kinds of things none of which is interesting. How does SEP relate to seismic ?? This is the most frustrating thing I know about the civilian world and the Religious folk running it. Sorting out what they mean when they say anything at all. Thanx; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Please use exact terminology which can not be confused From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:51:16 -0500 Geoffrey, it IS correct. http://www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=9047
Geoffrey, it IS correct.
http:/= /www.mutr.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=3D9047
Subject: Re: SEP Sensor from (MTUR) in the UK From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 15:53:22 -0500 I agree, IF they would comply. Gerald, Try to order the SEP Sensor without the electronics. Then just use Larry's amplifier and A/D converter and WinSDR software. That would work out just fine. Gary
I agree, IF they would comply.
 

Gerald,

Try=20 to order the SEP Sensor without the electronics. Then just use Larry's = amplifier and A/D converter and WinSDR software. That would work out = just=20 fine.

Gary

Subject: Re: Please use exact terminology which can not be confused From: AHrubetz@....... Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 16:58:41 EDT Geoff, the SEP seismometer system, with Chris Chapman as a major contributor to it's development, has been around at least since 2007. I am surprised you have not heard of it. Regards, Al Hrubetz In a message dated 7/1/2010 3:45:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gmvoeth@........... writes: Hello PSN folk; Please use exact terminology which can not be confused with anything other than what you really mean. SEP it means all kinds of things none of which is interesting. How does SEP relate to seismic ?? This is the most frustrating thing I know about the civilian world and the Religious folk running it. Sorting out what they mean when they say anything at all. Thanx; geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Geoff, the SEP seismometer system, with Chris= Chapman=20 as a major contributor to it's development, has been around at least since= =20 2007.  I am surprised you have not heard of it.
Regards,
Al Hrubetz
 
In a message dated 7/1/2010 3:45:15 P.M. Central Daylight Time,=20 gmvoeth@........... writes:
Hello=20 PSN folk;


Please use exact terminology which can not be=20 confused
with anything other than what you really=20 mean.

SEP


it means all kinds of things none of whichis=20 interesting.

How does SEP relate to seismic ??

This is the= most=20 frustrating thing I know about the civilian world
and the Religious= folk=20 running it.

Sorting out what they mean when they say anything at= =20 all.

Thanx;
geoff


_________________________________= _________________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email=20 PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first lin= e=20 only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mo= re=20 information.
Subject: Re: Please use exact terminology which can not be confused From: "K.-Benoit Evans" kevans@............ Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 23:08:38 -0400 The SEP Seismometer is so called because it is part of a British = educational endeavour called the "Science Enhancement Programme" (SEP). Regards, Beno=EEt Evans On 2010-07-01, at 16:43, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN folk; >=20 >=20 > Please use exact terminology which can not be confused > with anything other than what you really mean. >=20 > SEP >=20 >=20 > it means all kinds of things none of which > is interesting. >=20 > How does SEP relate to seismic ?? >=20 > This is the most frustrating thing I know about the civilian world > and the Religious folk running it. >=20 > Sorting out what they mean when they say anything at all. >=20 > Thanx; > geoff >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of = the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: SET From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 04:24:34 EDT Hi All, This is just to clarify the back ground to the SET seismometer which Chris Chapman and others including myself have been involved in. This schools seismometer is part of a drive in this country to rekindle the interest in science amongst the younger generation . The understanding and status of science in this country has fallen to an appalling state and is particularly alarming now given the present economic situation. A drive by the government some years ago called STEM standing for Science Technology Engineering and Maths is an attempt to rectify this situation. Those of us who have the time and inclination act as Schools Science Ambassadors giving talks and demonstrations on various aspects of the sciences in the class. It is done on a purely voluntary basis and receive no monies for this. A good number of schools now have a seismometer which enhances the teaching of geography and geology. A few of these of seismometers have been donated by business. Chris Chapman has given enormous support for this project which I understand has faced many administrative obstacles. Martin
Hi All,
 
   This is just to clarify the back ground to the SET seism= ometer=20 which Chris Chapman and others including myself have been involved in.&nbs= p;=20 This schools seismometer is part of a drive in this country to rekindle th= e=20 interest in science amongst the younger generation . The understanding and= =20 status of science in this country has fallen to an appalling state and is= =20 particularly alarming now given the present economic situation.
A drive= by=20 the government some years ago called STEM standing for Science Technology= =20 Engineering and Maths is an attempt to rectify this situation. Those of us= who=20 have the time and inclination act as Schools Science Ambassadors giving ta= lks=20 and demonstrations on various aspects of the sciences in the class. It is= done=20 on a purely voluntary basis and receive no monies for this.  A good= number=20 of schools now have a seismometer which enhances the teaching of geography= and=20 geology. A few of these of seismometers have been donated by business.
 
Chris Chapman has given enormous support for this project which I=20 understand has faced many administrative obstacles. 
 
Martin
Subject: RE: SET From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 10:09:23 -0700 Martin, I praise your teams' efforts. The PSN has a history of working with schools and we should create a recognition page one of the websites. In 1990 following The Loma Prieta Earthquake many of the schools here in California asked for support and a number of members got involved and provided equipment and classroom hours to a number of classrooms. It was a very rewarding experience and reached hundreds of students. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose-Aptos, California From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Tangazazen@....... Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 1:25 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: SET Hi All, This is just to clarify the back ground to the SET seismometer which Chris Chapman and others including myself have been involved in. This schools seismometer is part of a drive in this country to rekindle the interest in science amongst the younger generation . The understanding and status of science in this country has fallen to an appalling state and is particularly alarming now given the present economic situation. A drive by the government some years ago called STEM standing for Science Technology Engineering and Maths is an attempt to rectify this situation. Those of us who have the time and inclination act as Schools Science Ambassadors giving talks and demonstrations on various aspects of the sciences in the class. It is done on a purely voluntary basis and receive no monies for this. A good number of schools now have a seismometer which enhances the teaching of geography and geology. A few of these of seismometers have been donated by business. Chris Chapman has given enormous support for this project which I understand has faced many administrative obstacles. Martin

Martin,

 

I praise your teams’ efforts. The PSN has a history = of working with schools and we should create a recognition page one of the websites.

 

In 1990 following The Loma Prieta Earthquake many of the = schools here in California asked for support and a number of members got = involved and provided equipment and classroom hours to a number of classrooms. It was = a very rewarding experience and reached hundreds of students. =

 

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose—Aptos, = California

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Tangazazen@.......
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 1:25 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: SET

 

Hi All,

 

   This is just to clarify the back ground to the = SET seismometer which Chris Chapman and others including myself have been = involved in.  This schools seismometer is part of a drive in this country to rekindle the interest in science amongst the younger generation . The understanding and status of science in this country has fallen to an = appalling state and is particularly alarming now given the present economic = situation.
A drive by the government some years ago called STEM standing for = Science Technology Engineering and Maths is an attempt to rectify this = situation. Those of us who have the time and inclination act as Schools Science = Ambassadors giving talks and demonstrations on various aspects of the sciences in = the class. It is done on a purely voluntary basis and receive no monies for this.  A good number of schools now have a seismometer which = enhances the teaching of geography and geology. A few of these of seismometers have = been donated by business.

 

Chris Chapman has given enormous support for this project = which I understand has faced many administrative = obstacles. 

 

Martin

Subject: J'accuse From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 06:13:13 EDT Hi All, I do not know if all members are aware of the events unfolding in Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be prosecute for man slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aquila. This is in spite of one Giampaolo Giuliani touring the town a week before with a loud speaker van warning the residents. He was subsequently arrested. It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant to bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien. Martin Page
 =20
Hi All,
 
     I do not know if all members are aware of th= e=20 events unfolding in Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be=20 prosecute for man slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aqu= ila.=20 This is in spite of one  Giampaolo Giuliani touring the tow= n a=20 week before with a loud speaker van warning the residents. He was=20 subsequently arrested.
It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant= to=20 bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien.
 
 
Martin Page
Subject: Re: J'accuse From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 08:15:36 -0500 This is an article about which Martin is referring: http://www.earthmagazine.org/earth/article/35b-7da-7-1 Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Tangazazen@....... To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 5:13 AM Subject: J'accuse Hi All, I do not know if all members are aware of the events unfolding in Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be prosecute for man slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aquila. This is in spite of one Giampaolo Giuliani touring the town a week before with a loud speaker van warning the residents. He was subsequently arrested. It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant to bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien. Martin Page
This is an article about = which Martin=20 is referring:
http://ww= w.earthmagazine.org/earth/article/35b-7da-7-1
 
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tangazazen@.......
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 = 5:13 AM
Subject: J'accuse

 =20
Hi All,
 
     I do not know if all members are aware = of the=20 events unfolding in Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to = be=20 prosecute for man slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at = L'Aquila.=20 This is in spite of one  Giampaolo Giuliani touring the = town a=20 week before with a loud speaker van warning the residents. He was=20 subsequently arrested.
It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very = arrogant to=20 bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien.
 
 
Martin Page
Subject: J'Accuse From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 10:51:23 EDT Thank you Jerry, I should have made a web reference to this drama but to make amends I quote the L'Aquila's public prosecutor Alfredo Rossini who recently said, "Those responsible are people who should have given different answers to the public. We're not talking about the lack of an alarm, the alarm came with the movements of the ground. We're talking about the lack of advice telling people to leave their homes." This is an open letter to the President of Italy from the EMSC:- _http://www.emsc-csem.org/Doc/Laquila_indictment_EMSC_Support.pdf_ (http://www.emsc-csem.org/Doc/Laquila_indictment_EMSC_Support.pdf) Martin
 
 
Thank you Jerry,
    I should have made a web reference to this drama= but to=20 make amends I quote the L'Aquila's public prosecutor Alfredo Rossini who= =20 recently said, "Those responsible are people who should have given differe= nt=20 answers to the public. We're not talking about the lack of an alarm, the= alarm=20 came with the movements of the ground. We're talking about the lack of adv= ice=20 telling people to leave their homes."
 
This is an open letter to the President of Italy from the EMSC:-
 
 
 
 Martin
 
 
Subject: Re: J'accuse From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:06:32 +0200 Hi All, since i am Italian and work on seismology field since 1997 when an earthquake stroke my area (Umbria-Marche) with some causalties also, i hope to provide clarification on what is going on. It would be a very long story to report but i can't explain all in a small email, if someone wants know more simply ask here. First of all it should be taken in account that science world and politics in Italy are very bounded to each other. So very often there are discussion (if not literally legal litigation) among different seismic networks for who have calculated properly this or that earthquake magnitude. One say 4.1 the other 3.9 ... bla bla... Earthquake in l'Aquila stroke 6 april 2009. It has been a mainshock after months and months of increasing magnitude in a very long sequence. Historical seismic records for that area supposed a long sequence with expected magnitude up to 7.0 The area is very active and with very very complex faults systems. What I can say is that Giampaolo Giuliani warned the population there because not only he was knowing the seismological history of the place (that include accurate records since 1500 a.c.). Giuliani warned also because he has a small network of detectors that are not exactly radon-detector but it is a more complex system not completely disclosed but it regards a special measurement of radon in a special lead-camera (not sealed of course) capable of trap only certain istopes, (don't ask me more on this because i don't know the details). This earthquake sequence has been monitored also by me and others of the Italian Experimental Seismic Network that is the same as the PSN only is in Italy. It is well known that one of the most reliable earthquake precursors (if i am correct it should be analyzed by a japanese named Takamori or soemthing like it i don't remember, sorry); that is presente when a sequence of small earthquake rise and rise in magnitude and frequency during time until suddenly the sequence of events stops without have decreased the magnitude. In this case from up to 72 hours you must expect a "mainshock" of magnitude from 1 to 1.5 magnitude over the higher magnitude observed in the foreshocks. This is exactly what happened in l'aquila. So this earthquake could be forecasted. But almost nobody is complaining this specifically. Almost every people in Abruzzo (L'Aquila's region) is complaing that the evening of the 5th april the Civil Defense was going up and down on the villages telling: "Please go back home, inside home. There is no concern, please leave the roads free, there is no alarm for earthquakes." This politic to keep people calm and not induce panic is common custom and fashion since tenths of years in Italy. The main question of the people now is: IF THE EARTHQUAKE CANNOT BE FORECASTED WHAY CIVIL DEFENSE TOLD PEOPLE TO GO INSIDE HOUSES EXPLAINING THAT NO EARTHQUAKE WILL HAPPENS? If there is no way to forecast earthquake you cannot forecast if it will happen NOR if it would NOT happen. And now the people are upset because 300 causualties, among these many young students in the university that called the families telling: do not worry, the civil defense told us there is NO concern. So I remain here because tomorrow i have exams etc. etc... This is what happened in L'Aquila. There is no arrogance among families. Only upset against a corrupted and lobbiest scientific class of people. Technical explaination: The region surrounding l'Aquila is a very strange area sismologically speaking, it is very active in seismic and also present a VERY STRONG effect of site amplification. I write a link of one interesting article wrote by a friend of mine that explain how is the underground near l'aquila and explain why so many damages happened even if recent buildings. You can download the article clicking here: http://www.infoeq.it/LF_AMPLIFICATION_AQUILA.PDF Best regards Mauro Il 04/07/2010 12:13, Tangazazen@....... ha scritto: > > Hi All, > > I do not know if all members are aware of the events unfolding in > Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be prosecute for man > slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aquila. This is in spite of > one Giampaolo Giuliani touring the town a week before with a loud speaker > van warning the residents. He was subsequently arrested. > It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant to > bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien. > > > Martin Page > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: J'Accuse From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 18:21:57 +0200 Hi again, Thank to Martin to brought it to my attention sinc i have underlooked it, i want to tell you another story regardin 1997. In september 1997 the ceiling of the Assisi church collapsed over some tecnicians and a cameraman of Italian News Tg5 recorded everything, maybe someone remember this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ_vR2tDbhg&feature=related Why these tecnician was there after less than 12 hours after one big event? It is well documented and also historically (hudreds of year before) that Appenninian fault systems always release TWO events. Usually the second with 12-20 hours and that it can be near or slightly over the main shock. If you want I can post some extraction of Italian earthquake official catalogues. Please keep present that the faults system northern to city of Terni and southern from Terni have a rather different behaviour and also magnitude over terni historic catalouge report up to 5.0-6.0 magnitudes, below Terni up to 7.8 in magnitude. best regards Mauro Il 04/07/2010 16:51, Tangazazen@....... ha scritto: > > > Thank you Jerry, > I should have made a web reference to this drama but to make amends I > quote the L'Aquila's public prosecutor Alfredo Rossini who recently said, > "Those responsible are people who should have given different answers to the > public. We're not talking about the lack of an alarm, the alarm came with > the movements of the ground. We're talking about the lack of advice telling > people to leave their homes." > > This is an open letter to the President of Italy from the EMSC:- > > _http://www.emsc-csem.org/Doc/Laquila_indictment_EMSC_Support.pdf_ > (http://www.emsc-csem.org/Doc/Laquila_indictment_EMSC_Support.pdf) > > > Martin > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: J'accuse From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 12:16:49 -0700 Thanks Mauro for your update. If there are other interesting developments in Italy, please post them here to the PSN list. This is a good example of what can happen if you issue / don't issue a warning without really creditable scientific data supporting your conclusions. Here in the USA I feel the USGS has been doing a really good job of handling both the issue of warning the public about the dangers and then following any major event providing information to the public. This is normally done by radio, TV and the Internet. However, in reading your post, what I find different is the folks here at the USGS seem to always include the likelihoods / probabilities of a larger event occurring in their current assessments which allows the public to decide for themselves if they should evacuate to a safer location. The only example of a real prediction within a window of time that I can think of was Al Lynd's USGS in Menlo Park prediction for the Parkfield, CA earthquake. The event did occur but missed the window by about ten years. Al took a lot of heat over this because the had alarmed the town of Parkfield and a lot of money was spent in preparation of a large event. Eventually all the preparation paid-off and the town withstood the earthquake. Please keep us posted, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose-- Aptos, CA USA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Mauro Mariotti Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 9:07 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: J'accuse Hi All, since i am Italian and work on seismology field since 1997 when an earthquake stroke my area (Umbria-Marche) with some causalties also, i hope to provide clarification on what is going on. It would be a very long story to report but i can't explain all in a small email, if someone wants know more simply ask here. First of all it should be taken in account that science world and politics in Italy are very bounded to each other. So very often there are discussion (if not literally legal litigation) among different seismic networks for who have calculated properly this or that earthquake magnitude. One say 4.1 the other 3.9 ... bla bla... Earthquake in l'Aquila stroke 6 april 2009. It has been a mainshock after months and months of increasing magnitude in a very long sequence. Historical seismic records for that area supposed a long sequence with expected magnitude up to 7.0 The area is very active and with very very complex faults systems. What I can say is that Giampaolo Giuliani warned the population there because not only he was knowing the seismological history of the place (that include accurate records since 1500 a.c.). Giuliani warned also because he has a small network of detectors that are not exactly radon-detector but it is a more complex system not completely disclosed but it regards a special measurement of radon in a special lead-camera (not sealed of course) capable of trap only certain istopes, (don't ask me more on this because i don't know the details). This earthquake sequence has been monitored also by me and others of the Italian Experimental Seismic Network that is the same as the PSN only is in Italy. It is well known that one of the most reliable earthquake precursors (if i am correct it should be analyzed by a japanese named Takamori or soemthing like it i don't remember, sorry); that is presente when a sequence of small earthquake rise and rise in magnitude and frequency during time until suddenly the sequence of events stops without have decreased the magnitude. In this case from up to 72 hours you must expect a "mainshock" of magnitude from 1 to 1.5 magnitude over the higher magnitude observed in the foreshocks. This is exactly what happened in l'aquila. So this earthquake could be forecasted. But almost nobody is complaining this specifically. Almost every people in Abruzzo (L'Aquila's region) is complaing that the evening of the 5th april the Civil Defense was going up and down on the villages telling: "Please go back home, inside home. There is no concern, please leave the roads free, there is no alarm for earthquakes." This politic to keep people calm and not induce panic is common custom and fashion since tenths of years in Italy. The main question of the people now is: IF THE EARTHQUAKE CANNOT BE FORECASTED WHAY CIVIL DEFENSE TOLD PEOPLE TO GO INSIDE HOUSES EXPLAINING THAT NO EARTHQUAKE WILL HAPPENS? If there is no way to forecast earthquake you cannot forecast if it will happen NOR if it would NOT happen. And now the people are upset because 300 causualties, among these many young students in the university that called the families telling: do not worry, the civil defense told us there is NO concern. So I remain here because tomorrow i have exams etc. etc... This is what happened in L'Aquila. There is no arrogance among families. Only upset against a corrupted and lobbiest scientific class of people. Technical explaination: The region surrounding l'Aquila is a very strange area sismologically speaking, it is very active in seismic and also present a VERY STRONG effect of site amplification. I write a link of one interesting article wrote by a friend of mine that explain how is the underground near l'aquila and explain why so many damages happened even if recent buildings. You can download the article clicking here: http://www.infoeq.it/LF_AMPLIFICATION_AQUILA.PDF Best regards Mauro Il 04/07/2010 12:13, Tangazazen@....... ha scritto: > > Hi All, > > I do not know if all members are aware of the events unfolding in > Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be prosecute for man > slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aquila. This is in spite of > one Giampaolo Giuliani touring the town a week before with a loud speaker > van warning the residents. He was subsequently arrested. > It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant to > bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien. > > > Martin Page > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: J'accuse From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2010 19:18:43 -0700 I have read about the subject of Criminology, The study of all aspects of a criminal justice system. There exists a slight possibility it is not the real reason of his arrest. Law enforcement has been known to arrest and confine people for trumped up charges simply because other more dangerous forces are mustered against this fellow. The only way the law can keep him alive till the heat blows over might be by arresting him and confining him for stupid reasons that aren't really true. Not all of this, may be as it appears and, the forces that be, will not share this concept with you. I hope he is not going to be hung for some natural force that can not realistically be predicted. There's A scientist in Ispra Italy At the JRC, who I hope is watching this. His name too, is Martin. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 3:13 AM Subject: J'accuse > > Hi All, > > I do not know if all members are aware of the events unfolding in > Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be prosecute for man > slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aquila. This is in spite of > one Giampaolo Giuliani touring the town a week before with a loud speaker > van warning the residents. He was subsequently arrested. > It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant to > bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien. > > > Martin Page > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: J'accuse From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:30:11 +0200 Hello, Italy is probably the country with the highest seismic risk in the world. Seismic risk is not related to intenstity of expected earthquakes but it is a result of some factors: frequency, intensity and distribution of expected earthquake multiplied by age of building and the inverse of building robustness. Italy is an old country with many many building that cannot be simply demolished and rebuilt with new tecniques. Churches, castles, country houses belongs to the artistic and historical inheritage that is protected and cannot be modified. Of course popular houses can be modified and rebuilt with modern approaches. Not easy to do before an earthquake, almost nobody apply modifications to houses (getting out money by themselfes). So good public education and proper scientific and civil defense warnings are a key to solve this puzzle. I like what USGS is doing in the last years. Doing this in italy is almost impossible due to politics and crazy people that act like catholic church to Galileo. The opinion I have here after all this events is: 1) Inform clearly people about dangerousness of his area 2) Force proper building regulation 3) Recomend guidelines to be safe inside safe building (fix fornitures and shelf to avoid stuffs falls on your head during a shake) 4) Inform (not warn) population that a shake sequence is in act in a certain area. 5) If the sequence is serious and the historical record tells special care civil defense should make available tents in open spaces where people that are afraid to sleep inside house due to the house ageness can stay at night. Doing this earthquake forecast would become in time like weather forecast. Please don't exchange or overlap the definition "earthquake forecast" with "earthquake prediction". Earthquakes cannot be predicted, but can be forecasted. best regards Mauro Il 04/07/2010 21:16, Stephen Hammond ha scritto: > Thanks Mauro for your update. If there are other interesting developments in > Italy, please post them here to the PSN list. This is a good example of what > can happen if you issue / don't issue a warning without really creditable > scientific data supporting your conclusions. Here in the USA I feel the USGS > has been doing a really good job of handling both the issue of warning the > public about the dangers and then following any major event providing > information to the public. This is normally done by radio, TV and the > Internet. However, in reading your post, what I find different is the folks > here at the USGS seem to always include the likelihoods / probabilities of a > larger event occurring in their current assessments which allows the public > to decide for themselves if they should evacuate to a safer location. The > only example of a real prediction within a window of time that I can think > of was Al Lynd's USGS in Menlo Park prediction for the Parkfield, CA > earthquake. The event did occur but missed the window by about ten years. Al > took a lot of heat over this because the had alarmed the town of Parkfield > and a lot of money was spent in preparation of a large event. Eventually all > the preparation paid-off and the town withstood the earthquake. > > Please keep us posted, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose-- Aptos, CA USA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Mauro Mariotti > Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2010 9:07 AM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: J'accuse > > Hi All, > since i am Italian and work on seismology field since 1997 when an > earthquake stroke my area (Umbria-Marche) with some causalties also, i > hope to provide clarification on what is going on. > > It would be a very long story to report but i can't explain all in a > small email, if someone wants know more simply ask here. > > First of all it should be taken in account that science world and > politics in Italy are very bounded to each other. So very often there > are discussion (if not literally legal litigation) among different > seismic networks for who have calculated properly this or that > earthquake magnitude. One say 4.1 the other 3.9 ... bla bla... > > Earthquake in l'Aquila stroke 6 april 2009. > It has been a mainshock after months and months of increasing magnitude > in a very long sequence. Historical seismic records for that area > supposed a long sequence with expected magnitude up to 7.0 > > The area is very active and with very very complex faults systems. > > What I can say is that Giampaolo Giuliani warned the population there > because not only he was knowing the seismological history of the place > (that include accurate records since 1500 a.c.). > Giuliani warned also because he has a small network of detectors that > are not exactly radon-detector but it is a more complex system not > completely disclosed but it regards a special measurement of radon in a > special lead-camera (not sealed of course) capable of trap only certain > istopes, (don't ask me more on this because i don't know the details). > > This earthquake sequence has been monitored also by me and others of the > Italian Experimental Seismic Network that is the same as the PSN only is > in Italy. > > It is well known that one of the most reliable earthquake precursors (if > i am correct it should be analyzed by a japanese named Takamori or > soemthing like it i don't remember, sorry); that is presente when a > sequence of small earthquake rise and rise in magnitude and frequency > during time until suddenly the sequence of events stops without have > decreased the magnitude. In this case from up to 72 hours you must > expect a "mainshock" of magnitude from 1 to 1.5 magnitude over the > higher magnitude observed in the foreshocks. > This is exactly what happened in l'aquila. > So this earthquake could be forecasted. > But almost nobody is complaining this specifically. > Almost every people in Abruzzo (L'Aquila's region) is complaing that the > evening of the 5th april the Civil Defense was going up and down on the > villages telling: > "Please go back home, inside home. > There is no concern, please leave the roads free, there is no alarm for > earthquakes." > > This politic to keep people calm and not induce panic is common custom > and fashion since tenths of years in Italy. > > The main question of the people now is: > IF THE EARTHQUAKE CANNOT BE FORECASTED WHAY CIVIL DEFENSE TOLD PEOPLE TO > GO INSIDE HOUSES EXPLAINING THAT NO EARTHQUAKE WILL HAPPENS? > If there is no way to forecast earthquake you cannot forecast if it will > happen NOR if it would NOT happen. > > And now the people are upset because 300 causualties, among these many > young students in the university that called the families telling: do > not worry, the civil defense told us there is NO concern. So I remain > here because tomorrow i have exams etc. etc... > > This is what happened in L'Aquila. > There is no arrogance among families. > Only upset against a corrupted and lobbiest scientific class of people. > > Technical explaination: > The region surrounding l'Aquila is a very strange area sismologically > speaking, it is very active in seismic and also present a VERY STRONG > effect of site amplification. > > I write a link of one interesting article wrote by a friend of mine that > explain how is the underground near l'aquila and explain why so many > damages happened even if recent buildings. > > You can download the article clicking here: > > http://www.infoeq.it/LF_AMPLIFICATION_AQUILA.PDF > > Best regards > Mauro > > > > > > Il 04/07/2010 12:13, Tangazazen@....... ha scritto: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I do not know if all members are aware of the events unfolding in >> Italy. It seems the Italian seismologists are to be prosecute for man >> slaughter for failing to predict the earthquake at L'Aquila. This is in > spite of >> one Giampaolo Giuliani touring the town a week before with a loud > speaker >> van warning the residents. He was subsequently arrested. >> It is times like this that I feel that mankind has been very arrogant to >> bestow on himself the title of Homo Sapien. >> >> >> Martin Page >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: J'accuse From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 05:15:25 EDT Hi Geof, The events unfolding in Italy are reminiscent of the persecution of Galileo Galilei in 1632 for suggesting that the earth might go round the sun. He was shown the instruments of torture to persuade him otherwise. Lets hope things do not go quite that far. Martin
Hi Geof, 
 
The events unfolding in Italy are reminiscent of the persecution of= Galileo=20 Galilei in 1632 for suggesting that the earth might go round the sun. He= was=20 shown the instruments of torture to persuade him otherwise. Lets hope thin= gs do=20 not go quite that far. 
 
Martin
Subject: Re: J'accuse From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 12:21:13 +0200 Hi, now someone remembered me what was told from Civil defense to someone in l'Aquila the night from 5th to 6th april 2009: it was literally: "state tranquilli, tornate nelle vostre case e bevetevi un bicchiere di Montepulciano D'Abruzzo!" that translated in english is: "don't worry, go back inside homes and have a glass of Montepulciano D'Abruzzo" (wich is a good red wine). Is this the proper way to protect lifes? No suprise that somebody wants someone else in prison. But PLEASE don't misunderstand, what do this is politic and corrupted science, not the church... (at least in this case). Mauro Il 05/07/2010 11:15, Tangazazen@....... ha scritto: > Hi Geof, > > The events unfolding in Italy are reminiscent of the persecution of Galileo > Galilei in 1632 for suggesting that the earth might go round the sun. He > was shown the instruments of torture to persuade him otherwise. Lets hope > things do not go quite that far. > > Martin > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: J'accuse From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 07:13:53 EDT Hi, Thanks Mauro, I shall look out for a bottle of ' Montepulciano D'Aruzzo ' in my local off-licence Cin cin or is it Salute, I was never any good at Italian! Martin
Hi,
  
   Thanks Mauro, I shall look out for a bottle of ' Montepu= lciano=20 D'Aruzzo ' in my local off-licence
 
Cin cin or is it Salute, I was never any good at Italian! 
 
Martin
Subject: Honshu quake 7.4.10 From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 08:56:47 -0500 It has been very quiet here in southern Indiana for about four days. When I saw the USGS list of quakes yesterday, I thought I would see a good record. I worked it up and was disappointed so I didn't post it until today after I saw Bob's (Locust Valley). If you look prior to the arrival of the P wave, there is something there in the frequency of .05 hz (in the one min 40 sec prior to P arrival for Honshu) that appears directional. (e.g. the peak is greater on the E-W than on the N-S and is NOT present on the vertical). The Texas posts show a peak on the vertical too. Since this peak is not synchonous with the S wave arrival from Honshu, is it wish to suppose this is another quake since the Texas stations show a peak on the vertical and probably are closer to it? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re :Honshu quake 7.4.10 From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:09:59 -0400 My horizontal sensors respond to tilts caused by moving around in the rooms above. I believe the wiggle prior to the P-wave is such an artifact. Bob from Locust Valley My horizontal sensors respond to tilts caused by moving around in the rooms above. I believe the wiggle prior to the P-wave is such an artifact.

Bob from Locust Valley Subject: Re: Honshu quake 7.4.10 From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 11:05:42 -0400 My horizontal sensors respond to tilts caused by moving around in the rooms above. I believe the wiggle prior to the P-wave is such an artifact. Bob from Locust Valley On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Thomas Dick wrote: It has been very quiet here in southern Indiana for about four days. When I saw the USGS list of quakes yesterday, I thought I would see a good record. I worked it up and was disappointed so I didn't post it until today after I saw Bob's (Locust Valley). If you look prior to the arrival of the P wave, there is something there in the frequency of .05 hz (in the one min 40 sec prior to P arrival for Honshu) that appears directional. (e.g. the peak is greater on the E-W than on the N-S and is NOT present on the vertical). The Texas posts show a peak on the vertical too. Since this peak is not synchonous with the S wave arrival from Honshu, is it wish to suppose this is another quake since the Texas stations show a peak on the vertical and probably are closer to it? My horizontal sensors respond to tilts caused by moving around in the rooms above. I believe the wiggle prior to the P-wave is such an artifact.

Bob from Locust Valley

On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Thomas Dick <dickthomas01@.............> wrote:
It has been very quiet here in southern Indiana for about four days. When I saw the USGS list of quakes yesterday, I thought I would see a good record. I worked it up and was disappointed so I didn't post it until today after I saw Bob's (Locust Valley). If you look prior to the arrival of the P wave, there is something there in the frequency of .05 hz (in the one min 40 sec prior to P arrival for Honshu) that appears directional. (e.g. the peak is greater on the E-W than on the N-S and is NOT present on the vertical). The Texas posts show a peak on the vertical too. Since this peak is not synchonous with the S wave arrival from Honshu, is it wish to suppose this is another quake since the Texas stations show a peak on the vertical and probably are closer to it? Subject: I can't find Recent Quakes for N. California from the USGS From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:11:07 -0700 Hi- I wonder if any other PSN'ers from Northern California are having trouble downloading N. Calif. quake list from USGS in the Winquake program to process quakes? When I go to EVENT REPORT, then NETWORK REPORT one of my selections is http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html (N. Cal Events). When I select it, nothing downloads. This quit working about a month ago and I wonder if the N. Cal. service was discontinued or if the address has changed? I would appreciate any thoughts or help. Sorry to bother all of you who are not in this region. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: I can't find Recent Quakes for N. California from the USGS site anymore From: "Keith Payea" kpayea@.............. Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 09:18:07 -0700 Hi George: I check the web page to see the maps and lists every morning. About a month ago they changed the format of the web page. Maybe that feature got lost when they did. Editorial comment: The new pages are "prettier", but not as useful. They used to have the map plus the top 30 earthquakes listed on the same page. Now you have a map or a list, but not both together. Keith -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of George Bush Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 9:11 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: I can't find Recent Quakes for N. California from the USGS site anymore Hi- I wonder if any other PSN'ers from Northern California are having trouble downloading N. Calif. quake list from USGS in the Winquake program to process quakes? When I go to EVENT REPORT, then NETWORK REPORT one of my selections is http://quake.wr.usgs.gov/recenteqs/Quakes/quakes0.html (N. Cal Events). When I select it, nothing downloads. This quit working about a month ago and I wonder if the N. Cal. service was discontinued or if the address has changed? I would appreciate any thoughts or help. Sorry to bother all of you who are not in this region. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Re :Honshu quake 7.4.10 From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 14:39:44 -0500 Bob McClure wrote: > My horizontal sensors respond to tilts caused by moving around in the > rooms above. I believe the wiggle prior to the P-wave is such an artifact. > > Bob from Locust Valley Yes Bob, your data "seems" to look that way I agree ... e but look at mine ..... a and then .... x and .... v Well, you are right, I can't seem to find it on the professional equipment .... a __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Windows 7 From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 14:37:24 -0500 Will there be any problems running present WinSDR and Winquake with Windows 7? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Windows 7 From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 14:23:28 -0700 Tom, I have not received any reports of problems with either program running on Windows 7. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 7/9/2010 12:37 PM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Will there be any problems running present WinSDR and Winquake with > Windows 7? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: The New 64 bit pcs From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2010 13:07:48 -0700 Hello Psn, are any of you able to verify the following: On the new 64 bit machines you need 8GB of ram to get only 1Gb of 64 bit word space ? You also need a motherboard with a capacity of greater than what you want to use. Like if you want to have full use of 8GB your motherboard will have to handle like 12GB or 16Gb or some of your ram like up to 1GB is lost to hardware mapping. You also need a 64 OS like vista 64 or later. Like 8GB plus 1GB video would be 9GB total ??? Like 8GB RAM plus 1GB video Plus whatever is for hardware is quite a bit more than 8GB ?? Does any of this make sense ? So if you want a full 8GB of ram you need to buy a 16GB motherboard ?? Also, DDR3 is the latest greatest RAM ? I had problems recently relating to enough ram and thats what provoked this investigation. It seems to me if you look at prices a full blown machine today is about the same as a full blown machine of yesterday but several times faster ? Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Windows 7 From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 10:51:43 -0700 I'm running Winquake on a 10-inch Gateway LT2140u (N450 Intel Atom processer) running Windows 7 and it installed and ran just fine. I have not tried installing Winsdr because there are no serial ports, just USB 2.0 ports. I was wondering if anybody has tried using a Winsdr board via a USB to Serial converter? If you have can you post the brand name you selected. Thanks-- Steve Hammond -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Cochrane Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:23 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Windows 7 Tom, I have not received any reports of problems with either program running on Windows 7. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 7/9/2010 12:37 PM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Will there be any problems running present WinSDR and Winquake with > Windows 7? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Windows 7 From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Hi Steve=0AI am running Winsdr thru a serial to usb converter currently. Th= e problem is I =0Aam away from home and can't tell you the brand. I think I= went to Frys or Best =0Abuy. I have had some=A0infrequent communication / = no data read error messages show =0Aup in my log file but I can't specify t= he source. =0A=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Stephen Hammond =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Mon, July 12, 2010 10:51:43= AM=0ASubject: RE: Windows 7=0A=0AI'm running Winquake on a 10-inch Gateway= LT2140u (N450 Intel Atom=0Aprocesser) running Windows 7 and it installed a= nd ran just fine. I have not=0Atried installing Winsdr because there are no= serial ports, just USB 2.0=0Aports. I was wondering if anybody has tried u= sing a Winsdr board via a USB=0Ato Serial converter? If you have can you po= st the brand name you selected. =0A=0AThanks-- Steve Hammond=0A=0A-----Orig= inal Message-----=0AFrom: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-reques= t@............... On=0ABehalf Of Larry Cochrane=0ASent: Saturday, July 10, = 2010 2:23 PM=0ATo: psn-l@......................... Re: Windows 7=0A=0ATom,= =0A=0AI have not received any reports of problems with either program runni= ng on=0AWindows 7.=0A=0ARegards,=0ALarry Cochrane=0ARedwood City, PSN=0A=0A= On 7/9/2010 12:37 PM, Thomas Dick wrote:=0A> Will there be any problems run= ning present WinSDR and Winquake with=0A> Windows 7?=0A> __________________= ________________________________________=0A>=0A> Public Seismic Network Mai= ling List (PSN-L)=0A>=0A> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM with=0A> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe=0A> Se= e http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A>=0A_____= _____________________________________________________=0A=0APublic Seismic N= etwork Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEI= SMICNET.COM with =0Athe body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe= =0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A=0A_= _________________________________________________________=0A=0APublic Seism= ic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST= @.............. with =0Athe body of the message (first line only): unsubscr= ibe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A
=0A
Hi Steve
=0A
I am running Winsd= r thru a serial to usb converter currently. The problem is I am away from h= ome and can't tell you the brand. I think I went to Frys or Best buy. I hav= e had some infrequent communication / no data read error messages show= up in my log file but I can't specify the source.
 
Regards<= BR>Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com =0A

=0A

= =0A
From: Stephen Hammond <shammon1@.............>=
To: psn-l@.............. m
Sent: Mon, July 12, 20= 10 10:51:43 AM
Subject: = RE: Windows 7

I'm running Winquake on a 10-inch Gateway LT214= 0u (N450 Intel Atom
processer) running Windows 7 and it installed and ra= n just fine. I have not
tried installing Winsdr because there are no ser= ial ports, just USB 2.0
ports. I was wondering if anybody has tried usin= g a Winsdr board via a USB
to Serial converter? If you have can you post= the brand name you selected.

Thanks-- Steve Hammond

-----Or= iginal Message-----
From: psn-l-request@............ com [mailto:psn-l-request@..............] On
Behalf Of Larry = Cochrane
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:23 PM
To: psn-l@webtron= ics.com
Subject: Re: Windows 7

Tom,

I have not receive= d any reports of problems with either program running on
Windows 7.
<= BR>Regards,
Larry Cochrane
Redwood City, PSN

On 7/9/2010 12:37= PM, Thomas Dick wrote:
> Will there be any problems running present = WinSDR and Winquake with
> Windows 7?
> _______________________= ___________________________________
>
> Public Seismic Network = Mailing List (PSN-L)
>
> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
> the body of the messa= ge (first line only): unsubscribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maill= ist.html for more information.
>
_________________________________= _________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L= )

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@SEISMI= CNET.COM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscrib= e
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

= __________________________________________________________

Public Se= ismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the mes= sage (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://ww= w.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: RE: Windows 7 From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 18:15:27 +0000 Hi, I use Windows 2000 with USB serial converter. There are no problem so far for me using that setup. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-07-12 at 10:51 -0700, Stephen Hammond wrote: > I'm running Winquake on a 10-inch Gateway LT2140u (N450 Intel Atom > processer) running Windows 7 and it installed and ran just fine. I have n= ot > tried installing Winsdr because there are no serial ports, just USB 2.0 > ports. I was wondering if anybody has tried using a Winsdr board via a US= B > to Serial converter? If you have can you post the brand name you selected= ..=20 >=20 > Thanks-- Steve Hammond >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On > Behalf Of Larry Cochrane > Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:23 PM > To: psn-l@.............. > Subject: Re: Windows 7 >=20 > Tom, >=20 > I have not received any reports of problems with either program running o= n > Windows 7. >=20 > Regards, > Larry Cochrane > Redwood City, PSN >=20 > On 7/9/2010 12:37 PM, Thomas Dick wrote: > > Will there be any problems running present WinSDR and Winquake with > > Windows 7? > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Windows 7 From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:17:51 -0400 I am now using a new PC, an eMachines EZ1601-01 All-in-One Desktop with Intel=AE Atom=99 N270 Processor ($406 from Amazon). The operating system is Windows XP. My USB-to-serial adaptor was purchased from USBGear, sku no. 765288, price $11.33 plus $5.89 shipping. It contains an FTDI chip. I use a Dataq DI-154 for data acquisition. I have had no problems at all with this setup, and I see no reason why SDR would not work OK as well. There are drivers available for Windows 7 for the adapter. I like the PC because of its low power consumption and conduction/convection coolling (no fan noise)= . It handles both data acquisition and Web surfing very well. Bob =A0 I am now using a new PC, an eMachines EZ1601-01 All-in-One Desktop with= Intel=AE Atom=99 N270 Processor ($406 from Amazon). The operating system i= s Windows XP. My USB-to-serial adaptor was purchased from USBGear, sku no. = 765288, price $11.33 plus $5.89 shipping. It contains an FTDI chip. I use a= Dataq DI-154 for data acquisition. I have had no problems at all with this= setup, and I see no reason why SDR would not work OK as well. There are dr= ivers available for Windows 7 for the adapter. I like the PC because of its= low power consumption and conduction/convection coolling (no fan noise). I= t handles both data acquisition and Web surfing very well.

Bob
Subject: Re: Windows 7 From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 19:43:10 -0500 Thanks Larry. I run XP Pro right now on my whole network (five desk models and three laptops). I was wondering, if the earthquake computer should die, would I have any problems using Windows 7 with your programs. I really like my network (and I like your programs even more). All computers talks to each other without problems and I can talk to ithe earthquake computer from any WiFi site. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Windows 7 From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:17:11 -0700 Thanks for the respones. I'll order the USBGear listed below and give it a try. -- Steve -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Bob McClure Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:18 PM To: psn-l Subject: Re: Windows 7 I am now using a new PC, an eMachines EZ1601-01 All-in-One Desktop with IntelR AtomT N270 Processor ($406 from Amazon). The operating system is Windows XP. My USB-to-serial adaptor was purchased from USBGear, sku no. 765288, price $11.33 plus $5.89 shipping. It contains an FTDI chip. I use a Dataq DI-154 for data acquisition. I have had no problems at all with this setup, and I see no reason why SDR would not work OK as well. There are drivers available for Windows 7 for the adapter. I like the PC because of its low power consumption and conduction/convection coolling (no fan noise). It handles both data acquisition and Web surfing very well. Bob Message
Thanks=20 for the respones. I'll order the USBGear listed below and give it a try. = --=20 Steve
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of Bob McClure
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 1:18=20 PM
To: psn-l
Subject: Re: Windows=20 7

  I am now using a new PC, an eMachines = EZ1601-01=20 All-in-One Desktop with Intel® Atom™ N270 Processor ($406 = from Amazon). The=20 operating system is Windows XP. My USB-to-serial adaptor was purchased = from=20 USBGear, sku no. 765288, price $11.33 plus $5.89 shipping. It contains = an FTDI=20 chip. I use a Dataq DI-154 for data acquisition. I have had no = problems at all=20 with this setup, and I see no reason why SDR would not work OK as = well. There=20 are drivers available for Windows 7 for the adapter. I like the PC = because of=20 its low power consumption and conduction/convection coolling (no fan = noise).=20 It handles both data acquisition and Web surfing very=20 well.

Bob
Subject: RE: Windows 7 From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 00:54:27 -0700 I think there may be more than one of use using a home network and several different systems and OS's. In the July 2010 issue of Maximumpc page 67 there is an article on LogMeIn software. LogMeIn offers several free downloads and besides allowing you to login via the Internet to your local computer they also offer network management software that allows you to login and manage any system within your local network via a LAN or the Internet. As I am in the processes of fixing my data collection system (the motorola GPS is no loger working correctly) I'm also going to move to a much faster system and will installing LogMeIn on it. My goal is to be able to manage and restart (re-boot) the seismic system which is located in the garage via the Internet or via the homenetwork. This also includes acces via my wireless. Once the datacollection system time issue is resolved I also plan on building two new long period sensors because the current AT1 and AT2 sensors and just not working correctly after having to reduce the boom length to install them in their current locations. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Monday, July 12, 2010 5:43 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Windows 7 Thanks Larry. I run XP Pro right now on my whole network (five desk models and three laptops). I was wondering, if the earthquake computer should die, would I have any problems using Windows 7 with your programs. I really like my network (and I like your programs even more). All computers talks to each other without problems and I can talk to ithe earthquake computer from any WiFi site. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Windows 7 From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 03:59:03 -0700 (PDT) Hi Steve=0AI'm currently using Logmein to manage my sensors. Works great. I= f I can be of =0Aany help let me know.=A0My=A0 data acquisition computer is= a 6 watt Fit-PC running =0AXP=A0( USB inputs). It's=A0about 5"x5"x1.5". Th= e only draw back to this earlier =0Aversion is the RAM is hardwired in. I t= hink its 250mb. I=A0am currently running 8 =0Achannels with Winsdr @ 50=A0s= ps. I have a few (3) sensors that have balancing =0Amotors to maintain sens= or position=A0manually. I bought a serial 8=A0ch=A012 bit ADC =0Acard and s= erial switch card from Weeder Technologies. With these and Logmein I =0Acan= =A0monitor and adjust the sensors remotely.=A0I use a virtual switch contro= l =0Apanel=A0=A0which displays voltages (or other units) and=A0buttons to d= irect the =0Amotors. The software is available thru Weeder Technologies. ..= .. works for me. =0AThe newer Fit-PC's come with WiFi and the ability to ins= tall a solid state=A0HD=A0. =0ARam is 2 gb max,=A0I think. When I get back = into town I plan some long over due =0Asensor maintenance. =0A=0ASorry for = the ramble.=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry =0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Stephen Hammond =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Tue, July 13, 2010 12:54:27= AM=0ASubject: RE: Windows 7=0A=0AI think there may be more than one of use= using a home network and=0Aseveral different systems and OS's. In the July= 2010 issue of Maximumpc=0Apage 67 there is an article on LogMeIn software.= LogMeIn offers several=0Afree downloads and besides allowing you to login = via the Internet to=0Ayour local computer they also offer network managemen= t software that=0Aallows you to login and manage any system within your loc= al network via=0Aa LAN or the Internet. As I am in the processes of fixing = my data=0Acollection system (the motorola GPS is no loger working correctly= ) I'm=0Aalso going to move to a much faster system and will installing LogM= eIn=0Aon it. My goal is to be able to manage and restart (re-boot) the seis= mic=0Asystem which is located in the garage via the Internet or via the=0Ah= omenetwork. This also includes acces via my wireless. Once the=0Adatacollec= tion system time issue is resolved I also plan on building two=0Anew long p= eriod sensors because the current AT1 and AT2 sensors and just=0Anot workin= g correctly after having to reduce the boom length to install=0Athem in the= ir current locations. =0A=0ARegards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA
=0A
Hi Steve
=0A
I'm currently usin= g Logmein to manage my sensors. Works great. If I can be of any help let me= know. My  data acquisition computer is a 6 watt Fit-PC running X= P ( USB inputs). It's about 5"x5"x1.5". The only draw back to thi= s earlier version is the RAM is hardwired in. I think its 250mb. I am = currently running 8 channels with Winsdr @ 50 sps. I have a few (3) se= nsors that have balancing motors to maintain sensor position manually.= I bought a serial 8 ch 12 bit ADC card and serial switch card fr= om Weeder Technologies. With these and Logmein I can monitor and adjus= t the sensors remotely. I use a virtual switch control panel &nbs= p;which displays voltages (or other units) and buttons to direct the m= otors. The software is available thru Weeder Technologies. ... works for me= .. The newer Fit-PC's come with WiFi and the ability to install a solid stat= e HD . Ram is 2 gb max, I think. When I get back into town I plan some long over due sensor maintena= nce.
=0A
Sorry for the ramble.
 
Regards
Barry http://= www.seismicvault.com =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0A= From: Stephen Hammond <shammon1@.............>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Tue, July 13, 2010 12:54:27 = AM
Subject: RE: Windows = 7

I think there may be more than one of use using a home netw= ork and
several different systems and OS's. In the July 2010 issue of Ma= ximumpc
page 67 there is an article on LogMeIn software. LogMeIn offers = several
free downloads and besides allowing you to login via the Interne= t to
your local computer they also offer network management software tha= t
allows you to login and manage any system within your local network vi= a
a LAN or the Internet. As I am in the processes of fixing my data
c= ollection system (the motorola GPS is no loger working correctly) I'm
al= so going to move to a much faster system and will installing LogMeIn
on it. My goal is to be able to mana= ge and restart (re-boot) the seismic
system which is located in the gara= ge via the Internet or via the
homenetwork. This also includes acces via= my wireless. Once the
datacollection system time issue is resolved I al= so plan on building two
new long period sensors because the current AT1 = and AT2 sensors and just
not working correctly after having to reduce th= e boom length to install
them in their current locations.

Regard= s, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA

Subject: Search Question From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:53:13 -0500 Hi All. How would I search for earthquake history for a given area or spot, specifically Northern Iraq or Eastern Turkey? The EMSC website does seem to help. Thanks, Jerry
Hi All.
 
How would I search for earthquake history for a given area or spot, = specifically Northern Iraq or Eastern Turkey?  The EMSC website = does seem=20 to help. 
 
Thanks,
Jerry
Subject: Re: Search Question From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 16:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Jerry=0AYou might try:=A0 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eqarchives= /epic/=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__= ______________________________=0AFrom: GPayton =0ATo= : PSN Network List =0ASent: Tue, July 13, 2010 3:53:1= 3 PM=0ASubject: Search Question=0A=0A=0AHi All.=0A=0AHow would I search for= earthquake history for a given area or spot, specifically =0ANorthern Iraq= or Eastern Turkey?=A0 The EMSC website does seem to help.=A0 =0A=0A=0AThan= ks,=0AJerry
=0A
Jerry
=0ARegards=
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com =0A

=0A

= =0A
=0A
=0AFrom: GPayton <gpayton@.............&g= t;
To: PSN Network List = <PSN-L@..............>
Sent:<= /SPAN> Tue, July 13, 2010 3:53:13 PM
Subject: Search Question

=0A= =0A=0A
Hi All.
=0A
 
=0A
How would I search for = earthquake history for a given area or spot, specifically Northern Iraq or = Eastern Turkey?  The EMSC website does seem to help. 
=0A 
=0A
Thanks,
=0A
Jerry
Subject: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 07:22:35 -0700 Hello PSN folks, Below Is A Velocity Sensor i had sitting in the corner for the past few years which has collected a lot of dust. "Please Excuse the Years of dust and, possibly, life forms present" I believe it to be a proper design for motion along the plane of the faces of the two magnets. The poles are N=>S TOP S=>N Bottom I intend the coil to move vertically in this picture. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/100_0516.jpg Do any of you know for sure if this is or is not the correct use of magnet and coil as a sensor ? Please explain your response so I "MIGHT" understand. Best regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 23:49:09 -0400 Geoff. Looks reasonable to me. Based on your photo, see http://bnordgren.org/seismo/magnet1.pdf The voltage in the coil depends on how many wires cut how many magnetic lines how fast. With the magnets arranged as shown, the magnetic lines go from left to right in the top gap and right to left in the bottom gap. And, if the coil wires are going away from you in the top part of the coil, they will be coming towards you in the bottom part. All that means is that as you move the coil up or down, the voltage generated in the wires of the top half of the coil as they cut magnetic lines, will add to the voltage generated in the wires of the bottom half, adding up to give the output voltage proportional to coil velocity you were looking for. Brett At 10:22 AM 7/17/2010, you wrote: >Hello PSN folks, > >Below Is A Velocity Sensor i had sitting >in the corner for the past few years >which has collected a lot of dust. > >"Please Excuse the Years of dust and, possibly, life forms present" > >I believe it to be a proper design >for motion along the plane of the faces >of the two magnets. > >The poles are N=>S TOP > S=>N Bottom > >I intend the coil to move vertically in this picture. > >http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/100_0516.jpg > >Do any of you know for sure if this is >or is not the correct use of magnet and coil >as a sensor ? > >Please explain your response so I "MIGHT" understand. > >Best regards, >geoff > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: First post From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 09:37:41 +0200 Hello psn, This is my first post, and I would like to ask someone to talk me through uploading event data. The Fox island event is still comming through here in France and I would like to try and upload the data. I am using AmaSeis and will open the file in WinQuake, what next? Thanks in advance. Andy. Hello psn,
This is my first post, and I would like to ask someone to tal= k me through uploading event data.
The Fox island event is still comming= through here in France and I would like to try and upload the data. I am u= sing AmaSeis and will open the file in WinQuake, what next? Thanks in advan= ce.
Andy.
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 04:30:39 -0700 Hello Mr. Nordgren; The question I have is thus: Is that coil right for the magnets or, Should it be rectangular in shape with the two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the magnetic flux ? I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enameled wire for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ? The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel. Is 2100 turns enough ? Would it be better if the coil had a copper or iron core ? This would mean a custom coil rectangular instead of circular. I think it may be possible to have two identical coils center tapped in the middle with a single rare earth magnet in the middle between the two coils then you have the right setup for a proper op amp differential circuit. +COIL- NmagnetS +COIL- THE left coil - is connected to right coil + which is then the ground. Left Coil + goes to op amp + and Right coil - goes to op amp - The relative motion is magnet fixed to ground and coil fixed to device. Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left between the coils. Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion. Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns custom wound to be exactly the same. "Which I know is not possible." Close enough for civilian work is all I can expect. As you can tell, I'm not very learned on these affairs. Best regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2010 8:49 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > Geoff. > > Looks reasonable to me. > > Based on your photo, see http://bnordgren.org/seismo/magnet1.pdf > > The voltage in the coil depends on how many wires cut how many > magnetic lines how fast. > > With the magnets arranged as shown, the magnetic lines go from left > to right in the top gap and right to left in the bottom gap. And, if > the coil wires are going away from you in the top part of the coil, > they will be coming towards you in the bottom part. > > All that means is that as you move the coil up or down, the voltage > generated in the wires of the top half of the coil as they cut > magnetic lines, will add to the voltage generated in the wires of the > bottom half, adding up to give the output voltage proportional to > coil velocity you were looking for. > > Brett > > > > At 10:22 AM 7/17/2010, you wrote: > >>Hello PSN folks, >> >>Below Is A Velocity Sensor i had sitting >>in the corner for the past few years >>which has collected a lot of dust. >> >>"Please Excuse the Years of dust and, possibly, life forms present" >> >>I believe it to be a proper design >>for motion along the plane of the faces >>of the two magnets. >> >>The poles are N=>S TOP >> S=>N Bottom >> >>I intend the coil to move vertically in this picture. >> >>http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/100_0516.jpg >> >>Do any of you know for sure if this is >>or is not the correct use of magnet and coil >>as a sensor ? >> >>Please explain your response so I "MIGHT" understand. >> >>Best regards, >>geoff >> >> >>__________________________________________________________ >> >>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >>To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >>of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: First post From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 05:32:33 -0700 Im not sure but think you need Larry to help you here. The upload is simple, you simply prepare your PSN file by setting the comments and sensor data and stuff then re-save the whole psn file in whatever data form as either a cropped file ( always smaller in size ) There is an event email address you send your PSN files to and if it gets posted right it may send you a reply its UPLOAD OK & Thanks message. You must always keep your email account the same or the server will not accept the attachment. If you mess up your machine and need to reload your OS then make sure you have exported all your email accounts to a safe place because if the attachment does not come from the very same account you originally made you will have to talk to Larry to straighten it out again. It is good and reliable uploads only so long as you use your same email account to send the attachment. Goto the PSN file, right click send to, mail recipient. You must also go up to the header stuff and right click send to: to get your addresses or contacts with the events address. I will not post the server address since Im not sure i should. It is all described at another PSN website i believe. Look up [PSN, Redwood City, events] at www.google.com I believe. Gut Luk Comrade. geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Little" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 12:37 AM Subject: First post > Hello psn, > This is my first post, and I would like to ask someone to talk me through > uploading event data. > The Fox island event is still comming through here in France and I would > like to try and upload the data. I am using AmaSeis and will open the file > in WinQuake, what next? Thanks in advance. > Andy. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 13:57:43 -0400 Hi Geoff, At 07:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >Hello Mr. Nordgren; > >The question I have is thus: > >Is that coil right for the magnets or, >Should it be rectangular in shape with the >two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the magnetic flux ? Ideally you want your sensor to be linear. If you move the coil at a constant speed over its mechanical range you would like to see a relatively constant voltage out. You can achieve that in two ways. Have the magnet pole faces large enough that all the coil wires stay well within the magnetic region, or alternatively, make them small enough that all the magnetic lines stay within the region filled with coil wires. When you have the edges of the magnetic field moving across the outside or inside edges of the coil, the linearity suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about too much. >I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enameled wire >for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ? > >The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel. > >Is 2100 turns enough ? I guess the question would have to be, enough for what? It all depends on how sensitive you plan to make your signal detection circuit--that is, how much amplifier gain do you plan to have and if you are connecting to an A/D device, what is its sensitivity? In general, I would try to start with the smallest wire and the largest number of turns I could easily manage. Coil resistance of several K Ohms wouldn't be unreasonable. The coil Larry sells I believe has 10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms. >Would it be better if the coil had a copper or iron core ? Definitely no. Iron would "suck in" the magnetic lines, away from the wires where you want them to be. Copper, unless it made a complete loop, wouldn't do much since it wouldn't be in the magnetic field, certainly nothing particularly helpful. >This would mean a custom coil rectangular instead of circular. Possibly you'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular coil and rectangular magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work reasonably well for what you are trying to do. >I think it may be possible to have two identical >coils center tapped in the middle with a single >rare earth magnet in the middle between the two >coils then you have the right setup for >a proper op amp differential circuit. I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that you are wanting to connect one output to each of the two inputs of an op amp. If that is what you are thinking about, the problem will be too much gain. Typical op amps have voltage gains of 100's of thousands, or more often, millions. Generally for approximate analyses designers assume that their gain is infinite. That means that extremely tiny input signals (noise) would have the op amp output bouncing between its voltage limits--not very useful. Usually op amps are connected up as single ended amplifiers using a two-resistor feedback circuit, which makes a very nice voltage amplifier. See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf Figure 3. If you do that, one coil will work fine, and by changing the resistor values you can choose the amplifier gain to complement your coil sensitivity. The only advantage I can think of for some kind of differential coil setup is that it might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz hum. Though it probably wouldn't be that hard to connect a differential coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a guitar "hum-bucking" pickup. An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for independent connections to a pair of coils, but they tend to be a lot more expensive and their gain usually can't be adjusted as precisely. See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf Figure 2. >+COIL- NmagnetS +COIL- > >THE left coil - is connected to right coil + >which is then the ground. > >Left Coil + goes to op amp + >and >Right coil - goes to op amp - > >The relative motion is magnet fixed to ground >and coil fixed to device. > >Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left >between the coils. > >Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion. > >Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns >custom wound to be exactly the same. Hope that's a start, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:57:06 -0400 Hi Geoff, That second reference URL should have been: An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for independent connections to a pair of coils, but they tend to be a lot more expensive and their gain usually can't be adjusted as precisely. See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-061.pdf Figure 2. Sorry, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 14:32:24 -0700 Hello- This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances of the San Andreas fault letting-go). I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? From: jzambory@......... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 15:49:45 -0600 Look out, that is the start, you guys are about to fall into the ocean!!! ;-) I have no idea... Jeff On 18 Jul 2010 at 14:32, George Bush wrote: > Hello- > > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the > East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San > Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but > was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! > > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances > of the San Andreas fault letting-go). > > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > > George Bush > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > 38.73775N, 123.48882W > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: First post From: Andrew Little little.aa@......... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 23:50:27 +0200 Thanks for the help with the upload, so far so good. Andy. Thanks for the help with the upload, so far so good.
Andy.
Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:58:02 -0500 Hi George, I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question. Yesterday, I received the August issue of EARTH magazine with contained a sort article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru. The article was titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes. If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question as to why a block of the plate might move seismic and another part generate an earthquake. It pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore at the subducting ridge itself. In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the South American Plate. THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have NO technical training in geology or seismology! In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be in play there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows. One might think that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to release; and again it might just lessen the stress. I'd be interested in others opinions. Who knows, I might learn something........Naaaaaa. Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: George Bush To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? Hello- This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances of the San Andreas fault letting-go). I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Hi George,
 
I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question.  = Yesterday, I=20 received the August issue of  EARTH magazine with contained a sort = article=20 about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru.  The article was titled=20 Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes.
 
If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question = as to why=20 a block of the plate might move seismic and another part generate an=20 earthquake.  It pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes = occur=20 inland and not actually off shore at the subducting ridge itself.
 
In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the = seawater,=20 which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted = underneath the=20 South American Plate.  THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I = have NO=20 technical training in geology or seismology!
 
In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be = in play=20 there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows.  = One=20 might think that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to = release;=20 and again it might just lessen the stress.
 
I'd be interested in others opinions.  Who knows, I might = learn=20 something........Naaaaaa.
 
Regards,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George = Bush
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 = 4:32 PM
Subject: What are the = implications of a=20 M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault?

Hello-

This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 = miles=20 west of us out in the
ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas = fault=20 that runs to the
East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs = parallel to=20 the San
Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer = off-line,=20 but
was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that = also was=20 off line!

I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault = will add=20 strain or
relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease = the=20 chances
of the San Andreas fault letting-go).

I would = appreciate=20 any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks.


George = Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W=20 =

__________________________________________________________
Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email = PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:15:31 -0700 (PDT) I keep an eye on this site. nice calif activity=A0display=0Ahttp://earthqua= ke.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US10/32.42.-125.-115.php=0A=A0Rega= rds=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________= ______________=0AFrom: GPayton =0ATo: psn-l@webtroni= cs.com=0ASent: Sun, July 18, 2010 2:58:02 PM=0ASubject: Re: What are the im= plications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas =0Afault?=0A=0A=0AHi George= ,=0A=0AI will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question.=A0 Yesterday, = I received the =0AAugust issue of=A0 EARTH magazine with contained a sort a= rticle about the Nazca =0APlate adjacent to Peru.=A0 The article was titled= Peruvian Plates Move With and =0AWithout Earthquakes.=0A=A0=0AIf I underst= ood the article correctly, it was asking the question as to why a =0Ablock = of the plate might move seismic and another part generate an earthquake.=A0= =0AIt pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and no= t =0Aactually off shore at the subducting ridge itself.=0A=0AIn humble opin= ion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which =0Awould b= e less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the South = =0AAmerican Plate.=A0 THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have NO tec= hnical =0Atraining in geology or seismology!=0A=0AIn regard to your questio= n, I would think the same process "may" be in play =0Athere and there may o= r may not be a direct interaction, who knows.=A0 One might =0Athink that jo= stling a already stressed block might cause it to release; and =0Aagain it = might just lessen the stress.=0A=0AI'd be interested in others opinions.=A0= Who knows, I might learn =0Asomething........Naaaaaa.=0A=0ARegards,=0AJerr= y=0A=0A________________________________=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- = =0A>From: George Bush =0A>To: psn-l@.............. =0A>Sent: Sunday, July 1= 8, 2010 4:32 PM=0A>Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near = the San Andreas fault?=0A>=0A>Hello-=0A>=0A>This morning we had a M2.8 quak= e about 4 miles west of us out in the =0A>ocean and about 5 miles from the = San Andreas fault that runs to the =0A>East of us. It was on a minor fault = that runs parallel to the San =0A>Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquis= ition computer off-line, but =0A>was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my = drum recorder that also was off line!=0A>=0A>I am wondering if the movement= of the minor fault will add strain or =0A>relieve strain on the San Andrea= s fault (add or decrease the chances =0A>of the San Andreas fault letting-g= o).=0A>=0A>I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN= folks.=0A>=0A>=0A>George Bush=0A>Sea Ranch, CA, USA=0A>38.73775N, 123.4888= 2W =0A>=0A>__________________________________________________________=0A>= =0A>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A>=0A>To leave this list e= mail PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with =0A>the body of the message (first l= ine only): unsubscribe=0A>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for m= ore information.=0A>
=0A
I keep an eye on this site. nice calif a= ctivity display
=0A
http://earthquake.usgs.= gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US10/32.42.-125.-115.php
 Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: GPayton <gpayton@uspayto= ns.com>
To: psn-l@web= tronics.com
Sent: Sun, J= uly 18, 2010 2:58:02 PM
Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas= fault?

=0A=0A=0A
Hi George,
=0A
=  
=0A
I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question.&n= bsp; Yesterday, I received the August issue of  EARTH magazine with co= ntained a sort article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru.  The ar= ticle was titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes.
=0A
 
=0A
If I understood the article cor= rectly, it was asking the question as to why a block of the plate might mov= e seismic and another part generate an earthquake.  It pointed out tha= t the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore a= t the subducting ridge itself.
=0A
 
=0A
In humble o= pinion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which would b= e less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the South A= merican Plate.  THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have NO tech= nical training in geology or seismology!
=0A
 
=0A
I= n regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be in play = there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows.  On= e might think that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to rele= ase; and again it might just lessen the stress.
=0A
 
= =0A
I'd be interested in others opinions.  Who knows, I might lear= n something........Naaaaaa.
=0A
 
=0A
Regards,
= =0A
Jerry
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
----- Original = Message -----
=0A=0A= =0A
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 = PM
=0A
Subject: What are the imp= lications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault?
=0A

Hello-

This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us o= ut in the
ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs = to the
East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the Sa= n
Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but=
was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was = off line!

I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add= strain or
relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the= chances
of the San Andreas fault letting-go).

I would appreciat= e any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks.


George Bu= sh
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W

_________________= _________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mai= ling List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............. OM with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
S= ee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:16:55 -0700 Here is the preamp. I was going to place it right at the geophone. The two exact coils will change in step with temperature to keep a stable DC baseline. Minimal drift. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg Any reason this should not be right ? Will Larry sell only the coils ? I might get two to try my ideas. I looked into getting ten wound but the company was outragious in its (retooling fees) It seems they cant simply do it even tho they wind the things for a living. Thanks for your response. Best Regards, geoff PS: if PSN had a binary news server. we could post any kind of file for people to have/look at ? Could someone create a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn] news group, I understand there is a complex process but the creation is free and almost all ISP have one as part of their service. I have tried to understand the process but like Linux OS I cant understand it. I have tried Linux several times but cant make it functional. Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it to be functional. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > Hi Geoff, > > At 07:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >>Hello Mr. Nordgren; >> >>The question I have is thus: >> >>Is that coil right for the magnets or, >>Should it be rectangular in shape with the >>two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the magnetic flux ? > > Ideally you want your sensor to be linear. If you move the coil at a > constant speed over its mechanical range you would like to see a > relatively constant voltage out. You can achieve that in two > ways. Have the magnet pole faces large enough that all the coil > wires stay well within the magnetic region, or alternatively, make > them small enough that all the magnetic lines stay within the region > filled with coil wires. When you have the edges of the magnetic > field moving across the outside or inside edges of the coil, the > linearity suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about too much. > >>I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enameled wire >>for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ? >> >>The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel. >> >>Is 2100 turns enough ? > > I guess the question would have to be, enough for what? It all > depends on how sensitive you plan to make your signal detection > circuit--that is, how much amplifier gain do you plan to have and if > you are connecting to an A/D device, what is its sensitivity? In > general, I would try to start with the smallest wire and the largest > number of turns I could easily manage. Coil resistance of several K > Ohms wouldn't be unreasonable. The coil Larry sells I believe has > 10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms. > >>Would it be better if the coil had a copper or iron core ? > > Definitely no. Iron would "suck in" the magnetic lines, away from > the wires where you want them to be. Copper, unless it made a > complete loop, wouldn't do much since it wouldn't be in the magnetic > field, certainly nothing particularly helpful. > >>This would mean a custom coil rectangular instead of circular. > > Possibly you'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular coil > and rectangular magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work > reasonably well for what you are trying to do. > >>I think it may be possible to have two identical >>coils center tapped in the middle with a single >>rare earth magnet in the middle between the two >>coils then you have the right setup for >>a proper op amp differential circuit. > > I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that you are wanting to connect > one output to each of the two inputs of an op amp. If that is what > you are thinking about, the problem will be too much gain. Typical > op amps have voltage gains of 100's of thousands, or more often, > millions. Generally for approximate analyses designers assume that > their gain is infinite. That means that extremely tiny input signals > (noise) would have the op amp output bouncing between its voltage > limits--not very useful. > > Usually op amps are connected up as single ended amplifiers using a > two-resistor feedback circuit, which makes a very nice voltage amplifier. > > See: > http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf Figure 3. > > If you do that, one coil will work fine, and by changing the resistor > values you can choose the amplifier gain to complement your coil > sensitivity. The only advantage I can think of for some kind of > differential coil setup is that it might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz > hum. Though it probably wouldn't be that hard to connect a > differential coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a guitar > "hum-bucking" pickup. > > An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for independent > connections to a pair of coils, but they tend to be a lot more > expensive and their gain usually can't be adjusted as precisely. > > See: > http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf Figure 2. > >>+COIL- NmagnetS +COIL- >> >>THE left coil - is connected to right coil + >>which is then the ground. >> >>Left Coil + goes to op amp + >>and >>Right coil - goes to op amp - >> >>The relative motion is magnet fixed to ground >>and coil fixed to device. >> >>Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left >>between the coils. >> >>Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion. >> >>Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns >>custom wound to be exactly the same. > > Hope that's a start, > Brett > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 16:30:27 -0700 Hello Mr. Bush; I live 400 miles away to the EAST of LA and the quake in 1994 rattled things all around here. Small quakes below like 5.0 are very common. I would not worry about one small quake. But you can be sure, CA will one day have a big one. They have charts (USGS) at places on the internet which show research into high stress areas and places like San Bernardino area is under great stress now or so they believe. Washington State, Nevada, They find high stresses where faults have not moved in a long time. I suggest you research stress/strain as it relates to causing quakes. Or so I understand. Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 2:32 PM Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? > Hello- > > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the > East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San > Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but > was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! > > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances > of the San Andreas fault letting-go). > > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > > George Bush > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > 38.73775N, 123.48882W > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Hi Geoff=0AIf you are measuring velocity not displacement there shouldn't b= e any =0Atemperature affects except maybe the electronics. There =A0was a p= ost awile back =0Awith a link to Ebay=A0for a coil winding gismo for <$20. = I'll see if=A0I can find =0Athe link.=A0=A0Regards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.sei= smicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Geoff= rey =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Sun, July 18, = 2010 4:16:55 PM=0ASubject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?=0A=0AHere is the = preamp.=0AI was going to place it right at the geophone.=0AThe two exact co= ils will change in step=0Awith temperature to keep a stable DC=0Abaseline. = Minimal drift.=0A=0Ahttp://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg=0A=0AAny reaso= n this should not be right ?=0A=0AWill Larry sell only the coils ?=0AI migh= t get two to try my ideas.=0A=0AI looked into getting ten wound but the com= pany=0Awas outragious in its (retooling fees)=0AIt seems they cant simply d= o it even tho they=0Awind the things for a living.=0A=0AThanks for your res= ponse.=0A=0ABest Regards,=0Ageoff=0A=0APS: if PSN had a binary news server.= =0A=A0 =A0 we could post any kind of file=0A=A0 =A0 for people to have/look= at ?=0A=A0 =A0 Could someone create a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn]=0A=A0 =A0= news group, I understand there is a complex process=0A=A0 =A0 but the crea= tion is free and almost all ISP have=0A=A0 =A0 one as part of their service= .. I have tried to understand=0A=A0 =A0 the process but like Linux OS I cant= understand it.=0A=A0 =A0 I have tried Linux several times but cant make it= functional.=0A=A0 =A0 Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it to be f= unctional.=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" =0ATo: =0ASent: Sunday, July 18, 201= 0 10:57 AM=0ASubject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?=0A=0A=0A> Hi Geoff,=0A= > =0A> At 07:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote:=0A>> Hello Mr. Nordgren;=0A>> =0A>= > The question I have is thus:=0A>> =0A>> Is that coil right for the magnet= s or,=0A>> Should it be rectangular in shape with the=0A>> two vertical sid= es of the rectangle outside the magnetic flux ?=0A> =0A> Ideally you want y= our sensor to be linear.=A0 If you move the coil at a constant =0A>speed ov= er its mechanical range you would like to see a relatively constant =0A>vol= tage out.=A0 You can achieve that in two ways.=A0 Have the magnet pole face= s =0A>large enough that all the coil wires stay well within the magnetic re= gion, or =0A>alternatively, make them small enough that all the magnetic li= nes stay within =0A>the region filled with coil wires.=A0 When you have the= edges of the magnetic =0A>field moving across the outside or inside edges = of the coil, the linearity =0A>suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry = about too much.=0A> =0A>> I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S)= copper enameled wire=0A>> for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ?=0A>> =0A>> The 2= 100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel.=0A>> =0A>> Is= 2100 turns enough ?=0A> =0A> I guess the question would have to be, enough= for what?=A0 It all depends on how =0A>sensitive you plan to make your sig= nal detection circuit--that is, how much =0A>amplifier gain do you plan to = have and if you are connecting to an A/D device, =0A>what is its sensitivit= y?=A0 In general, I would try to start with the smallest =0A>wire and the l= argest number of turns I could easily manage.=A0 Coil resistance of =0A>sev= eral K Ohms wouldn't be unreasonable.=A0 The coil Larry sells I believe has= =0A>10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms.=0A> =0A>> Would it be better if the co= il had a copper or iron core ?=0A> =0A> Definitely no.=A0 Iron would "suck = in" the magnetic lines, away from the wires =0A>where you want them to be.= =A0 Copper, unless it made a complete loop, wouldn't do =0A>much since it w= ouldn't be in the magnetic field, certainly nothing particularly =0A>helpfu= l.=0A> =0A>> This would mean a custom coil rectangular instead of circular.= =0A> =0A> Possibly you'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular c= oil and =0A>rectangular magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work re= asonably well for =0A>what you are trying to do.=0A> =0A>> I think it may b= e possible to have two identical=0A>> coils center tapped in the middle wit= h a single=0A>> rare earth magnet in the middle between the two=0A>> coils = then you have the right setup for=0A>> a proper op amp differential circuit= ..=0A> =0A> I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that you are wanting to conn= ect one output =0A>to each of the two inputs of an op amp.=A0 If that is wh= at you are thinking about, =0A>the problem will be too much gain.=A0 Typica= l op amps have voltage gains of 100's =0A>of thousands, or more often, mill= ions.=A0 Generally for approximate analyses =0A>designers assume that their= gain is infinite.=A0 That means that extremely tiny =0A>input signals (noi= se) would have the op amp output bouncing between its voltage =0A>limits--n= ot very useful.=0A> =0A> Usually op amps are connected up as single ended a= mplifiers using a =0A>two-resistor feedback circuit, which makes a very nic= e voltage amplifier.=0A> =0A> See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-fi= les/tutorials/MT-032.pdf=A0 Figure =0A>3.=0A> =0A> If you do that, one coil= will work fine, and by changing the resistor values =0A>you can choose the= amplifier gain to complement your coil sensitivity.=A0 The only =0A>advant= age I can think of for some kind of differential coil setup is that it =0A>= might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz hum.=A0 Though it probably wouldn't be t= hat =0A>hard to connect a differential coil to a single-ended amplifier, so= rt of like a =0A>guitar "hum-bucking" pickup.=0A> =0A> An instrumentation a= mplifier *would* allow for independent connections to a =0A>pair of coils, = but they tend to be a lot more expensive and their gain usually =0A>can't b= e adjusted as precisely.=0A> =0A> See: http://www.analog.com/static/importe= d-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf=A0 Figure =0A>2.=0A> =0A>> +COIL-=A0 NmagnetS = +COIL-=0A>> =0A>> THE left coil - is connected to right coil +=0A>> which i= s then the ground.=0A>> =0A>> Left Coil + goes to op amp +=0A>> and=0A>> Ri= ght coil - goes to op amp -=0A>> =0A>> The relative motion is magnet fixed = to ground=0A>> and coil fixed to device.=0A>> =0A>> Coil is stable and magn= et moves right and left=0A>> between the coils.=0A>> =0A>> Possibly +/- 2mm= of range of motion.=0A>> =0A>> Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns=0A>> cu= stom wound to be exactly the same.=0A> =0A> Hope that's a start,=0A> Brett= =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> _______________________________________________________= ___=0A> =0A> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A> =0A> To leave = this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the =0A>messa= ge (first line only): unsubscribe=0A> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillis= t.html for more information.=0A> =0A_______________________________________= ___________________=0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0AT= o leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the = =0Amessage (first line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/m= aillist.html for more information.=0A
=0A
Hi Geoff
=0A
If you are measuri= ng velocity not displacement there shouldn't be any temperature affects exc= ept maybe the electronics. There  was a post awile back with a link to= Ebay for a coil winding gismo for <$20. I'll see if I can fin= d the link.  
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com = =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Geoffrey &l= t;gmvoeth@...........>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 4:16:55 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?

Here i= s the preamp.
I was going to place it right at the geophone.
The two = exact coils will change in step
with temperature to keep a stable DC
= baseline. Minimal drift.

http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg
Any reason this should not be right ?

Will Larry sell only the = coils ?
I might get two to try my ideas.

I looked into getting te= n wound but the company
was outragious in its (retooling fees)
It see= ms they cant simply do it even tho they
wind the things for a living.
Thanks for your response.

Best Regards,
geoff

PS: if = PSN had a binary news server.
    we could post any kind of file
&nb= sp;   for people to have/look at ?
    Could someone crea= te a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn]
    news group, I understand t= here is a complex process
    but the creation is free and alm= ost all ISP have
    one as part of their service. I have trie= d to understand
    the process but like Linux OS I cant under= stand it.
    I have tried Linux several times but cant make i= t functional.
    Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it= to be functional.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgre= n" <brett3nt@.............>
To: <psn-l@webtro= nics.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?


> Hi Geoff,
>
> At 0= 7:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote:
>> Hello Mr. Nordgren;
>> <= BR>>> The question I have is thus:
>>
>> Is that c= oil right for the magnets or,
>> Should it be rectangular in shape= with the
>> two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the magne= tic flux ?
>
> Ideally you want your sensor to be linear. = ; If you move the coil at a constant speed over its mechanical range you wo= uld like to see a relatively constant voltage out.  You can achieve th= at in two ways.  Have the magnet pole faces large enough that all the = coil wires stay well within the magnetic region, or alternatively, make the= m small enough that all the magnetic lines stay within the region filled wi= th coil wires.  When you have the edges of the magnetic field moving a= cross the outside or inside edges of the coil, the linearity suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about too much.
>
&g= t;> I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enamele= d wire
>> for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ?
>>
>>= The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel.
>= >
>> Is 2100 turns enough ?
>
> I guess the quest= ion would have to be, enough for what?  It all depends on how sensitiv= e you plan to make your signal detection circuit--that is, how much amplifi= er gain do you plan to have and if you are connecting to an A/D device, wha= t is its sensitivity?  In general, I would try to start with the small= est wire and the largest number of turns I could easily manage.  Coil = resistance of several K Ohms wouldn't be unreasonable.  The coil Larry= sells I believe has 10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms.
>
>> W= ould it be better if the coil had a copper or iron core ?
>
> Definitely no.  Iron would "suck in" the magnetic lines, awa= y from the wires where you want them to be.  Copper, unless it made a = complete loop, wouldn't do much since it wouldn't be in the magnetic field,= certainly nothing particularly helpful.
>
>> This would me= an a custom coil rectangular instead of circular.
>
> Possibly= you'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular coil and rectangula= r magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work reasonably well for what= you are trying to do.
>
>> I think it may be possible to h= ave two identical
>> coils center tapped in the middle with a sing= le
>> rare earth magnet in the middle between the two
>> = coils then you have the right setup for
>> a proper op amp differe= ntial circuit.
>
> I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that yo= u are wanting to connect one output to each of the two inputs of an op amp.  If that is what you are thinking about, the problem will be = too much gain.  Typical op amps have voltage gains of 100's of thousan= ds, or more often, millions.  Generally for approximate analyses desig= ners assume that their gain is infinite.  That means that extremely ti= ny input signals (noise) would have the op amp output bouncing between its = voltage limits--not very useful.
>
> Usually op amps are conne= cted up as single ended amplifiers using a two-resistor feedback circuit, w= hich makes a very nice voltage amplifier.
>
> See: http://www.= analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf  Figure 3.
&g= t;
> If you do that, one coil will work fine, and by changing the re= sistor values you can choose the amplifier gain to complement your coil sen= sitivity.  The only advantage I can think of for some kind of differen= tial coil setup is that it might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz hum.  Though it probably wouldn't be that hard to connect a different= ial coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a guitar "hum-bucking" p= ickup.
>
> An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for inde= pendent connections to a pair of coils, but they tend to be a lot more expe= nsive and their gain usually can't be adjusted as precisely.
>
&g= t; See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutor= ials/MT-032.pdf  Figure 2.
>
>> +COIL-  Nmagn= etS +COIL-
>>
>> THE left coil - is connected to right c= oil +
>> which is then the ground.
>>
>> Left C= oil + goes to op amp +
>> and
>> Right coil - goes to op = amp -
>>
>> The relative motion is magnet fixed to groun= d
>> and coil fixed to device.
>>
>> Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left
>> between the coils.
&= gt;>
>> Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion.
>>
&= gt;> Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns
>> custom wound to be = exactly the same.
>
> Hope that's a start,
> Brett
&g= t;
>
>
> _____________________________________________= _____________
>
> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)<= BR>>
> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUES= T@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubs= cribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more informat= ion.
>
__________________________________________________________=

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this li= st email PSN-L-REQUEST@............. OM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See <= A href=3D"http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html" target=3D_blank>http://w= ww.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 17:30:46 -0700 (PDT) Geoff=0A=A0I guess they were a little more expensive than=A0I remembered.= =0Ahttp://http://cgi.ebay.com/Manual-Coil-Winder-Power-Transformer-Winding-= Machine-DI-/360279979429?cmd=3DViewItem&pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=3Ditem= 53e25c35a5=0A=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Geoffrey =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Sun, July 18, 2010 4:16:55 PM=0ASubje= ct: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?=0A=0AHere is the preamp.=0AI was going t= o place it right at the geophone.=0AThe two exact coils will change in step= =0Awith temperature to keep a stable DC=0Abaseline. Minimal drift.=0A=0Ahtt= p://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg=0A=0AAny reason this should not be ri= ght ?=0A=0AWill Larry sell only the coils ?=0AI might get two to try my ide= as.=0A=0AI looked into getting ten wound but the company=0Awas outragious i= n its (retooling fees)=0AIt seems they cant simply do it even tho they=0Awi= nd the things for a living.=0A=0AThanks for your response.=0A=0ABest Regard= s,=0Ageoff=0A=0APS: if PSN had a binary news server.=0A=A0 =A0 we could pos= t any kind of file=0A=A0 =A0 for people to have/look at ?=0A=A0 =A0 Could s= omeone create a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn]=0A=A0 =A0 news group, I understa= nd there is a complex process=0A=A0 =A0 but the creation is free and almost= all ISP have=0A=A0 =A0 one as part of their service. I have tried to under= stand=0A=A0 =A0 the process but like Linux OS I cant understand it.=0A=A0 = =A0 I have tried Linux several times but cant make it functional.=0A=A0 =A0= Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it to be functional.=0A=0A----- = Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" =0ATo= : =0ASent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:57 AM=0ASubject: = Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?=0A=0A=0A> Hi Geoff,=0A> =0A> At 07:30 AM 7/1= 8/2010, you wrote:=0A>> Hello Mr. Nordgren;=0A>> =0A>> The question I have = is thus:=0A>> =0A>> Is that coil right for the magnets or,=0A>> Should it b= e rectangular in shape with the=0A>> two vertical sides of the rectangle ou= tside the magnetic flux ?=0A> =0A> Ideally you want your sensor to be linea= r.=A0 If you move the coil at a constant =0A>speed over its mechanical rang= e you would like to see a relatively constant =0A>voltage out.=A0 You can a= chieve that in two ways.=A0 Have the magnet pole faces =0A>large enough tha= t all the coil wires stay well within the magnetic region, or =0A>alternati= vely, make them small enough that all the magnetic lines stay within =0A>th= e region filled with coil wires.=A0 When you have the edges of the magnetic= =0A>field moving across the outside or inside edges of the coil, the linea= rity =0A>suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about too much.=0A> = =0A>> I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enameled wir= e=0A>> for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ?=0A>> =0A>> The 2100 turns are of ena= mled wire without a heavy coat of enamel.=0A>> =0A>> Is 2100 turns enough ?= =0A> =0A> I guess the question would have to be, enough for what?=A0 It all= depends on how =0A>sensitive you plan to make your signal detection circui= t--that is, how much =0A>amplifier gain do you plan to have and if you are = connecting to an A/D device, =0A>what is its sensitivity?=A0 In general, I = would try to start with the smallest =0A>wire and the largest number of tur= ns I could easily manage.=A0 Coil resistance of =0A>several K Ohms wouldn't= be unreasonable.=A0 The coil Larry sells I believe has =0A>10,000 turns an= d is 9,000 Ohms.=0A> =0A>> Would it be better if the coil had a copper or i= ron core ?=0A> =0A> Definitely no.=A0 Iron would "suck in" the magnetic lin= es, away from the wires =0A>where you want them to be.=A0 Copper, unless it= made a complete loop, wouldn't do =0A>much since it wouldn't be in the mag= netic field, certainly nothing particularly =0A>helpful.=0A> =0A>> This wou= ld mean a custom coil rectangular instead of circular.=0A> =0A> Possibly yo= u'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular coil and =0A>rectangul= ar magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work reasonably well for =0A= >what you are trying to do.=0A> =0A>> I think it may be possible to have tw= o identical=0A>> coils center tapped in the middle with a single=0A>> rare = earth magnet in the middle between the two=0A>> coils then you have the rig= ht setup for=0A>> a proper op amp differential circuit.=0A> =0A> I may be w= rong, but I am suspecting that you are wanting to connect one output =0A>to= each of the two inputs of an op amp.=A0 If that is what you are thinking a= bout, =0A>the problem will be too much gain.=A0 Typical op amps have voltag= e gains of 100's =0A>of thousands, or more often, millions.=A0 Generally fo= r approximate analyses =0A>designers assume that their gain is infinite.=A0= That means that extremely tiny =0A>input signals (noise) would have the op= amp output bouncing between its voltage =0A>limits--not very useful.=0A> = =0A> Usually op amps are connected up as single ended amplifiers using a = =0A>two-resistor feedback circuit, which makes a very nice voltage amplifie= r.=0A> =0A> See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-0= 32.pdf=A0 Figure =0A>3.=0A> =0A> If you do that, one coil will work fine, a= nd by changing the resistor values =0A>you can choose the amplifier gain to= complement your coil sensitivity.=A0 The only =0A>advantage I can think of= for some kind of differential coil setup is that it =0A>might not be as se= nsitive to 60 Hz hum.=A0 Though it probably wouldn't be that =0A>hard to co= nnect a differential coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a =0A>g= uitar "hum-bucking" pickup.=0A> =0A> An instrumentation amplifier *would* a= llow for independent connections to a =0A>pair of coils, but they tend to b= e a lot more expensive and their gain usually =0A>can't be adjusted as prec= isely.=0A> =0A> See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/= MT-032.pdf=A0 Figure =0A>2.=0A> =0A>> +COIL-=A0 NmagnetS +COIL-=0A>> =0A>> = THE left coil - is connected to right coil +=0A>> which is then the ground.= =0A>> =0A>> Left Coil + goes to op amp +=0A>> and=0A>> Right coil - goes to= op amp -=0A>> =0A>> The relative motion is magnet fixed to ground=0A>> and= coil fixed to device.=0A>> =0A>> Coil is stable and magnet moves right and= left=0A>> between the coils.=0A>> =0A>> Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motio= n.=0A>> =0A>> Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns=0A>> custom wound to be e= xactly the same.=0A> =0A> Hope that's a start,=0A> Brett=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A>= __________________________________________________________=0A> =0A> Public= Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A> =0A> To leave this list email PSN= -L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the =0A>message (first line only= ): unsubscribe=0A> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more inf= ormation.=0A> =0A__________________________________________________________= =0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo leave this list e= mail PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the =0Amessage (first li= ne only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mor= e information.=0A
=0A
Geoff
=0A
 I guess they we= re a little more expensive than I remembered.
=0ARegards
Barry
<= SPAN style=3D"COLOR: rgb(64,64,255); TEXT-DECORATION: underline">http://www= ..seismicvault.com =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0A= From: Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 4:16:55 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Que= stion ?

Here is the preamp.
I was going to place it right = at the geophone.
The two exact coils will change in step
with tempera= ture to keep a stable DC
baseline. Minimal drift.

http://gmvoeth.= home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg

Any reason this should not be right ?
<= BR>Will Larry sell only the coils ?
I might get two to try my ideas.
=
I looked into getting ten wound but the company
was outragious in it= s (retooling fees)
It seems they cant simply do it even tho they
wind= the things for a living.

Thanks for your response.

Best Rega= rds,
geoff

PS: if PSN had a binary news server.
    we could post any kind of file
&nb= sp;   for people to have/look at ?
    Could someone crea= te a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn]
    news group, I understand t= here is a complex process
    but the creation is free and alm= ost all ISP have
    one as part of their service. I have trie= d to understand
    the process but like Linux OS I cant under= stand it.
    I have tried Linux several times but cant make i= t functional.
    Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it= to be functional.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgre= n" <brett3nt@.............>
To: <psn-l@webtro= nics.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?


> Hi Geoff,
>
> At 0= 7:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote:
>> Hello Mr. Nordgren;
>> <= BR>>> The question I have is thus:
>>
>> Is that c= oil right for the magnets or,
>> Should it be rectangular in shape= with the
>> two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the magne= tic flux ?
>
> Ideally you want your sensor to be linear. = ; If you move the coil at a constant speed over its mechanical range you wo= uld like to see a relatively constant voltage out.  You can achieve th= at in two ways.  Have the magnet pole faces large enough that all the = coil wires stay well within the magnetic region, or alternatively, make the= m small enough that all the magnetic lines stay within the region filled wi= th coil wires.  When you have the edges of the magnetic field moving a= cross the outside or inside edges of the coil, the linearity suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about too much.
>
&g= t;> I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enamele= d wire
>> for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ?
>>
>>= The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel.
>= >
>> Is 2100 turns enough ?
>
> I guess the quest= ion would have to be, enough for what?  It all depends on how sensitiv= e you plan to make your signal detection circuit--that is, how much amplifi= er gain do you plan to have and if you are connecting to an A/D device, wha= t is its sensitivity?  In general, I would try to start with the small= est wire and the largest number of turns I could easily manage.  Coil = resistance of several K Ohms wouldn't be unreasonable.  The coil Larry= sells I believe has 10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms.
>
>> W= ould it be better if the coil had a copper or iron core ?
>
> Definitely no.  Iron would "suck in" the magnetic lines, awa= y from the wires where you want them to be.  Copper, unless it made a = complete loop, wouldn't do much since it wouldn't be in the magnetic field,= certainly nothing particularly helpful.
>
>> This would me= an a custom coil rectangular instead of circular.
>
> Possibly= you'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular coil and rectangula= r magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work reasonably well for what= you are trying to do.
>
>> I think it may be possible to h= ave two identical
>> coils center tapped in the middle with a sing= le
>> rare earth magnet in the middle between the two
>> = coils then you have the right setup for
>> a proper op amp differe= ntial circuit.
>
> I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that yo= u are wanting to connect one output to each of the two inputs of an op amp.  If that is what you are thinking about, the problem will be = too much gain.  Typical op amps have voltage gains of 100's of thousan= ds, or more often, millions.  Generally for approximate analyses desig= ners assume that their gain is infinite.  That means that extremely ti= ny input signals (noise) would have the op amp output bouncing between its = voltage limits--not very useful.
>
> Usually op amps are conne= cted up as single ended amplifiers using a two-resistor feedback circuit, w= hich makes a very nice voltage amplifier.
>
> See: http://www.= analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf  Figure 3.
&g= t;
> If you do that, one coil will work fine, and by changing the re= sistor values you can choose the amplifier gain to complement your coil sen= sitivity.  The only advantage I can think of for some kind of differen= tial coil setup is that it might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz hum.  Though it probably wouldn't be that hard to connect a different= ial coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a guitar "hum-bucking" p= ickup.
>
> An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for inde= pendent connections to a pair of coils, but they tend to be a lot more expe= nsive and their gain usually can't be adjusted as precisely.
>
&g= t; See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutor= ials/MT-032.pdf  Figure 2.
>
>> +COIL-  Nmagn= etS +COIL-
>>
>> THE left coil - is connected to right c= oil +
>> which is then the ground.
>>
>> Left C= oil + goes to op amp +
>> and
>> Right coil - goes to op = amp -
>>
>> The relative motion is magnet fixed to groun= d
>> and coil fixed to device.
>>
>> Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left
>> between the coils.
&= gt;>
>> Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion.
>>
&= gt;> Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns
>> custom wound to be = exactly the same.
>
> Hope that's a start,
> Brett
&g= t;
>
>
> _____________________________________________= _____________
>
> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)<= BR>>
> To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUES= T@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubs= cribe
> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more informat= ion.
>
__________________________________________________________=

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this li= st email PSN-L-REQUEST@............. OM with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See <= A href=3D"http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html" target=3D_blank>http://w= ww.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 00:56:27 +0000 Hi, It might be a pre-earthquake to a larger earthquake. But only time is going to tell you that. But I wonder why this small earthquake did manage to take your system offline. I try to build my setup in that way that they can at least withstand Mw6.5 earthquake. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-07-18 at 14:32 -0700, George Bush wrote: > Hello- >=20 > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the=20 > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the=20 > East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San=20 > Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but=20 > was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off= line! >=20 > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or=20 > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances=20 > of the San Andreas fault letting-go). >=20 > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. >=20 >=20 > George Bush > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > 38.73775N, 123.48882W=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas From: Mauro Mariotti mariotti@......... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:14:58 +0200 Hello, from far Italy i guess sharing some experience we have here may be useful. Single, spot event usually don't lead to any precursor. Look to event sequences instead. Check for sequence of earthquakes, they have to belong to the same fault system and/or be focused on a constrained area (which can be also rather large, this depends on the seismogenetic structures). Usually dangerous eq sequences follows the seismo structure you have. Check then on the historical records of that area for as back in time you can go and try to see time related patterns. Often the huge ground blocks push to each other and a fault depend on the other, for sure you can find lot of literature about it for your area. Then draw a chart of magnitude of earthquake (Y axis) and time (X axis) and see if magnitude and frequency increase or decrease. Pay much attention if frequency and magnitude stops suddenly. If eq sequence go up in frequency and magnitude, stay in alert. If eq sequence go slowily down in freq. and magnit. probably is only an ew swarm that will exaust with no damages. best regards Mauro Il 18/07/2010 23:32, George Bush ha scritto: > Hello- > > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the East > of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San Andreas. > The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but was strong > enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! > > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances of > the San Andreas fault letting-go). > > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > > George Bush > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > 38.73775N, 123.48882W > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Velocity Sensor Question From: "Edward Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 12:49:38 +0000 Barry/Geoff On the website instructables.com there are a number of crude = homemade coil winders. Just type in coil winder. Ed.
Barry/Geoff
 
       On = the website=20 instructables.com there are a number of crude homemade coil = winders.=20 Just type in coil winder.
 
Ed. 
Subject: Coil Winder From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 06:31:34 -0700 Here is the one I use http://cgi.ebay.com/Manual-Coil-Winder-Power-Transformer-Winding-Machine-DI- /360279979429?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item53e25c35a5 Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Here is the one I use   =  http://cgi.ebay.com/Manual-Coil-Winder-Power-Transformer-Winding-Ma= chine-DI-/360279979429?cmd=3DViewItem&pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_2&has= h=3Ditem53e25c35a5   

Gary

 

 

 

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a>    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: A Sticky Question From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:42:55 -0500 In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. Regards, Jerry
In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil = winder=20 and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.  (As you know, you = have to=20 search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to = be=20 successful.)
 
Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with.  The EBay = choices=20 shown by Barry are interesting.  Thanks, Barry.
 
Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped=20 ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.  And, if I tried to = construct=20 a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to = stick=20 together!  I suppose that I did not have the correct = adhesive.  I=20 tried several without satisfaction.
 
If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, = materials &=20 glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
 
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 07:48:07 -0700 I understand the stability of the baseline is related to the DC nature of the balance between the + and - legs of the operational amplifier. Copper has a temperature coefficient which means it changes at a certian rate its resistance with temperature. If i balance both sides of the equation with identical physical properties, then I should expect they will change identically with temperature thus keeping the DC baseline steady. If you use only one copper coil on one leg this balance becomes impossible to achieve. This device will be located outside where temp changes are greatest. I do not know where you guys are coming from with your stable DC baselines unless you use some kind of miracle device which I have never found. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:21 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? Hi Geoff If you are measuring velocity not displacement there shouldn't be any temperature affects except maybe the electronics. There was a post awile back with a link to Ebay for a coil winding gismo for <$20. I'll see if I can find the link. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com ________________________________ From: Geoffrey To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 4:16:55 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? Here is the preamp. I was going to place it right at the geophone. The two exact coils will change in step with temperature to keep a stable DC baseline. Minimal drift. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg Any reason this should not be right ? Will Larry sell only the coils ? I might get two to try my ideas. I looked into getting ten wound but the company was outragious in its (retooling fees) It seems they cant simply do it even tho they wind the things for a living. Thanks for your response. Best Regards, geoff PS: if PSN had a binary news server. we could post any kind of file for people to have/look at ? Could someone create a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn] news group, I understand there is a complex process but the creation is free and almost all ISP have one as part of their service. I have tried to understand the process but like Linux OS I cant understand it. I have tried Linux several times but cant make it functional. Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it to be functional. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" To: Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:57 AM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > Hi Geoff, > > At 07:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >> Hello Mr. Nordgren; >> >> The question I have is thus: >> >> Is that coil right for the magnets or, >> Should it be rectangular in shape with the >> two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the magnetic flux ? > > Ideally you want your sensor to be linear. If you move the coil at a constant >speed over its mechanical range you would like to see a relatively constant >voltage out. You can achieve that in two ways. Have the magnet pole faces >large enough that all the coil wires stay well within the magnetic region, or >alternatively, make them small enough that all the magnetic lines stay within >the region filled with coil wires. When you have the edges of the magnetic >field moving across the outside or inside edges of the coil, the linearity >suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about too much. > >> I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 AWG(B&S) copper enameled wire >> for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ? >> >> The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy coat of enamel. >> >> Is 2100 turns enough ? > > I guess the question would have to be, enough for what? It all depends on how >sensitive you plan to make your signal detection circuit--that is, how much >amplifier gain do you plan to have and if you are connecting to an A/D device, >what is its sensitivity? In general, I would try to start with the smallest >wire and the largest number of turns I could easily manage. Coil resistance of >several K Ohms wouldn't be unreasonable. The coil Larry sells I believe has >10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms. > >> Would it be better if the coil had a copper or iron core ? > > Definitely no. Iron would "suck in" the magnetic lines, away from the wires >where you want them to be. Copper, unless it made a complete loop, wouldn't do >much since it wouldn't be in the magnetic field, certainly nothing particularly >helpful. > >> This would mean a custom coil rectangular instead of circular. > > Possibly you'd get slightly better linearity with a rectangular coil and >rectangular magnet pole pieces, but either shape should work reasonably well for >what you are trying to do. > >> I think it may be possible to have two identical >> coils center tapped in the middle with a single >> rare earth magnet in the middle between the two >> coils then you have the right setup for >> a proper op amp differential circuit. > > I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that you are wanting to connect one output >to each of the two inputs of an op amp. If that is what you are thinking about, >the problem will be too much gain. Typical op amps have voltage gains of 100's >of thousands, or more often, millions. Generally for approximate analyses >designers assume that their gain is infinite. That means that extremely tiny >input signals (noise) would have the op amp output bouncing between its voltage >limits--not very useful. > > Usually op amps are connected up as single ended amplifiers using a >two-resistor feedback circuit, which makes a very nice voltage amplifier. > > See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf Figure >3. > > If you do that, one coil will work fine, and by changing the resistor values >you can choose the amplifier gain to complement your coil sensitivity. The only >advantage I can think of for some kind of differential coil setup is that it >might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz hum. Though it probably wouldn't be that >hard to connect a differential coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a >guitar "hum-bucking" pickup. > > An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for independent connections to a >pair of coils, but they tend to be a lot more expensive and their gain usually >can't be adjusted as precisely. > > See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf Figure >2. > >> +COIL- NmagnetS +COIL- >> >> THE left coil - is connected to right coil + >> which is then the ground. >> >> Left Coil + goes to op amp + >> and >> Right coil - goes to op amp - >> >> The relative motion is magnet fixed to ground >> and coil fixed to device. >> >> Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left >> between the coils. >> >> Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion. >> >> Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns >> custom wound to be exactly the same. > > Hope that's a start, > Brett > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the >message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:13:27 -0700 (PDT) Jerry=0AI've successfully used acrylic=A0stock from a plastic supplier loca= lly with the =0Aappropriate glue.=A0I found that while machining or cutting= it I had to be careful =0Anot to get it hot. It will melt.=A0I used thin s= heets for the sides and round =0Astock or a thicker sheet cut in a=A0rectan= gle/square for the center. Finding the =0Acenter is challenging.=0A=A0Regar= ds=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___________________= _____________=0AFrom: GPayton =0ATo: psn-l@webtronic= s.com=0ASent: Mon, July 19, 2010 6:42:55 AM=0ASubject: A Sticky Question=0A= =0A=0AIn=A0years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder= and ended up =0Awith an old fashioned had drill.=A0 (As you know, you have= to search using the =0Acorrect words or your mouth pursed just right=A0to = be successful.)=0A=0AAnyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with.=A0 Th= e EBay choices shown by =0ABarry are interesting.=A0 Thanks, Barry.=0A=0ANe= ver-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made = =0Aspools or bobbins to wind a coil.=A0 And, if I tried to construct a rect= angular =0Ashaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick= together!=A0 I =0Asuppose that I did not have the correct adhesive.=A0 I t= ried several without =0Asatisfaction.=0A=0AIf anyone knows the secret to bu= ilding a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd =0Aappreciate knowing it.= =0A=0ARegards,=0AJerry
=0A
Jerry
=0A
I've successfully use= d acrylic stock from a plastic supplier locally with the appropriate g= lue. I found that while machining or cutting it I had to be careful no= t to get it hot. It will melt. I used thin sheets for the sides and ro= und stock or a thicker sheet cut in a rectangle/square for the center.= Finding the center is challenging.
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.se= ismicvault.com =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: GPayton <gpayton@.............>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 6:42:55 AMSubject: A Sticky Question=

=0A=0A=0A<= DIV>In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winde= r and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.  (As you know, you hav= e to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to= be successful.)
=0A
 
=0A
Anyway, that hand drill i= s what I ended up with.  The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesti= ng.  Thanks, Barry.
=0A
 
=0A
Never-the-less, i= n past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbi= ns to wind a coil.  And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped = form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together!  I= suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive.  I tried several wi= thout satisfaction.
=0A
 
=0A
If anyone knows the se= cret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate k= nowing it.
=0A
 
=0A
Regards,
=0A
Jerry=0A
 
=0A
 
Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:17:33 -0700 Hi J=F3n- I think the computer must have a loose card or=20 connection because it seems to be working fine=20 now. I plan on checking all boards and connections on my computer soon. Thanks for your thoughts George At 05:56 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >Hi, > >It might be a pre-earthquake to a larger earthquake. But only time is >going to tell you that. > >But I wonder why this small earthquake did manage to take your system >offline. I try to build my setup in that way that they can at least >withstand Mw6.5 earthquake. > >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >On sun, 2010-07-18 at 14:32 -0700, George Bush wrote: > > Hello- > > > > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the > > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the > > East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San > > Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but > > was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my=20 > drum recorder that also was off line! > > > > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or > > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances > > of the San Andreas fault letting-go). > > > > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > > > > > George Bush > > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > > 38.73775N, 123.48882W > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:21:26 -0700 Jerry- Thanks for the thought, I think I have detected more small quakes from off-shore than from small faults on the other side of the San Andreas fault that are on-shore. George At 02:58 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >Hi George, > >I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question. Yesterday, I >received the August issue of EARTH magazine with contained a sort >article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru. The article was >titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes. > >If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question as >to why a block of the plate might move seismic and another part >generate an earthquake. It pointed out that the majority of the >earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore at the >subducting ridge itself. > >In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the >seawater, which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated >subducted underneath the South American Plate. THAT is strictly a >guess on my part, as I have NO technical training in geology or seismology! > >In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be >in play there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who >knows. One might think that jostling a already stressed block might >cause it to release; and again it might just lessen the stress. > >I'd be interested in others opinions. Who knows, I might learn >something........Naaaaaa. > >Regards, >Jerry > >---------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: George Bush >To: psn-l@.............. >Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM >Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? > >Hello- > >This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the >ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the >East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San >Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but >was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also >was off line! > >I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or >relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances >of the San Andreas fault letting-go). > >I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > >George Bush >Sea Ranch, CA, USA >38.73775N, 123.48882W > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email >PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See >http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html >for more information. George Jerry-

Thanks for the thought, I think I have detected more small quakes from off-shore than from small faults on the other side of the San Andreas fault that are on-shore.

George

At 02:58 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote:
Hi George,
 
I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question.  Yesterday, I received the August issue of  EARTH magazine with contained a sort article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru.  The article was titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes.
 
If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question as to why a block of the plate might move seismic and another part generate an earthquake.  It pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore at the subducting ridge itself.
 
In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the South American Plate.  THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have NO technical training in geology or seismology!
 
In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be in play there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows.  One might think that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to release; and again it might just lessen the stress.
 
I'd be interested in others opinions.  Who knows, I might learn something........Naaaaaa.
 
Regards,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: George Bush
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault?

Hello-

This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the
ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the
East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San
Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but
was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line!

I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or
relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances
of the San Andreas fault letting-go).

I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks.


George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

George Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:18:57 -0700 Thanks, that is what my family back in the center of the country tell me all the time! George At 02:49 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >Look out, that is the start, you guys are about to fall into the ocean!!! > >;-) > >I have no idea... > >Jeff > >On 18 Jul 2010 at 14:32, George Bush wrote: > > > Hello- > > > > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the > > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the > > East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San > > Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but > > was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also > was off line! > > > > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or > > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances > > of the San Andreas fault letting-go). > > > > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > > > > > George Bush > > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > > 38.73775N, 123.48882W > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:22:39 -0700 Thanks Barry- That is a nice display, I will save the URL. George At 04:15 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >I keep an eye on this site. nice calif activity display >http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US10/32.42.-125.-115.php > >Regards >Barry >http://www.seismicvault.com > > > >From: GPayton >To: psn-l@.............. >Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 2:58:02 PM >Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San >Andreas fault? > >Hi George, > >I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question. Yesterday, I >received the August issue of EARTH magazine with contained a sort >article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru. The article was >titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes. > >If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question as >to why a block of the plate might move seismic and another part >generate an earthquake. It pointed out that the majority of the >earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore at the >subducting ridge itself. > >In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the >seawater, which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated >subducted underneath the South American Plate. THAT is strictly a >guess on my part, as I have NO technical training in geology or seismology! > >In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be >in play there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who >knows. One might think that jostling a already stressed block might >cause it to release; and again it might just lessen the stress. > >I'd be interested in others opinions. Who knows, I might learn >something........Naaaaaa. > >Regards, >Jerry > >---------- >----- Original Message ----- >From: George Bush >To: psn-l@.............. >Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM >Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? > >Hello- > >This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the >ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the >East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San >Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but >was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also >was off line! > >I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or >relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances >of the San Andreas fault letting-go). > >I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. > > >George Bush >Sea Ranch, CA, USA >38.73775N, 123.48882W > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email >PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George Thanks Barry-

That is a nice display, I will save the URL.

George

At 04:15 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote:

I keep an eye on this site. nice calif activity display
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsus/Maps/US10/32.42.-125.-115.php
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com



From: GPayton <gpayton@.............>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 2:58:02 PM
Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault?

Hi George,
 
I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question.  Yesterday, I received the August issue of  EARTH magazine with contained a sort article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru.  The article was titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes.
 
If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question as to why a block of the plate might move seismic and another part generate an earthquake.  It pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore at the subducting ridge itself.
 
In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the South American Plate.  THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have NO technical training in geology or seismology!
 
In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be in play there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows.  One might think that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to release; and again it might just lessen the stress.
 
I'd be interested in others opinions.  Who knows, I might learn something........Naaaaaa.
 
Regards,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: George Bush
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault?

Hello-

This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the
ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the
East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San
Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but
was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line!

I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or
relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances
of the San Andreas fault letting-go).

I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks.


George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W

__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.

George Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:23:19 -0700 "Finding the center is challenging" Isn't that just a matter of geometry or trig to find the center ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" To: Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 8:13 AM Subject: Re: A Sticky Question Jerry I've successfully used acrylic stock from a plastic supplier locally with the appropriate glue. I found that while machining or cutting it I had to be careful not to get it hot. It will melt. I used thin sheets for the sides and round stock or a thicker sheet cut in a rectangle/square for the center. Finding the center is challenging. Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com ________________________________ From: GPayton To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 6:42:55 AM Subject: A Sticky Question In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. Regards, Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:25:29 -0700 Thanks Geoff- I only worry because it is so close to the 'locked' San Andreas fault that is about due to go again (over 100 years since the 06 quake that displaced the fault up where I live by almost 20'). At 04:30 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >Hello Mr. Bush; > >I live 400 miles away to the EAST of LA and the quake >in 1994 rattled things all around here. > >Small quakes below like 5.0 are very common. > >I would not worry about one small quake. > >But you can be sure, CA will one day have a big one. > >They have charts (USGS) at places on the internet >which show research into high stress areas and >places like San Bernardino area is under great stress >now or so they believe. Washington State, Nevada, >They find high stresses where faults have not moved >in a long time. > >I suggest you research stress/strain as it relates to causing quakes. > >Or so I understand. > >Regards, >geoff > >----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bush" >To: >Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 2:32 PM >Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? > > >>Hello- >>This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in >>the ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to >>the East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the >>San Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer >>off-line, but was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum >>recorder that also was off line! >>I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain >>or relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the >>chances of the San Andreas fault letting-go). >>I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. >> >>George Bush >>Sea Ranch, CA, USA >>38.73775N, 123.48882W >>__________________________________________________________ >>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >>To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >>of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San From: George Bush ke6pxp@....... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:33:32 -0700 Hello Mauro- Thank you for your thoughts and suggestions! I agree with you on the importance of these quakes and willtry to set up some procedure for monitoring and graphing them. George At 12:14 AM 7/19/2010, you wrote: >Hello, > >from far Italy i guess sharing some experience we have here may be useful. > >Single, spot event usually don't lead to any precursor. >Look to event sequences instead. >Check for sequence of earthquakes, they have to belong to the same >fault system and/or be focused on a constrained area (which can be >also rather large, this depends on the seismogenetic structures). > >Usually dangerous eq sequences follows the seismo structure you have. >Check then on the historical records of that area for as back in >time you can go and try to see time related patterns. > >Often the huge ground blocks push to each other and a fault depend >on the other, for sure you can find lot of literature about it for your area. > >Then draw a chart of magnitude of earthquake (Y axis) and time (X >axis) and see if magnitude and frequency increase or decrease. Pay >much attention if frequency and magnitude stops suddenly. > >If eq sequence go up in frequency and magnitude, stay in alert. >If eq sequence go slowily down in freq. and magnit. probably is only >an ew swarm that will exaust with no damages. > >best regards >Mauro > > > >Il 18/07/2010 23:32, George Bush ha scritto: >>Hello- >> >>This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the >>ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the East >>of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San Andreas. >>The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but was strong >>enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! >> >>I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or >>relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances of >>the San Andreas fault letting-go). >> >>I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. >> >> >>George Bush >>Sea Ranch, CA, USA >>38.73775N, 123.48882W >>__________________________________________________________ >> >>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >> >>To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of >>the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body >of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Pete Rowe ptrowe@......... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 08:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Geoff The secret miracle device that I use is a series coupling capacitor in the amplifier chain. The value I use is 4 uF but I only have a 3 second pendulum. AC couple the stages and the DC component becomes irrelevant. Make sure that the coupling caps are NON-POLAR. Don't use an electrolytic here. You can make up large values by paralleling smaller values. I hope this helps. Pete --- On Mon, 7/19/10, Geoffrey wrote: > From: Geoffrey > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > To: psn-l@.............. > Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 7:48 AM > I understand the stability of the > baseline is related to the > DC nature of the balance between the + and - legs > of the operational amplifier. Copper has > a temperature coefficient which means it changes at a > certian rate its resistance with temperature. > If i balance both sides of the equation with identical > physical properties, then I should expect > they will change identically with temperature > thus keeping the DC baseline steady. > If you use only one copper coil on one leg this > balance becomes impossible to achieve. > This device will be located outside where > temp changes are greatest. > > I do not know where you guys are coming from > with your stable DC baselines unless you use > some kind of miracle device which I have never found. > > Best Regards, > geoff > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:21 PM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > > > Hi Geoff > If you are measuring velocity not displacement there > shouldn't be any temperature affects except maybe the > electronics. There was a post awile back with a link to Ebay > for a coil winding gismo for <$20. I'll see if I can find > the link. Regards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com > > > > ________________________________ > From: Geoffrey > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Sun, July 18, 2010 4:16:55 PM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > > Here is the preamp. > I was going to place it right at the geophone. > The two exact coils will change in step > with temperature to keep a stable DC > baseline. Minimal drift. > > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg > > Any reason this should not be right ? > > Will Larry sell only the coils ? > I might get two to try my ideas. > > I looked into getting ten wound but the company > was outragious in its (retooling fees) > It seems they cant simply do it even tho they > wind the things for a living. > > Thanks for your response. > > Best Regards, > geoff > > PS: if PSN had a binary news server. > we could post any kind of file > for people to have/look at ? > Could someone create a [alt.binaries.seismic.psn] > news group, I understand there is a complex process > but the creation is free and almost all ISP have > one as part of their service. I have tried to understand > the process but like Linux OS I cant understand it. > I have tried Linux several times but cant make it > functional. > Fedora 10 installs OK but I just cant get it to be > functional. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Nordgren" > To: > Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 10:57 AM > Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? > > > > Hi Geoff, > > > > At 07:30 AM 7/18/2010, you wrote: > >> Hello Mr. Nordgren; > >> > >> The question I have is thus: > >> > >> Is that coil right for the magnets or, > >> Should it be rectangular in shape with the > >> two vertical sides of the rectangle outside the > magnetic flux ? > > > > Ideally you want your sensor to be linear. If you move > the coil at a constant speed over its mechanical range you > would like to see a relatively constant voltage out. You can > achieve that in two ways. Have the magnet pole faces large > enough that all the coil wires stay well within the magnetic > region, or alternatively, make them small enough that all > the magnetic lines stay within the region filled with coil > wires. When you have the edges of the magnetic field moving > across the outside or inside edges of the coil, the > linearity suffers, though perhaps not enough to worry about > too much. > > > >> I figure I may need like 1206 feet of 36 > AWG(B&S) copper enameled wire > >> for a 2100 turns 500 ohm coil ? > >> > >> The 2100 turns are of enamled wire without a heavy > coat of enamel. > >> > >> Is 2100 turns enough ? > > > > I guess the question would have to be, enough for > what? It all depends on how sensitive you plan to make your > signal detection circuit--that is, how much amplifier gain > do you plan to have and if you are connecting to an A/D > device, what is its sensitivity? In general, I would try to > start with the smallest wire and the largest number of turns > I could easily manage. Coil resistance of several K Ohms > wouldn't be unreasonable. The coil Larry sells I believe has > 10,000 turns and is 9,000 Ohms. > > > >> Would it be better if the coil had a copper or > iron core ? > > > > Definitely no. Iron would "suck in" the magnetic > lines, away from the wires where you want them to be. > Copper, unless it made a complete loop, wouldn't do much > since it wouldn't be in the magnetic field, certainly > nothing particularly helpful. > > > >> This would mean a custom coil rectangular instead > of circular. > > > > Possibly you'd get slightly better linearity with a > rectangular coil and rectangular magnet pole pieces, but > either shape should work reasonably well for what you are > trying to do. > > > >> I think it may be possible to have two identical > >> coils center tapped in the middle with a single > >> rare earth magnet in the middle between the two > >> coils then you have the right setup for > >> a proper op amp differential circuit. > > > > I may be wrong, but I am suspecting that you are > wanting to connect one output to each of the two inputs of > an op amp. If that is what you are thinking about, the > problem will be too much gain. Typical op amps have voltage > gains of 100's of thousands, or more often, millions. > Generally for approximate analyses designers assume that > their gain is infinite. That means that extremely tiny input > signals (noise) would have the op amp output bouncing > between its voltage limits--not very useful. > > > > Usually op amps are connected up as single ended > amplifiers using a two-resistor feedback circuit, which > makes a very nice voltage amplifier. > > > > See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf > Figure 3. > > > > If you do that, one coil will work fine, and by > changing the resistor values you can choose the amplifier > gain to complement your coil sensitivity. The only advantage > I can think of for some kind of differential coil setup is > that it might not be as sensitive to 60 Hz hum. Though it > probably wouldn't be that hard to connect a differential > coil to a single-ended amplifier, sort of like a guitar > "hum-bucking" pickup. > > > > An instrumentation amplifier *would* allow for > independent connections to a pair of coils, but they tend to > be a lot more expensive and their gain usually can't be > adjusted as precisely. > > > > See: http://www.analog.com/static/imported-files/tutorials/MT-032.pdf > Figure 2. > > > >> +COIL- NmagnetS +COIL- > >> > >> THE left coil - is connected to right coil + > >> which is then the ground. > >> > >> Left Coil + goes to op amp + > >> and > >> Right coil - goes to op amp - > >> > >> The relative motion is magnet fixed to ground > >> and coil fixed to device. > >> > >> Coil is stable and magnet moves right and left > >> between the coils. > >> > >> Possibly +/- 2mm of range of motion. > >> > >> Each coil having 1050 to 2100 turns > >> custom wound to be exactly the same. > > > > Hope that's a start, > > Brett > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html > for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html > for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html > for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:40:10 -0500 No problem. As I said, it is just my uneducated "guess", at its best. I found the article interesting in that I had noticed the EQ's mostly occurred inland from the ridge, as well as the mountain building aspect. I think I would be a little nervous too, if I lived that close to the San Andreas fault. But, short of moving, what can you do? Best Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: George Bush To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 10:21 AM Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? Jerry- Thanks for the thought, I think I have detected more small quakes from off-shore than from small faults on the other side of the San Andreas fault that are on-shore. George At 02:58 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: Hi George, I will do a flimsy attempt in answering you question. Yesterday, I received the August issue of EARTH magazine with contained a sort article about the Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru. The article was titled Peruvian Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes. If I understood the article correctly, it was asking the question as to why a block of the plate might move seismic and another part generate an earthquake. It pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and not actually off shore at the subducting ridge itself. In humble opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which would be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the South American Plate. THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have NO technical training in geology or seismology! In regard to your question, I would think the same process "may" be in play there and there may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows. One might think that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to release; and again it might just lessen the stress. I'd be interested in others opinions. Who knows, I might learn something........Naaaaaa. Regards, Jerry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: George Bush To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? Hello- This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was off line! I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances of the San Andreas fault letting-go). I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN folks. George Bush Sea Ranch, CA, USA 38.73775N, 123.48882W __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. George

No problem.  As I said, it is just my uneducated "guess", at = its=20 best.  I found the article interesting in that I had noticed the = EQ's=20 mostly occurred inland from the ridge, as well as the mountain building=20 aspect. 
 
I think I would be a little nervous too, if I lived that close to = the San=20 Andreas fault.  But, short of moving, what can you do?
 
Best Regards,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 George = Bush
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 = 10:21=20 AM
Subject: Re: What are the = implications of=20 a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault?

Jerry-

Thanks for the thought, I think I have = detected=20 more small quakes from off-shore than from small faults on the other = side of=20 the San Andreas fault that are on-shore.

George

At 02:58 = PM=20 7/18/2010, you wrote:
Hi = George,
 
I will do=20 a flimsy attempt in answering you question.  Yesterday, I = received the=20 August issue of  EARTH magazine with contained a sort article = about the=20 Nazca Plate adjacent to Peru.  The article was titled = Peruvian=20 Plates Move With and Without Earthquakes.
 
If I = understood=20 the article correctly, it was asking the question as to why a block = of the=20 plate might move seismic and another part generate an = earthquake.  It=20 pointed out that the majority of the earthquakes occur inland and = not=20 actually off shore at the subducting ridge itself.
 
In = humble=20 opinion, that may be because of lubrication from the seawater, which = would=20 be less and less at the wedge-shaped plated subducted underneath the = South=20 American Plate.  THAT is strictly a guess on my part, as I have = NO=20 technical training in geology or seismology!
 
In regard = to your=20 question, I would think the same process "may" be in play there and = there=20 may or may not be a direct interaction, who knows.  One might = think=20 that jostling a already stressed block might cause it to release; = and again=20 it might just lessen the stress.
 
I'd be interested in = others=20 opinions.  Who knows, I might learn=20 something........Naaaaaa.
 
Regards,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From: George Bush =
To: psn-l@..............=20
Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 4:32 PM
Subject: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near = the San=20 Andreas fault?

Hello-

This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out = in the=20
ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs = to the=20
East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the = San
Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer = off-line, but=20
was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that = also was=20 off line!

I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add = strain or=20
relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the = chances=20
of the San Andreas fault letting-go).

I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you = PSN=20 folks.


George Bush
Sea Ranch, CA, USA
38.73775N, 123.48882W

=
__________________________________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@............... =20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.

George Subject: RE: A Sticky Question From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:02:47 -0700 Jerry, I have built coil forms using the design of Chris Chapman. I use .062" circuit board material without the copper layer. I cut out the shapes with a saw and use a Dremel tool to cut slots as needed and use epoxy to bond it all together. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: A Sticky Question In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. Regards, Jerry

Jerry,

I have built coil forms using the design of Chris = Chapman. I use ..062" circuit board material without the copper layer. I cut out = the shapes with a saw and use a Dremel tool to cut slots as needed and use epoxy to = bond it all together.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of GPayton
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: A Sticky Question

 

In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.  (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or = your mouth pursed just right to be successful.)

 

Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up = with.  The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting.  Thanks, = Barry.

 

Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding = proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.  And, if I = tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the = sandwiched parts to stick together!  I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive.  I tried several without satisfaction.

 

If anyone knows the secret to building a = rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 09:15:03 -0700 Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html By the way, has anybody heard how Chris is doing? I miss hearing from = him on this net. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Gary Lindgren=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: RE: A Sticky Question Jerry, I have built coil forms using the design of Chris Chapman. I use .062" = circuit board material without the copper layer. I cut out the shapes = with a saw and use a Dremel tool to cut slots as needed and use epoxy to = bond it all together.=20 Gary =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: A Sticky Question =20 In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder = and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to = search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be = successful.) =20 Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices = shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. =20 Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped = ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to = construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the = sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the = correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. =20 If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & = glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. =20 Regards, Jerry =20 =20
Here is the link to Chris Chapman's = coil design and=20 instructions
http= ://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
 
By the way, has anybody heard how Chris = is=20 doing?  I miss hearing from him on this net.
 
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary=20 Lindgren
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 = 9:02 AM
Subject: RE: A Sticky = Question

Jerry,

I=20 have built coil forms using the design of Chris Chapman. I use .062" = circuit=20 board material without the copper layer. I cut out the shapes with a = saw and=20 use a Dremel tool to cut slots as needed and use epoxy to bond it all=20 together.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of=20 GPayton
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 = AM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: A Sticky=20 Question

 

In years past, I had difficulties in finding = a=20 "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had = drill.  (As=20 you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth = pursed just=20 right to be successful.)

 

Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up = with.  The=20 EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting.  Thanks,=20 Barry.

 

Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble = finding proper=20 shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.  And, if I = tried to=20 construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the = sandwiched=20 parts to stick together!  I suppose that I did not have the = correct=20 adhesive.  I tried several without = satisfaction.

 

If anyone knows the secret to building a = rectangular form,=20 materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 11:26:33 -0500 Thank you Kay, good to hear from you. I sent a private email just last week and have not heard back from his wife. The last I heard was that he was still hospitalized and fighting whatever the problem was (I did not pry). I believe it to be serious, but yet unidentified to me. Thank you again for the URL. Back in 1998 he had suggested a glass type PCB and that is where I fell into trouble (if I remember correctly.) Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 11:15 AM Subject: Re: A Sticky Question Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html By the way, has anybody heard how Chris is doing? I miss hearing from him on this net. Kay Wyatt ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Lindgren To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 9:02 AM Subject: RE: A Sticky Question Jerry, I have built coil forms using the design of Chris Chapman. I use .062" circuit board material without the copper layer. I cut out the shapes with a saw and use a Dremel tool to cut slots as needed and use epoxy to bond it all together. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of GPayton Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: A Sticky Question In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. Regards, Jerry
Thank you Kay, good to hear from you.
 
I sent a private email just last week and have not heard back from = his=20 wife.  The last I heard was that he was still hospitalized and = fighting=20 whatever the problem was (I did not pry).  I believe it to be = serious, but=20 yet unidentified to me.
 
Thank you again for the URL.  Back in 1998 he had suggested a = glass=20 type PCB and that is where I fell into trouble (if I remember = correctly.)
 
Regards,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 = 11:15=20 AM
Subject: Re: A Sticky = Question

Here is the link to Chris Chapman's = coil design=20 and instructions
http= ://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
 
By the way, has anybody heard how = Chris is=20 doing?  I miss hearing from him on this net.
 
Kay Wyatt
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Gary=20 Lindgren
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 = 9:02=20 AM
Subject: RE: A Sticky = Question

Jerry,

I=20 have built coil forms using the design of Chris Chapman. I use .062" = circuit=20 board material without the copper layer. I cut out the shapes with a = saw and=20 use a Dremel tool to cut slots as needed and use epoxy to bond it = all=20 together.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: psn-l-request@............... =20 [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of=20 GPayton
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 6:43 = AM
To:=20 psn-l@..............
Subject: A Sticky=20 Question

 

In years past, I had difficulties in = finding a=20 "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had = drill.  (As=20 you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth = pursed=20 just right to be successful.)

 

Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up = with. =20 The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting.  Thanks,=20 Barry.

 

Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble = finding=20 proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.  = And, if I=20 tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting = the=20 sandwiched parts to stick together!  I suppose that I did not = have the=20 correct adhesive.  I tried several without=20 satisfaction.

 

If anyone knows the secret to building a = rectangular=20 form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing = it.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:03:10 -0700 (PDT) You are correct. I found I had a little wobble but if you are winding=A0slo= w it =0Adoesn't seem to matter much. I did use a variable speed drill and w= hen I got =0Acomfortable I increased the RPM. Then the centering was more i= mportant.=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: Geoffrey = =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Mon, July 19, 2010 8:23:19 AM=0ASubject= : Re: A Sticky Question=0A=0A=0A"Finding the center is challenging"=0A=0AIs= n't that just a matter of geometry or trig=0Ato find the center ?=0A=0A=0A= =0A----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" =0ATo: =0ASent: Monday, July 19, 2010 8:13 AM=0ASub= ject: Re: A Sticky Question=0A=0A=0AJerry=0AI've successfully used acrylic = stock from a plastic supplier locally with the =0Aappropriate glue. I found= that while machining or cutting it I had to be careful =0Anot to get it ho= t. It will melt. I used thin sheets for the sides and round =0Astock or a t= hicker sheet cut in a rectangle/square for the center. Finding the =0Acente= r is challenging.=0ARegards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A= =0A________________________________=0AFrom: GPayton = =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Mon, July 19, 2010 6:42:55 AM=0ASubject= : A Sticky Question=0A=0A=0AIn years past, I had difficulties in finding a = "manual" coil winder and ended up =0Awith an old fashioned had drill. (As y= ou know, you have to search using the =0Acorrect words or your mouth pursed= just right to be successful.)=0A=0AAnyway, that hand drill is what I ended= up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry =0Aare interesting. Thanks, Barry= ..=0A=0ANever-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped re= ady-made =0Aspools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct = a rectangular =0Ashaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to= stick together! I =0Asuppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I t= ried several without =0Asatisfaction.=0A=0AIf anyone knows the secret to bu= ilding a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd =0Aappreciate knowing it.= =0A=0ARegards,=0AJerry=0A__________________________________________________= ________=0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo leave thi= s list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the =0Amessage (= first line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html= for more information.=0A
=0A
You are correct. I found I had a little = wobble but if you are winding slow it doesn't seem to matter much. I d= id use a variable speed drill and when I got comfortable I increased the RP= M. Then the centering was more important.
 
Regards
Barryhttp://= www.seismicvault.com =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0A= From: Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 8:23:19 AM
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question


"Finding the center is challenging"

Isn't that just= a matter of geometry or trig
to find the center ?



----- = Original Message ----- From: "Barry Lotz" <barry_lotz@sbcgl= obal.net>
To: <psn-l@..............>
Sent: Mond= ay, July 19, 2010 8:13 AM
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question


Jerr= y
I've successfully used acrylic stock from a plastic supplier locally w= ith the appropriate glue. I found that while machining or cutting it I had to be careful not to get it hot. It will mel= t. I used thin sheets for the sides and round stock or a thicker sheet cut = in a rectangle/square for the center. Finding the center is challenging.Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com



__________= ______________________
From: GPayton <gpayton@.............>
To:
psn-l@..............
Sent: Mon, July 19, 2010 6:42= :55 AM
Subject: A Sticky Question


In years past, I had diffic= ulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned= had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or you= r mouth pursed just right to be successful.)

Anyway, that hand drill= is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry.

Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding = proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried = to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiche= d parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesi= ve. I tried several without satisfaction.

If anyone knows the secret= to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowi= ng it.

Regards,
Jerry
________________________________________= __________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)
To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. M with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See ht= tp://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
=
Subject: Report on Chris Chapman From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:26:40 -0500 Kay and others, This is latest report on Chris Chapman's illness and recovery. Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: ChrisAtUpw@....... To: gpayton@............. Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 1:19 PM Subject: Re: Health Check Hello Jerry, At last Chris is making real progress and is off the ventilator. But I think it is going to take a long time before he regains his strength. I will pass your message on. best wishes Dianne
Kay and = others,
 
This is latest report on = Chris=20 Chapman's illness and recovery. 
Jerry

 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: ChrisAtUpw@.......=20
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: Health Check

Hello Jerry,
 
         =20 At last Chris is making real progress and is off the ventilator. But I = think it=20 is going to take a long time before he regains his strength. I will pass = your=20 message on.
 
best wishes
 
Dianne
Subject: Coil Winding From: Chuck / Judy Burch cjburch@........... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:08:54 -0600 This is the crude system I use. Make a rectangular piece from wood, fiberboard or plastic the desired size of the inside of the coil and the same thickness as the desired coil. Drill a 1/4 in hole through the center of the form. Now make two side pieces of the same material larger in area than the finished coil, again drill a 1/4 inch hole through the centers. Wrap the 3 pieces with waxed paper or cling-wrap (either works fine), put the sandwich together using a 1/4 inch bolt and nut and tighten. Hold the form in one hand and wind the wire on with the other hand. An assistant to manage the wire spool and feed you 2 - 3 feet of kink-free wire at a time helps. Every dozen turns or so add a drop of fingernail lacquer to the coil to stabilize it. (Q-Dope would be better but I don't have any - the fingernail lacquer works adequately.) You can mechanize this by chucking the bolt end in a variable speed electric drill and clamping the drill to a table. But I was able to wind a coil by hand in about a half hour. Once you have the desired number of turns, let the form dry overnight, then take it apart. The coil is supposed to separate from the form easily. Set the coil on a piece of 1/8 inch lucite, perspex, acrylic or whatever, plastic - mark the outline on the plastic. Drill some holes and finish with a rat-tail file to make a hole the coil fits in snugly. Glue it in securely with more fingernail lacquer and you're done. If you left a tab on the 1/8 inch plastic use it for mounting the coil. An advantage of this scheme is that the finished coil is only as thick as the coil itself - no bobbin walls. This means you can use a smaller magnet gap than otherwise. I use a 500 turn coil in a Chapman design magnet assembly and get 15 N/A as a feedback forcer. I could easily double the force constant by reducing the magnet gap, but this is fine for my purposes. Chuck Burch PS: I used clear fingernail lacquer but colored would brighten things up. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Interrogative From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:35:58 -0700 What happened to Chris ? I know I haven't heard him on the PSN list for quite sometime. I understand he lives in England somewhere ? If it is a medical thing it may be Dr.-Patient confidential. Should I ask him directly what's up, or is he not able to read emails ? I know what's it like to be both sick and beat up, and have no one but vultures care about any of it. Best Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:46:51 -0400 Hi Goeff, At 07:16 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote: >Here is the preamp. >I was going to place it right at the geophone. >The two exact coils will change in step >with temperature to keep a stable DC >baseline. Minimal drift. > >http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg > >Any reason this should not be right ? It's almost right. I think you intended the "-" input to be the top terminal, so that the resistor from the output goes to "-" and doesn't make positive feedback. Another small correction is that for perfect balance that particular resistor needs to be 27k - 250 = 26,750. Or, easier, you could just connect the coils in series and hook the pair to a single-ended op-amp circuit. That way the magnetics could effectively be differential while still using a simpler single-ended op-amp connection. The coil resistance variations don't cause DC baseline shifts (see below), but they do cause the instrument sensitivity to vary by about 0.4% per deg/C, which will still be the case, even with a differential circuit. I believe that the very best (k$$) commercial instruments vary in sensitivity by more than 0.03% per degree, so for a home made instrument 0.4%/degC doesn't seem to be all that terrible. And If you felt you needed to, you could reduce the effect of the coil resistance variation on the gain by a factor of 11 by adding a 2.5K resistor in series with each of the coils and then increasing the 27K resistors to something in the vicinity of 270 K to restore the gain to what you had before. >Will Larry sell only the coils ? You might try e-mailing him. >I might get two to try my ideas. > >I looked into getting ten wound but the company >was outragious in its (retooling fees) >It seems they cant simply do it even tho they >wind the things for a living. When we were making transformers we found that setting up make a particular part that's not in inventory can take considerable time. (=$$) Once set up you can turn them out very fast, but then you have to make hundreds at a time to be able to sell them for a reasonable price and still cover the setup costs. ********** >I understand the stability of the baseline is related to the >DC nature of the balance between the + and - legs >of the operational amplifier. Copper has >a temperature coefficient which means it changes at a >certian rate its resistance with temperature. >If i balance both sides of the equation with identical >physical properties, then I should expect >they will change identically with temperature >thus keeping the DC baseline steady. >If you use only one copper coil on one leg this >balance becomes impossible to achieve. >This device will be located outside where >temp changes are greatest. What we have found to be most important are output voltages, "DC baseline shifts", which appear when there is no ground motion (we'll call them instrument noise voltages). With no ground motion, the coil voltages are zero and an ideal amplifier will have zero output regardless of the coil or other resistance values. The most likely source of noise signals will be from inside the op amp. >I do not know where you guys are coming from >with your stable DC baselines unless you use >some kind of miracle device which I have never found. Nope, just good op-amps in good circuits. Bear in mind that even a single-ended op-amp circuit is still differential in a number of important ways. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ? From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 16:40:53 -0700 (PDT) Hi Goeff=0Ayou might also be able to put=A0some zeroing circuitry using a t= rim pot in the =0Ainput end to adjust the zero. I'm not sure how that would= be configured for your =0Acircuit. =0A=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://www.s= eismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Bre= tt Nordgren =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Mon= , July 19, 2010 2:46:51 PM=0ASubject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?=0A=0AH= i Goeff,=0A=0AAt 07:16 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote:=0A>Here is the preamp.=0A>I= was going to place it right at the geophone.=0A>The two exact coils will c= hange in step=0A>with temperature to keep a stable DC=0A>baseline. Minimal = drift.=0A>=0A>http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP001.jpg=0A>=0A>Any reason th= is should not be right ?=0A=0AIt's almost right.=A0 I think you intended th= e "-" input to be the top =0Aterminal, so that the resistor from the output= goes to "-" and =0Adoesn't make positive feedback.=A0 Another small correc= tion is that for =0Aperfect balance that particular resistor needs to be 27= k - 250 =3D =0A26,750.=A0 Or, easier, you could just connect the coils in s= eries and =0Ahook the pair to a single-ended op-amp circuit.=A0 That way th= e =0Amagnetics could effectively be differential while still using a =0Asim= pler single-ended op-amp connection.=0A=0AThe coil resistance variations do= n't cause DC baseline shifts (see =0Abelow), but they do cause the instrume= nt sensitivity to vary by about =0A0.4% per deg/C, which will still be the = case, even with a =0Adifferential circuit.=A0 I believe that the very best = (k$$) commercial =0Ainstruments vary in sensitivity by more than 0.03% per = degree, so for =0Aa home made instrument 0.4%/degC doesn't seem to be all t= hat terrible.=0A=0AAnd If you felt you needed to, you could reduce the effe= ct of the =0Acoil resistance variation on the gain by a factor of 11 by add= ing a =0A2.5K resistor in series with each of the coils and then increasing= =0Athe 27K resistors to something in the vicinity of 270 K to restore =0At= he gain to what you had before.=0A=0A>Will Larry sell only the coils ?=0A= =0AYou might try e-mailing him.=0A=0A>I might get two to try my ideas.=0A>= =0A>I looked into getting ten wound but the company=0A>was outragious in it= s (retooling fees)=0A>It seems they cant simply do it even tho they=0A>wind= the things for a living.=0A=0AWhen we were making transformers we found th= at setting up make a =0Aparticular part that's not in inventory can take co= nsiderable time. =0A(=3D$$)=A0 Once set up you can turn them out very fast,= but then you have =0Ato make hundreds at a time to be able to sell them fo= r a reasonable =0Aprice and still cover the setup costs.=0A=0A**********=0A= >I understand the stability of the baseline is related to the=0A>DC nature = of the balance between the + and - legs=0A>of the operational amplifier. Co= pper has=0A>a temperature coefficient which means it changes at a=0A>certia= n rate its resistance with temperature.=0A>If i balance both sides of the e= quation with identical=0A>physical properties, then I should expect=0A>they= will change identically with temperature=0A>thus keeping the DC baseline s= teady.=0A>If you use only one copper coil on one leg this=0A>balance become= s impossible to achieve.=0A>This device will be located outside where=0A>te= mp changes are greatest.=0A=0AWhat we have found to be most important are o= utput voltages, "DC =0Abaseline shifts", which appear when there is no grou= nd motion (we'll =0Acall them instrument noise voltages).=A0 With no ground= motion, the =0Acoil voltages are zero and an ideal amplifier will have zer= o output =0Aregardless of the coil or other resistance values.=A0 The most = likely =0Asource of noise signals will be from inside the op amp.=0A=0A>I d= o not know where you guys are coming from=0A>with your stable DC baselines = unless you use=0A>some kind of miracle device which I have never found.=0A= =0ANope, just good op-amps in good circuits.=A0 Bear in mind that even a = =0Asingle-ended op-amp circuit is still differential in a number of =0Aimpo= rtant ways.=0A=0ARegards,=0ABrett=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________________= ____________________________=0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-= L)=0A=0ATo leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with =0Athe b= ody of the message (first line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicn= et.com/maillist.html for more information.=0A
=0A
Hi Goeff
=0A
you might also be = able to put some zeroing circuitry using a trim pot in the input end t= o adjust the zero. I'm not sure how that would be configured for your circu= it.
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com =0A
<= BR>
=0A

=0A
=0A
= =0AFrom: Brett Nordgren <= ;brett3nt@.............>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent:<= /SPAN> Mon, July 19, 2010 2:46:51 PM
Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Question ?

Hi G= oeff,

At 07:16 PM 7/18/2010, you wrote:
>Here is the preamp.>I was going to place it right at the geophone.
>The two exact c= oils will change in step
>with temperature to keep a stable DC
>= ;baseline. Minimal drift.
>
>http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/AMP0= 01.jpg
>
>Any reason this should not be right ?

It's alm= ost right.  I think you intended the "-" input to be the top
termi= nal, so that the resistor from the output goes to "-" and
doesn't make = positive feedback.  Another small correction is that for
perfect balance that particular resistor needs to be 27k - 250 =3D
26,750.&nbs= p; Or, easier, you could just connect the coils in series and
hook the = pair to a single-ended op-amp circuit.  That way the
magnetics cou= ld effectively be differential while still using a
simpler single-ended= op-amp connection.

The coil resistance variations don't cause DC ba= seline shifts (see
below), but they do cause the instrument sensitivity= to vary by about
0.4% per deg/C, which will still be the case, even wi= th a
differential circuit.  I believe that the very best (k$$) com= mercial
instruments vary in sensitivity by more than 0.03% per degree, = so for
a home made instrument 0.4%/degC doesn't seem to be all that ter= rible.

And If you felt you needed to, you could reduce the effect of= the
coil resistance variation on the gain by a factor of 11 by adding = a
2.5K resistor in series with each of the coils and then increasing
the 27K resistors to something in the vicinity of 270 K to = restore
the gain to what you had before.

>Will Larry sell onl= y the coils ?

You might try e-mailing him.

>I might get tw= o to try my ideas.
>
>I looked into getting ten wound but the c= ompany
>was outragious in its (retooling fees)
>It seems they c= ant simply do it even tho they
>wind the things for a living.

= When we were making transformers we found that setting up make a
partic= ular part that's not in inventory can take considerable time.
(=3D$$)&n= bsp; Once set up you can turn them out very fast, but then you have
to = make hundreds at a time to be able to sell them for a reasonable
price = and still cover the setup costs.

**********
>I understand the = stability of the baseline is related to the
>DC nature of the balance= between the + and - legs
>of the operational amplifier. Copper has
>a temperature coefficient which means it changes at a
>ce= rtian rate its resistance with temperature.
>If i balance both sides = of the equation with identical
>physical properties, then I should ex= pect
>they will change identically with temperature
>thus keepi= ng the DC baseline steady.
>If you use only one copper coil on one le= g this
>balance becomes impossible to achieve.
>This device wil= l be located outside where
>temp changes are greatest.

What we= have found to be most important are output voltages, "DC
baseline shif= ts", which appear when there is no ground motion (we'll
call them instr= ument noise voltages).  With no ground motion, the
coil voltages a= re zero and an ideal amplifier will have zero output
regardless of the = coil or other resistance values.  The most likely
source of noise = signals will be from inside the op amp.

>I do not know where you guys are coming from
>with your stable DC baselines unless= you use
>some kind of miracle device which I have never found.
Nope, just good op-amps in good circuits.  Bear in mind that even a =
single-ended op-amp circuit is still differential in a number of
im= portant ways.

Regards,
Brett



_____________________= _____________________________________

Public Seismic Network Mailing= List (PSN-L)

To leave this list email PSN-L-RE= QUEST@.............. with
the body of the message (first line only)= : unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more infor= mation.
Subject: RE: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San Andreas fault? From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:32:32 -0700 I thought that single 2.8 event was rather peculiar due to its location = and history of activity in that specific area. It's worth watching now and looking to see what happens "around" the area. -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of J=F3n Fr=EDmann Sent: Sunday, July 18, 2010 5:56 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: What are the implications of a M2.8 quake near the San = Andreas fault? Hi, It might be a pre-earthquake to a larger earthquake. But only time is going to tell you that. But I wonder why this small earthquake did manage to take your system offline. I try to build my setup in that way that they can at least withstand Mw6.5 earthquake. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On sun, 2010-07-18 at 14:32 -0700, George Bush wrote: > Hello- >=20 > This morning we had a M2.8 quake about 4 miles west of us out in the=20 > ocean and about 5 miles from the San Andreas fault that runs to the=20 > East of us. It was on a minor fault that runs parallel to the San=20 > Andreas. The shock knocked my data acquisition computer off-line, but=20 > was strong enough to jiggle the pen on my drum recorder that also was = off line! >=20 > I am wondering if the movement of the minor fault will add strain or=20 > relieve strain on the San Andreas fault (add or decrease the chances=20 > of the San Andreas fault letting-go). >=20 > I would appreciate any thoughts or opinions on this from you PSN = folks. >=20 >=20 > George Bush > Sea Ranch, CA, USA > 38.73775N, 123.48882W=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: First post From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 21:44:16 -0700 Hi Andy, You can use any email client to send in your event files or use WinQuake. Just attach them as attachments and send the email message to event@............... Up to 4 event files can be attached per email message. The files must be in the PSN Type 4 Binary format. The From: address is not check when processing event files so any address can be used. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 7/18/2010 12:37 AM, Andrew Little wrote: > Hello psn, > This is my first post, and I would like to ask someone to talk me > through uploading event data. > The Fox island event is still comming through here in France and I would > like to try and upload the data. I am using AmaSeis and will open the > file in WinQuake, what next? Thanks in advance. > Andy. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 16:10:37 -0700 The Last Picture On This Page of GVA is a Rock Fossil. This is more palientology than Seismology But, do any of you know what this rock fossil represents ? http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML Also on this page is an idea I want to use and A working but not proper model of such a velocity sensor. I lack a proper coil and this COIL manufacturer wants on the order of $1200 for only 10 pieces. They say setup fees are necessary. Do any of you understand the setup fees and why they are so much for someone who specializes in coils in the first place ? Typically for me image #2 does not fully load but if I refresh it will then complete the load. Comments please. Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 00:04:13 +0000 Hi Geoff, The fossil is a early Cambrian I think. It might be some type of Arthropod. What species I do not know. More information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthropod http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian Can you tell me how your seismomter is going to work.=20 Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On =FEri, 2010-07-20 at 16:10 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > The Last Picture On This Page of GVA is a Rock Fossil. >=20 > This is more palientology than Seismology > But, do any of you know what this > rock fossil represents ? >=20 > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML >=20 > Also on this page is an idea I want to use and > A working but not proper model of such a > velocity sensor. I lack a proper coil > and this COIL manufacturer wants > on the order of $1200 for only 10 pieces. > They say setup fees are necessary. > Do any of you understand the setup fees and > why they are so much for someone who specializes > in coils in the first place ? >=20 > Typically for me image #2 does not fully load > but if I refresh it will then complete the load. >=20 > Comments please. >=20 > Regards, > geoff > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:27:18 -0700 Geoff - This fossil bears a close resemblance to a crinoid stem. They = date back to the Ordovician period...........Bob On Jul 20, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > The Last Picture On This Page of GVA is a Rock Fossil. >=20 > This is more palientology than Seismology > But, do any of you know what this > rock fossil represents ? >=20 > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:14:14 -0700 Hello Mr. Frímann; NOT SURE, After thinking since 1994, BUT; I would like to build something like I saw At ASU which could recreate three dimensions from only two sensors that were like inverted pendulums placed 90 degrees from each other at an agle of 30 to 45 degrees. But i would need a special A/D converter that would digitize two discrete signals simultaneously in synchrony, and stuff I just dont have. When At 45 degrees the signal is split by trig into vert and N/S or Vert and E/W you need TRIG to recreate the original signals but I do not care about the three seperate whatevers. Only first time of arrival and S-P times and Possibly surface waves at 20 seconds. If I could build ONLY a single sensor, sensitive to motion no matter what the direction. Thats what I , as an Amateur, really want. I have thought capacitive with a sphere inside a sphere if at all possible ??? [request you check JOKER] "Please Excuse My Dangling Participles and Parenthetical Insertions" "Please excuse my love of fun and games" Thanks For your response. Best regards, geoff p.s. What happend to Chris ? Hes like the only Instrumentation Engineer type in PSN that i know of. Possibly Larry but not sure, Larry might br a businessman instead of Engineer. In anything Amateur Anyone might be anything at all. A wonderful place for Agents of all kind. I often think of those Russian and Chinese folks who are not really Amateur due to the fact their government pays their way through whatever and trains them too at government expense where in the usa they train themselves ? In the USA we ,with an encyclopedia, must compete against people in other countries who have the equivelent of a PHD. Here, few REAL scientists/engineers/technologist/technicians will get involved Freely On the Internet due to the fact that their employers throw the fear of God into their souls about security breaches and patents and stuff like that. The only reason I have no fear is because they have already ruined me for anything at all with the mental health poisons and psycho labels. [ no kidding ] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jón Frímann" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 5:04 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil Hi Geoff, The fossil is a early Cambrian I think. It might be some type of Arthropod. What species I do not know. More information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthropod http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambrian Can you tell me how your seismomter is going to work. Regards, Jón Frímann. On ţri, 2010-07-20 at 16:10 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > The Last Picture On This Page of GVA is a Rock Fossil. > > This is more palientology than Seismology > But, do any of you know what this > rock fossil represents ? > > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML > > Also on this page is an idea I want to use and > A working but not proper model of such a > velocity sensor. I lack a proper coil > and this COIL manufacturer wants > on the order of $1200 for only 10 pieces. > They say setup fees are necessary. > Do any of you understand the setup fees and > why they are so much for someone who specializes > in coils in the first place ? > > Typically for me image #2 does not fully load > but if I refresh it will then complete the load. > > Comments please. > > Regards, > geoff > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:28:30 -0700 Thanks Bob, It looks a bit familiar to me but insect like sort of but not exactly like one of those bug like things at the bottom of the ocean. It looks like the inside skeleton of a big bug. There are two curly horn like things at one end which you see just the tip of in the rock. I can imagine fangs or legs and stuff when looking at the real thing. Sort of like sometime in the Cambrian period when Life was just getting started. You see other stuff not related to the thing except in time also in the mud like stone. It appears simply as light streaks in the rock. I guess most all fossils are found in sedimentary like rock. It is my guess this might come from somewhere in the mountains of Arizona, since it was found in my parents yard as one of those rock hound thing decorations in their yard. The previous owner was known to collect Trilobites or something like them. This thing might be from the same time period. This thing makes me want to go into the hills and crack open anything that looks like mudstone river rock. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Hancock" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 8:27 PM Subject: Re: Velocity Sensor Hopeful and Unknown Rock Fossil Geoff - This fossil bears a close resemblance to a crinoid stem. They date back to the Ordovician period...........Bob On Jul 20, 2010, at 4:10 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > The Last Picture On This Page of GVA is a Rock Fossil. > > This is more palientology than Seismology > But, do any of you know what this > rock fossil represents ? > > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interrogative From: ChrisAtUpw@....... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 02:59:34 EDT Hi Geoff Thank you for your enquiry. Chris has been in hospital for 6 weeks now, on the Critical Care Unit. But there is progress. He is off his ventilator, and will shortly be transferred to a normal ward. He is as weak as a kitten, and it will be some time before he will be able to type, but I am keeping all your correspence to entertain him during his long convalescence. Best wishes Dianne
Hi Geoff
 
  Thank you for your enquiry. Chris has bee= n in=20 hospital for 6 weeks now, on the Critical Care Unit. But there is progress= .. He=20 is off his ventilator, and will shortly be transferred to a normal ward.= He is=20 as weak as a kitten, and it will be some time before he will be able to ty= pe,=20 but I am keeping all your correspence to entertain him during his long=20 convalescence.
 
    Best wishes
 
  Dianne
Subject: Re: Interrogative From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 07:55:21 -0500 ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > Hi Geoff > > Thank you for your enquiry. Chris has been in hospital for 6 weeks > now, on the Critical Care Unit. But there is progress. He is off his > ventilator, and will shortly be transferred to a normal ward. He is as > weak as a kitten, and it will be some time before he will be able to > type, but I am keeping all your correspence to entertain him during > his long convalescence. > > Best wishes > > Dianne I have held my breath waiting gor good news .... tell him to make positive progress as quickly as he can ... and keep us in the news loop .... missed him! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Interrogative From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 08:42:18 -0700 Hello Ms. Dianne, This is all quite interesting yet it is not that he is there that interests me so much as how he arrived in such a condition. Was it act of man (murder) or an act of nature (struck by lightning) which caused him to be so messed up ?? If its act of nature we all share similar threats. But if its act of man its like, totally unacceptable. It would be interesting to know if the police are involved to even the slightest degree. People are supposed to be smarter than mother nature, or the world will never be properly civilized. There is nothing I can do about any of it myself except possibly send a get well card, Just want to know why anyone gets messed up then, I might (not likely) be able to avoid it myself. Oh, and by the way. Wasn't Dianne some Roman or Greek Goddess of War ? Thanks For your Responses, Best Regards, geoff ps. For The Record; I blame my own condition on another people, who are not my own. Knowing full well I shall die too young for the stress alone they have put me to. I hope he was not up against such a group, also. They are so smart and cold and tenacious you might think of them not as a group but as a single alien enemy from another world. I had no protection offered to me by my country, against them/It . They were free to exercise their hostilities against me. There is no evidence of Rights enforcement within the USA during my own lifetime. As a group they are so brave to pick on a relatively weak individual, namely ME. I have never met another soul with the same problems as myself. This Group is very artistic like a CIA/ or its equivalent. They do as a group, only socially acceptable forms of major crime. They are a large group who are well educated and well organized and to me, seem ancient. Like some kind of hideous religion. They hide seamlessly in the crowd. Only an expert can ID them. Difficult , even for cops, to deal with. But one thing seems consistant. They are as a race Caucasian, and as a group, They are ruthless, yet as an individual they may be the perfect lovable human. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:59 PM Subject: Re: Interrogative > Hi Geoff > > Thank you for your enquiry. Chris has been in hospital for 6 weeks now, > on the Critical Care Unit. But there is progress. He is off his ventilator, > and will shortly be transferred to a normal ward. He is as weak as a > kitten, and it will be some time before he will be able to type, but I am > keeping all your correspence to entertain him during his long convalescence. > > Best wishes > > Dianne > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: A Sticky Question From: Jan Froom JDarwin@............. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 09:40:07 -0700 When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is really too small to see with the naked eye... so I had to use several bright lights so I could see reflections off the wire. I used an old tape recorder drive motor... I put it on a rheostat so I could ramp up the speed. With a wire that fine once you start... there was no stopping until you were done... any jerking, or restarting always resulted in the wire breaking. And there was no repair... just heating the wire was enough to make it brittle and it would snap just bending it. The other bad part of using that size wire... was that you never knew if the initial connection, at the beginning of the wind, was any good until you were done... and could check for continuity. But you could sure get a lot of turns on a little one inch in diameter spool. Jan in Gilroy Chris... if you're reading any of this... We're glad to hear you are getting better and we're all looking forward to your return. We miss your help and insight to the whys and what's of this hobby. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: jzambory@......... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:44:21 -0600 (MDT)
And I thought I was crazy making my coil with 40 ga wire.
 
I am impressed!
 
Jeff


Jul 21, 2010 09:40:47 AM, psn-l@.............. wrote:
When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is really
too small to see with the naked eye...
so I had to use several bright lights so I could see reflections off the
wire.
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: jzambory@......... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 10:44:23 -0600 (MDT)
And I thought I was crazy making my coil with 40 ga wire.
 
I am impressed!
 
Jeff


Jul 21, 2010 09:40:47 AM, psn-l@.............. wrote:
When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is really
too small to see with the naked eye...
so I had to use several bright lights so I could see reflections off the
wire.
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 14:18:41 -0600 Jerry, Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that need to be glued. As far as commercially available brands (USA), there is one plastic glue I've come to favor; and that is Devcon brand, Plastic Welder. Its a two part mixing glue that is meant for a variety of materials like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and concrete). Net volume 25ml. Available in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources; for roughly $6. Its a plunger outlet nozzle. A little can go a long ways with your use. One problem with re-use is clearing out the plunger tips with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow. It's flammable, stinky stuff, and best to ventilate or use outdoors. It makes no mention of being waterproof; but I've used such in a magnet/metal holding fixture in a bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet. This does not bond to polyethylene or polypropylene plastics. I've used it on cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon plate to carbon plate with amazing (no failure yet, over ~ 2 years). Some of these parts come into physical force contact and separation; but thus far its has been holding well. Once mixed it begins to harden very fast. Although tricky to do, removing unwanted excess might call for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unwanted excess off with a damp cloth. I usually let it dry for a full day; but it could be shorter duration. How well, long term it actually holds is probably dependent somewhat on having clean surfaces to begin with. The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the forces exposed to with coil winding forms. One might conceivably try out bonding scrap pieces, letting dry, and physically trying to separate, bend, torque them; before application into your final project. Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its relegated only to metal & wood, concrete, glass & china and ceramics. Probably good for ~ frame parts holding. Take care, Meredith On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton wrote: > In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and > ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search > using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) > > Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by > Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. > > Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped > ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a > rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick > together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried > several without satisfaction. > > If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & > glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. > > Regards, > Jerry > > > Jerry,

Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that = need to be glued.

As far as commercially available brands (USA), the= re is one plastic glue I've come to favor; and that is
Devcon brand,= Plastic Welder.=A0 Its a two part mixing glue that is meant for a variety = of materials
like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and concrete).= =A0 Net volume 25ml.=A0 Available
in Ace Hardware stores and likely a va= riety of other sources; for roughly $6.=A0 Its a plunger outlet nozzle.
= A little can go a long ways with your use.=A0 One problem with re-use is cl= earing out the plunger tips
with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow.=A0 It's flammable, stinky stuff,= and best to ventilate or use outdoors.
It makes no mention of being wat= erproof; but I've used such in a magnet/metal holding fixture in a
bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet.=A0 This does not bond = to polyethylene or polypropylene
plastics.

I've used it on cl= oth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon plate to carbon = plate with amazing
(no failure yet, over ~ 2 years).=A0 Some of these parts come into physical= force contact and separation;
but thus far its has been holding well.
Once mixed it begins to harden very fast.=A0 Although tricky to do, r= emoving unwanted excess might call
for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unw= anted excess off with a damp cloth.
I usually let it dry for a full day;= but it could be shorter duration.

How well, long term it actually h= olds is probably dependent somewhat on having clean surfaces to begin
with.=A0 The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as = to the forces exposed to with coil
winding forms.=A0 One might conceivab= ly try out bonding scrap pieces, letting dry, and physically trying
to s= eparate, bend, torque them; before application into your final project.

Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy"= ;, but its relegated only to metal & wood,
concrete, glass & chi= na and ceramics.=A0 Probably good for ~ frame parts holding.

Take c= are, Meredith

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton <gpayton@uspayto= ns.com> wrote:
In=A0years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" co= il winder=20 and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.=A0 (As you know, you have to= =20 search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right=A0to be=20 successful.)
=A0
Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with.=A0 The EBay choices= =20 shown by Barry are interesting.=A0 Thanks, Barry.
=A0
Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped=20 ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.=A0 And, if I tried to construc= t=20 a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to st= ick=20 together!=A0 I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive.=A0 I=20 tried several without satisfaction.
=A0
If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials &= amp;=20 glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.
=A0
Regards,
Jerry
=A0
=A0

Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:33:02 -0500 Thank you SOOOO much, Meredith! This input is exactly what I was looking for. Some of my replies got off on the wire and winding, which is still good information, but not exactly what I was seeking. Do you have a preference or recommendations of material to make the coil bobbin? As I mentioned, Chris had suggested the Epoxy Glass PCB material, but I had problems trying to construct the spool with such small dimensions and the adhesive too. Thanks again, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: Re: A Sticky Question Jerry, Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that need to be glued. As far as commercially available brands (USA), there is one plastic glue I've come to favor; and that is Devcon brand, Plastic Welder. Its a two part mixing glue that is meant for a variety of materials like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and concrete). Net volume 25ml. Available in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources; for roughly $6. Its a plunger outlet nozzle. A little can go a long ways with your use. One problem with re-use is clearing out the plunger tips with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow. It's flammable, stinky stuff, and best to ventilate or use outdoors. It makes no mention of being waterproof; but I've used such in a magnet/metal holding fixture in a bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet. This does not bond to polyethylene or polypropylene plastics. I've used it on cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon plate to carbon plate with amazing (no failure yet, over ~ 2 years). Some of these parts come into physical force contact and separation; but thus far its has been holding well. Once mixed it begins to harden very fast. Although tricky to do, removing unwanted excess might call for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unwanted excess off with a damp cloth. I usually let it dry for a full day; but it could be shorter duration. How well, long term it actually holds is probably dependent somewhat on having clean surfaces to begin with. The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the forces exposed to with coil winding forms. One might conceivably try out bonding scrap pieces, letting dry, and physically trying to separate, bend, torque them; before application into your final project. Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its relegated only to metal & wood, concrete, glass & china and ceramics. Probably good for ~ frame parts holding. Take care, Meredith ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton wrote: In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. Regards, Jerry
Thank you SOOOO much, Meredith!  This input is exactly what I = was=20 looking for.  Some of my replies got off on the wire and winding, = which is=20 still good information, but not exactly what I was seeking.
 
Do you have a preference or recommendations of material to make the = coil=20 bobbin?  As I mentioned, Chris had suggested the Epoxy Glass PCB = material,=20 but I had problems trying to construct the spool with such small = dimensions and=20 the adhesive too.
 
Thanks again,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 = 3:18=20 PM
Subject: Re: A Sticky = Question

Jerry,

Yes, glue is a real problem over a = variety of=20 materials that need to be glued.

As far as commercially = available=20 brands (USA), there is one plastic glue I've come to favor; and that=20 is
Devcon brand, Plastic Welder.  Its a two part mixing glue = that is=20 meant for a variety of materials
like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc = piping,=20 fiberglass (and metals and concrete).  Net volume 25ml. =20 Available
in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other = sources; for=20 roughly $6.  Its a plunger outlet nozzle.
A little can go a = long ways=20 with your use.  One problem with re-use is clearing out the = plunger=20 tips
with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow.  It's flammable, = stinky=20 stuff, and best to ventilate or use outdoors.
It makes no mention = of being=20 waterproof; but I've used such in a magnet/metal holding fixture in=20 a
bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet.  This = does not=20 bond to polyethylene or polypropylene
plastics.

I've used it = on=20 cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon plate to = carbon=20 plate with amazing
(no failure yet, over ~ 2 years).  Some of = these=20 parts come into physical force contact and separation;
but thus far = its has=20 been holding well.

Once mixed it begins to harden very = fast. =20 Although tricky to do, removing unwanted excess might call
for = another=20 person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unwanted = excess=20 off with a damp cloth.
I usually let it dry for a full day; but it = could be=20 shorter duration.

How well, long term it actually holds is = probably=20 dependent somewhat on having clean surfaces to begin
with.  = The actual=20 holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the forces = exposed to=20 with coil
winding forms.  One might conceivably try out = bonding scrap=20 pieces, letting dry, and physically trying
to separate, bend, = torque them;=20 before application into your final project.

Another glue is the = same=20 brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its relegated only to metal = &=20 wood,
concrete, glass & china and ceramics.  Probably good = for ~=20 frame parts holding.

Take care, Meredith


On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton = <gpayton@.............>=20 wrote:
In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" = coil=20 winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.  (As you = know, you=20 have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just=20 right to be successful.)
 
Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with.  The EBay = choices=20 shown by Barry are interesting.  Thanks, Barry.
 
Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper = shaped=20 ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.  And, if I tried = to=20 construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the = sandwiched=20 parts to stick together!  I suppose that I did not have the = correct=20 adhesive.  I tried several without satisfaction.
 
If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, = materials=20 & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
=
 

= Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: meredith lamb paleoartifact@......... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:00:50 -0600 Hi Jerry, Actually I've no real recommendations as too material. As too the implications of the thickness I'd be more prone to use as thick a material (i.e., 1/16" or better) as possible just for pure mechanical long term holding properties. Once winding begins then the expansion forces naturally begin to try to "break" the glued material bonds; and such may well be seen long term. Realistically; it's like wrapping wire around your finger, the mounting pressure begins to hurt with more and more wire wraps. Coil frame deformation is too be expected. Epoxy glass PCB is pretty tough stuff as is; but the glued joints will be the weakest member irregardless. I'm sure I'll hear text "screaming" if I recommended something like 1/8" thick PCB board; but, it would sure be much more solid long term than anything else. Yes; the thickness is rather ancient electronically, but it might be found surplus I suppose....or simply glue two 1/16" thick plates together. Yes; I suppose it would likely upset some of the coil dimensions or, of course, the obvious lesser magnetic field intensity with its use. Chris's original square coil design is a difficult project for sure. Sometimes I wonder if a (~pure) copper plate couldn't achieve the same "coil frame", and with silver solder to the joints (and cleanup filing), might even be sufficiently strong and yet also give somewhat of a eddy current motion dampening. Hopefully in time; perhaps Chris be feeling better enough to tell me, us, that; that approach is ~ so and so.......... :>) Take care, Meredith On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:33 PM, GPayton wrote: > Thank you SOOOO much, Meredith! This input is exactly what I was looking > for. Some of my replies got off on the wire and winding, which is still > good information, but not exactly what I was seeking. > > Do you have a preference or recommendations of material to make the coil > bobbin? As I mentioned, Chris had suggested the Epoxy Glass PCB material, > but I had problems trying to construct the spool with such small dimensions > and the adhesive too. > > Thanks again, > Jerry > ------------------------------ > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* meredith lamb > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:18 PM > *Subject:* Re: A Sticky Question > > Jerry, > > Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that need to be > glued. > > As far as commercially available brands (USA), there is one plastic glue > I've come to favor; and that is > Devcon brand, Plastic Welder. Its a two part mixing glue that is meant for > a variety of materials > like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and > concrete). Net volume 25ml. Available > in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources; for roughly > $6. Its a plunger outlet nozzle. > A little can go a long ways with your use. One problem with re-use is > clearing out the plunger tips > with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow. It's flammable, stinky stuff, and > best to ventilate or use outdoors. > It makes no mention of being waterproof; but I've used such in a > magnet/metal holding fixture in a > bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet. This does not bond to > polyethylene or polypropylene > plastics. > > I've used it on cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) > carbon plate to carbon plate with amazing > (no failure yet, over ~ 2 years). Some of these parts come into physical > force contact and separation; > but thus far its has been holding well. > > Once mixed it begins to harden very fast. Although tricky to do, removing > unwanted excess might call > for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the > unwanted excess off with a damp cloth. > I usually let it dry for a full day; but it could be shorter duration. > > How well, long term it actually holds is probably dependent somewhat on > having clean surfaces to begin > with. The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the > forces exposed to with coil > winding forms. One might conceivably try out bonding scrap pieces, letting > dry, and physically trying > to separate, bend, torque them; before application into your final project. > > Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its > relegated only to metal & wood, > concrete, glass & china and ceramics. Probably good for ~ frame parts > holding. > > Take care, Meredith > ------------------------------ > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton wrote: > >> In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and >> ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search >> using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) >> >> Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown >> by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. >> >> Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped >> ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a >> rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick >> together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried >> several without satisfaction. >> >> If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & >> glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. >> >> Regards, >> Jerry >> >> >> > > Hi Jerry,

Actually I've no real recommendations as too material.= =A0 As too the implications of the thickness I'd be more
prone to us= e as thick a material (i.e., 1/16" or better) as possible just for pur= e mechanical long term holding properties.
Once winding begins then the expansion forces naturally begin to try to &qu= ot;break" the glued material bonds; and
such may well be seen long = term.=A0 Realistically; it's like wrapping wire around your finger, the= mounting pressure
begins to hurt with more and more wire wraps.=A0 Coil frame deformation is = too be expected.=A0 Epoxy glass PCB
is pretty tough stuff as is; but the= glued joints will be the weakest member irregardless.

I'm sure = I'll hear text "screaming" if I recommended something like 1/= 8" thick PCB board; but, it would sure
be much more solid long term than anything else.=A0 Yes; the thickness is r= ather ancient electronically, but
it might be found surplus I suppose...= ..or simply glue two 1/16" thick plates together.=A0 Yes; I suppose it = would
likely upset some of the coil dimensions or, of course, the obvious lesser = magnetic field intensity with its use.

Chris's original square c= oil design is a difficult project for sure.=A0 Sometimes I wonder if a (~pu= re) copper plate couldn't
achieve the same "coil frame", and with silver solder to the join= ts (and cleanup filing), might even be sufficiently strong
and yet also = give somewhat of a eddy current motion dampening.=A0 Hopefully in time; per= haps Chris be feeling better
enough to tell me, us, that; that approach is ~ so and so..........=A0 :>= ;)

Take care, Meredith=A0

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:33 PM, G= Payton <gpayt= on@.............> wrote:
Thank you SOOOO much, Meredith!=A0 This input is exactly what I was=20 looking for.=A0 Some of my replies got off on the wire and winding, which i= s=20 still good information, but not exactly what I was seeking.
=A0
Do you have a preference or recommendations of material to make the co= il=20 bobbin?=A0 As I mentioned, Chris had suggested the Epoxy Glass PCB material= ,=20 but I had problems trying to construct the spool with such small dimensions= and=20 the adhesive too.
=A0
Thanks again,
Jerry

----- Original Message -----
From:=20 meredith lamb
Sent: Wed= nesday, July 21, 2010 3:18=20 PM
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question

Jerry,

Yes,= glue is a real problem over a variety of=20 materials that need to be glued.

As far as commercially available= =20 brands (USA), there is one plastic glue I've come to favor; and that= =20 is
Devcon brand, Plastic Welder.=A0 Its a two part mixing glue that is= =20 meant for a variety of materials
like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping,= =20 fiberglass (and metals and concrete).=A0 Net volume 25ml.=A0=20 Available
in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources= ; for=20 roughly $6.=A0 Its a plunger outlet nozzle.
A little can go a long way= s=20 with your use.=A0 One problem with re-use is clearing out the plunger=20 tips
with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow.=A0 It's flammable, sti= nky=20 stuff, and best to ventilate or use outdoors.
It makes no mention of b= eing=20 waterproof; but I've used such in a magnet/metal holding fixture in= =20 a
bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet.=A0 This does no= t=20 bond to polyethylene or polypropylene
plastics.

I've used i= t on=20 cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon plate to car= bon=20 plate with amazing
(no failure yet, over ~ 2 years).=A0 Some of these= =20 parts come into physical force contact and separation;
but thus far it= s has=20 been holding well.

Once mixed it begins to harden very fast.=A0=20 Although tricky to do, removing unwanted excess might call
for another= =20 person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unwanted exce= ss=20 off with a damp cloth.
I usually let it dry for a full day; but it cou= ld be=20 shorter duration.

How well, long term it actually holds is probabl= y=20 dependent somewhat on having clean surfaces to begin
with.=A0 The actu= al=20 holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the forces expo= sed to=20 with coil
winding forms.=A0 One might conceivably try out bonding scra= p=20 pieces, letting dry, and physically trying
to separate, bend, torque t= hem;=20 before application into your final project.

Another glue is the sa= me=20 brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its relegated only t= o metal &=20 wood,
concrete, glass & china and ceramics.=A0 Probably good for ~= =20 frame parts holding.

Take care, Meredith


On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton <gpayton@.............>=20 wrote:
In=A0years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual"= ; coil=20 winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.=A0 (As you know, y= ou=20 have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just=20 right=A0to be successful.)
=A0
Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with.=A0 The EBay choic= es=20 shown by Barry are interesting.=A0 Thanks, Barry.
=A0
Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped= =20 ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.=A0 And, if I tried to=20 construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwich= ed=20 parts to stick together!=A0 I suppose that I did not have the correct= =20 adhesive.=A0 I tried several without satisfaction.
=A0
If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materia= ls=20 & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.
=A0
Regards,
Jerry
=A0
=A0


Subject: RE: A Sticky Question From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 15:56:53 -0700 Meredith and Jerry, I didn't have a problem with Chris' rectangular design. I used a Dremel tool disk to cut slots in the PCB material. I built the form in 2 steps. First laid one side flat on wax paper and then inserted the spacers in the slots and epoxied the parts. After they set up for about an hour, I turned it over inserted the first assembled part into the other side piece and epoxied the complete assembly. Then let it cure over night. I filed down the sharp edges of the spacer parts and it's ready to start winding. I wrapped a slice of parchment paper around the center section before winding wire. If the wire breaks, unwind it and start over again. This is a learning process. I used Duco Cement smear around the wire at the very end to lock it in place. Gary From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of meredith lamb Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:01 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: A Sticky Question Hi Jerry, Actually I've no real recommendations as too material. As too the implications of the thickness I'd be more prone to use as thick a material (i.e., 1/16" or better) as possible just for pure mechanical long term holding properties. Once winding begins then the expansion forces naturally begin to try to "break" the glued material bonds; and such may well be seen long term. Realistically; it's like wrapping wire around your finger, the mounting pressure begins to hurt with more and more wire wraps. Coil frame deformation is too be expected. Epoxy glass PCB is pretty tough stuff as is; but the glued joints will be the weakest member irregardless. I'm sure I'll hear text "screaming" if I recommended something like 1/8" thick PCB board; but, it would sure be much more solid long term than anything else. Yes; the thickness is rather ancient electronically, but it might be found surplus I suppose....or simply glue two 1/16" thick plates together. Yes; I suppose it would likely upset some of the coil dimensions or, of course, the obvious lesser magnetic field intensity with its use. Chris's original square coil design is a difficult project for sure. Sometimes I wonder if a (~pure) copper plate couldn't achieve the same "coil frame", and with silver solder to the joints (and cleanup filing), might even be sufficiently strong and yet also give somewhat of a eddy current motion dampening. Hopefully in time; perhaps Chris be feeling better enough to tell me, us, that; that approach is ~ so and so.......... :>) Take care, Meredith On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:33 PM, GPayton wrote: Thank you SOOOO much, Meredith! This input is exactly what I was looking for. Some of my replies got off on the wire and winding, which is still good information, but not exactly what I was seeking. Do you have a preference or recommendations of material to make the coil bobbin? As I mentioned, Chris had suggested the Epoxy Glass PCB material, but I had problems trying to construct the spool with such small dimensions and the adhesive too. Thanks again, Jerry _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: meredith lamb To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:18 PM Subject: Re: A Sticky Question Jerry, Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that need to be glued. As far as commercially available brands (USA), there is one plastic glue I've come to favor; and that is Devcon brand, Plastic Welder. Its a two part mixing glue that is meant for a variety of materials like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and concrete). Net volume 25ml. Available in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources; for roughly $6. Its a plunger outlet nozzle. A little can go a long ways with your use. One problem with re-use is clearing out the plunger tips with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow. It's flammable, stinky stuff, and best to ventilate or use outdoors. It makes no mention of being waterproof; but I've used such in a magnet/metal holding fixture in a bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet. This does not bond to polyethylene or polypropylene plastics. I've used it on cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon plate to carbon plate with amazing (no failure yet, over ~ 2 years). Some of these parts come into physical force contact and separation; but thus far its has been holding well. Once mixed it begins to harden very fast. Although tricky to do, removing unwanted excess might call for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unwanted excess off with a damp cloth. I usually let it dry for a full day; but it could be shorter duration. How well, long term it actually holds is probably dependent somewhat on having clean surfaces to begin with. The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the forces exposed to with coil winding forms. One might conceivably try out bonding scrap pieces, letting dry, and physically trying to separate, bend, torque them; before application into your final project. Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its relegated only to metal & wood, concrete, glass & china and ceramics. Probably good for ~ frame parts holding. Take care, Meredith _____ On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton wrote: In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried several without satisfaction. If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. Regards, Jerry

Meredith and Jerry,

I didn't have a problem with Chris' rectangular design. I = used a Dremel tool disk to cut slots in the PCB material. I built the form in 2 = steps. First laid one side flat on wax paper and then inserted the spacers in = the slots and epoxied the parts. After they set up for about an hour, I = turned it over inserted the first assembled part into the other side piece and = epoxied the complete assembly. Then let it cure over night. I filed down the = sharp edges of the spacer parts and it's ready to start winding. I wrapped a = slice of parchment paper around the center section before winding wire. If the = wire breaks, unwind it and start over again. This is a learning process. I = used Duco Cement smear around the wire at the very end to lock it in = place.

Gary

 

 

 

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of meredith lamb
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:01 PM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question

 

Hi Jerry,

Actually I've no real recommendations as too material.  As too the implications of the thickness I'd be more
prone to use as thick a material (i.e., 1/16" or better) as = possible just for pure mechanical long term holding properties.
Once winding begins then the expansion forces naturally begin to try to "break" the glued material bonds; and
such may well be seen long term.  Realistically; it's like wrapping = wire around your finger, the mounting pressure
begins to hurt with more and more wire wraps.  Coil frame = deformation is too be expected.  Epoxy glass PCB
is pretty tough stuff as is; but the glued joints will be the weakest = member irregardless.

I'm sure I'll hear text "screaming" if I recommended something = like 1/8" thick PCB board; but, it would sure
be much more solid long term than anything else.  Yes; the = thickness is rather ancient electronically, but
it might be found surplus I suppose....or simply glue two 1/16" = thick plates together.  Yes; I suppose it would
likely upset some of the coil dimensions or, of course, the obvious = lesser magnetic field intensity with its use.

Chris's original square coil design is a difficult project for = sure.  Sometimes I wonder if a (~pure) copper plate couldn't
achieve the same "coil frame", and with silver solder to the = joints (and cleanup filing), might even be sufficiently strong
and yet also give somewhat of a eddy current motion dampening.  = Hopefully in time; perhaps Chris be feeling better
enough to tell me, us, that; that approach is ~ so and = so..........  :>)

Take care, Meredith 

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:33 PM, GPayton <gpayton@.............> = wrote:

Thank you SOOOO much, Meredith!  This input is = exactly what I was looking for.  Some of my replies got off on the wire and winding, which is still good information, but not exactly what I was = seeking.

 

Do you have a preference or recommendations of = material to make the coil bobbin?  As I mentioned, Chris had suggested the = Epoxy Glass PCB material, but I had problems trying to construct the spool with such = small dimensions and the adhesive too.

 

Thanks again,

Jerry


----- Original Message -----

From: meredith lamb =

Sent:<= /b> Wednesday, = July 21, 2010 3:18 PM

Subject: Re: A = Sticky Question

 

Jerry,

Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that need to be = glued.

As far as commercially available brands (USA), there is one plastic glue = I've come to favor; and that is
Devcon brand, Plastic Welder.  Its a two part mixing glue that is = meant for a variety of materials
like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and concrete).  Net volume 25ml.  Available
in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources; for = roughly $6.  Its a plunger outlet nozzle.
A little can go a long ways with your use.  One problem with re-use = is clearing out the plunger tips
with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow.  It's flammable, stinky = stuff, and best to ventilate or use outdoors.
It makes no mention of being waterproof; but I've used such in a = magnet/metal holding fixture in a
bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet.  This does not = bond to polyethylene or polypropylene
plastics.

I've used it on cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) = carbon plate to carbon plate with amazing
(no failure yet, over ~ 2 years).  Some of these parts come into = physical force contact and separation;
but thus far its has been holding well.

Once mixed it begins to harden very fast.  Although tricky to do, = removing unwanted excess might call
for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the unwanted excess off with a damp cloth.
I usually let it dry for a full day; but it could be shorter = duration.

How well, long term it actually holds is probably dependent somewhat on = having clean surfaces to begin
with.  The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all = as to the forces exposed to with coil
winding forms.  One might conceivably try out bonding scrap pieces, letting dry, and physically trying
to separate, bend, torque them; before application into your final = project.

Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute = epoxy", but its relegated only to metal & wood,
concrete, glass & china and ceramics.  Probably good for ~ = frame parts holding.

Take care, Meredith


 

On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton <gpayton@.............> wrote:

In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and ended up with an old fashioned had drill.  (As you know, you have to search using the correct words or = your mouth pursed just right to be successful.)

 

Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up = with.  The EBay choices shown by Barry are interesting.  Thanks, = Barry.

 

Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding = proper shaped ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil.  And, if I = tried to construct a rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the = sandwiched parts to stick together!  I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive.  I tried several without satisfaction.

 

If anyone knows the secret to building a = rectangular form, materials & glue, I'd appreciate knowing it.

 

Regards,

Jerry

 

 

 

 

Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:32:37 -0700 Interesting, I have never heard of 50AWG wire unless that was what they used in pairs for the expendable bathy thermograph probe I used to drop in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Very fine hair like wire was wound on a spool in lengths of like 2000 feet or so to connect the temperature recorder to a probe. You drop the probe in the ocean never to be seen again. I had never seen such fine wire before, it makes me think of wire guided missles. I have read that the cross section of copper is more important than the number of turns. Also semiconductors are current devices and not voltage devices so you should be able to get one to work with only a couple turns of heavy wire. I just cant imagine how they make a 50AWG B&S wire. 300 million years from now some new specie of intelligent life will find fossil products of technology I dumped in the ocean so long ago. But there wont be any fossil or nuclear fuels left for them to use. Just our old technology remnants to find. ???? OK! , It may be a delusion ?????? Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan Froom" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:40 AM Subject: A Sticky Question > When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is really > too small to see with the naked eye... > so I had to use several bright lights so I could see reflections off the > wire. > I used an old tape recorder drive motor... I put it on a rheostat so I > could ramp up the speed. > > With a wire that fine once you start... there was no stopping until you > were done... any jerking, or > restarting always resulted in the wire breaking. > And there was no repair... just heating the wire was enough to make it > brittle and it would snap just bending it. > > The other bad part of using that size wire... was that you never knew if > the initial connection, at the beginning of > the wind, was any good until you were done... and could check for > continuity. > > But you could sure get a lot of turns on a little one inch in diameter > spool. > > Jan in Gilroy > > Chris... if you're reading any of this... We're glad to hear you are > getting better and we're all looking forward to your return. > We miss your help and insight to the whys and what's of this hobby. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 17:51:31 -0700 I have used successfully in the past the clear two part epoxy glue to fasten plastic terminal strips to the outside of coffee cans. They took quite a bit of torque and never failed but you need very clean surfaces like use 99% alcohol to clean the surfaces then clean them again of the alcohol residue after it dries. For wet places goto the boat section at Walmart where there is some very expensive marine two part epoxy which might be water proof. I just tried it outside to see how well it works. 24 hours untouched is necessary for a solid cure. No matter the set time. Even with super glue. ----- Original Message ----- From: "meredith lamb" To: Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 1:18 PM Subject: Re: A Sticky Question > Jerry, > > Yes, glue is a real problem over a variety of materials that need to be > glued. > > As far as commercially available brands (USA), there is one plastic glue > I've come to favor; and that is > Devcon brand, Plastic Welder. Its a two part mixing glue that is meant for > a variety of materials > like hard plastic, vinyl, pvc piping, fiberglass (and metals and concrete). > Net volume 25ml. Available > in Ace Hardware stores and likely a variety of other sources; for roughly > $6. Its a plunger outlet nozzle. > A little can go a long ways with your use. One problem with re-use is > clearing out the plunger tips > with a nail (etc.) to allow free flow. It's flammable, stinky stuff, and > best to ventilate or use outdoors. > It makes no mention of being waterproof; but I've used such in a > magnet/metal holding fixture in a > bathroom for ~ 3 years; and has seen no failure yet. This does not bond to > polyethylene or polypropylene > plastics. > > I've used it on cloth to metal, metal to rubber and once even (clean) carbon > plate to carbon plate with amazing > (no failure yet, over ~ 2 years). Some of these parts come into physical > force contact and separation; > but thus far its has been holding well. > > Once mixed it begins to harden very fast. Although tricky to do, removing > unwanted excess might call > for another person (or holder) to hold the glued object, and wiping the > unwanted excess off with a damp cloth. > I usually let it dry for a full day; but it could be shorter duration. > > How well, long term it actually holds is probably dependent somewhat on > having clean surfaces to begin > with. The actual holding force is unknown...I'am not sure at all as to the > forces exposed to with coil > winding forms. One might conceivably try out bonding scrap pieces, letting > dry, and physically trying > to separate, bend, torque them; before application into your final project. > > Another glue is the same brand; Devcon 2 part "5 minute epoxy", but its > relegated only to metal & wood, > concrete, glass & china and ceramics. Probably good for ~ frame parts > holding. > > Take care, Meredith > > On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 7:42 AM, GPayton wrote: > >> In years past, I had difficulties in finding a "manual" coil winder and >> ended up with an old fashioned had drill. (As you know, you have to search >> using the correct words or your mouth pursed just right to be successful.) >> >> Anyway, that hand drill is what I ended up with. The EBay choices shown by >> Barry are interesting. Thanks, Barry. >> >> Never-the-less, in past, I had more trouble finding proper shaped >> ready-made spools or bobbins to wind a coil. And, if I tried to construct a >> rectangular shaped form, I had trouble getting the sandwiched parts to stick >> together! I suppose that I did not have the correct adhesive. I tried >> several without satisfaction. >> >> If anyone knows the secret to building a rectangular form, materials & >> glue, I'd appreciate knowing it. >> >> Regards, >> Jerry >> >> >> > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Fiber Optic Sensor ?? From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:06:14 -0700 Has anyone ever heard of a fiber optic sensor like using some kind if laser through a fiber which can be stretched this way and that to produce an interference pattern or something ? I hear if you wind a dense coil of fiber optics and run light through it you can create such a thing just from motion alone making an optical gyroscope. This guy was demonstrating it in Phoenix at a Techno Show years ago but like no one seemed to care. ( No moving parts, just a coil with light running through it) ?? Possibly monofiliment fishing line as a spring or ?? With a mass resting on it ?? How to generate an interference pattern ? Just searching for ideas. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 19:00:36 -0700 (PDT) I have wound down to=A0around 40 ga. It it can be frustrating because it ta= kes =0Avery tension to break. I have opted to wire in the 30's and used mor= e turns and =0Acloser spacer magnets. =A0What I did was take the source coi= l and put a piece of =0Amaterial thru the center like a pencil. I clamp the= pencil horizontal using one =0Aof those handsfree holders which has two al= ligator clips which I grap the pencil =0Aends with. I put this assembly on = the floor and hold the wire lightly with my =0Afingers near table height. I= think it gave me a little more slack if something =0Ahappens during the wi= nding. I only use this proceedure when I'm using a variable =0Aspeed drill.= I=A0use clear nail polish because it already has a brush and it has a =0Af= airly low viscosity.=A0I like the Idea of stopping every so often and putti= ng a =0Alight coat on the top surface of the coil. OK this the part where o= thers =0Aprobable will disagree. If the wire breaks, depending on the situa= tion, I tin =0Aboth ends with the soldering iron and attach them together a= nd continue. The =0Asplice should be short and I havent had two breaks clos= e enough together to =0Acause a short. It does leave a slight bump in the c= oil because the splice is of =0Alarger diameter as will be pretty much stra= ight.=A0If I need to know the coil =0Aresistance during the process, I expo= se the wire near where I stopped=A0with the =0Asoldering iron and measure i= t's resistance to the starting end of the =0AcoilRegards=0ABarry=0Ahttp://w= ww.seismicvault.com =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:= Jan Froom =0ATo: psn-l@...................... Wed, = July 21, 2010 9:40:07 AM=0ASubject: A Sticky Question=0A=0AWhen I wound my = coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is really too =0Asmall to se= e with the naked eye...=0Aso I had to use several bright lights so I could = see reflections off the wire.=0AI used an old tape recorder drive motor... = I put it on a rheostat so I could =0Aramp up the speed. =0A=0AWith a wire t= hat fine once you start... there was no stopping until you were =0Adone... = any jerking, or=0Arestarting always resulted in the wire breaking. And ther= e was no repair... just =0Aheating the wire was enough to make it brittle a= nd it would snap just bending =0Ait.=0A=0AThe other bad part of using that = size wire... was that you never knew if the =0Ainitial connection, at the b= eginning of=0Athe wind, was any good until you were done... and could check= for continuity.=0A=0ABut you could sure get a lot of turns on a little one= inch in diameter spool.=0A=0AJan in Gilroy=0A=0AChris... if you're reading= any of this... We're glad to hear you are getting =0Abetter and we're all = looking forward to your return.=0AWe miss your help and insight to the whys= and what's of this hobby.=0A=0A=0A________________________________________= __________________=0A=0APublic Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A=0ATo= leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the = =0Amessage (first line only): unsubscribe=0ASee http://www.seismicnet.com/m= aillist.html for more information.=0A
I have wound down to around 40 ga. It it can be f= rustrating because it takes very tension to break. I have opted to wire in = the 30's and used more turns and closer spacer magnets.  What I did wa= s take the source coil and put a piece of material thru the center like a p= encil. I clamp the pencil horizontal using one of those handsfree holders w= hich has two alligator clips which I grap the pencil ends with. I put this = assembly on the floor and hold the wire lightly with my fingers near table = height. I think it gave me a little more slack if something happens during = the winding. I only use this proceedure when I'm using a variable speed dri= ll. I use clear nail polish because it already has a brush and it has = a fairly low viscosity. I like the Idea of stopping every so often and putting a light coat on the top surface of the coil. OK this the part = where others probable will disagree. If the wire breaks, depending on th= e situation, I tin both ends with the soldering iron and attach them to= gether and continue. The splice should be short and I havent had two breaks= close enough together to cause a short. It does leave a slight bump in the= coil because the splice is of larger diameter as will be pretty much strai= ght. If I need to know the coil resistance during the process, I expos= e the wire near where I stopped with the soldering iron and measure it= 's resistance to the starting end of the coil
Regards
Barry
http://www.se= ismicvault.com =0A

=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom:<= /SPAN> Jan Froom <JDarwin@.............>
To: psn-l@..............
Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 9:40:07 AM
Subject: A Sticky Question

When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is rea= lly too small to see with the naked eye...
so I had to use several brigh= t lights so I could see reflections off the wire.
I used an old tape rec= order drive motor... I put it on a rheostat so I could ramp up the speed. <= BR>With a wire that fine once you start... there was no stopping until you = were done... any jerking, or
restarting always resulted in the wire brea= king. And there was no repair... just heating the wire was enough to make i= t brittle and it would snap just bending it.

The other bad part of u= sing that size wire... was that you never knew if the initial connection, at the beginning of
the wind,= was any good until you were done... and could check for continuity.
But you could sure get a lot of turns on a little one inch in diameter spo= ol.

Jan in Gilroy

Chris... if you're reading any of this... W= e're glad to hear you are getting better and we're all looking forward to y= our return.
We miss your help and insight to the whys and what's of this= hobby.


________________________________________________________= __

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)

To leave this = list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the b= ody of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismic= net.com/maillist.html for more information.
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 22:45:11 -0400 Couple of suggestions for winding very fine wire: Make sure that the flange of the wire spool is very smooth with nothing to catch the wire. Then lay the spool on its side and let the wire feed off the top end. That way there is no inertia from the spool to break the wire when you accelerate the winder. Even though the wire is twisting a little, with such fine wire it's not noticeable. Also it works well to hold the wire between a couple of small felt pads to provide the very light tension you want. Regards, Brett At 10:00 PM 7/21/2010, you wrote: >I have wound down to around 40 ga. It it can be frustrating because >it takes very tension to break. I have opted to wire in the 30's and >used more turns and closer spacer magnets. What I did was take the >source coil and put a piece of material thru the center like a >pencil. I clamp the pencil horizontal using one of those handsfree >holders which has two alligator clips which I grap the pencil ends >with. I put this assembly on the floor and hold the wire lightly >with my fingers near table height. I think it gave me a little more >slack if something happens during the winding. I only use this >proceedure when I'm using a variable speed drill. I use clear nail >polish because it already has a brush and it has a fairly low >viscosity. I like the Idea of stopping every so often and putting a >light coat on the top surface of the coil. OK this the part where >others probable will disagree. If the wire breaks, depending on the >situation, I tin both ends with the soldering iron and attach them >together and continue. The splice should be short and I havent had >two breaks close enough together to cause a short. It does leave a >slight bump in the coil because the splice is of larger diameter as >will be pretty much straight. If I need to know the coil resistance >during the process, I expose the wire near where I stopped with the >soldering iron and measure it's resistance to the starting end of the coil >Regards >Barry >http://www.seismicvault.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: A Sticky Question From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:22:05 -0700 Try this. About 10-years ago Pete Rowe gave me a =E2=80=9Clot of 44 ga = wire.=E2=80=9D So I set up my Drummel mini lathe to turn a 2-inch = blank spool at variable speeds. I got to a point that I could wind a = full spool in under 2-min. I moved up to some 50 ga wire and never got = past a half-a- spool. So when I read the Jul 21, 2010 09:40:47 AM post = below you have to understand how impressed I am with that feat.=20 Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA USA =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of jzambory@......... Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:44 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: A Sticky Question =20 And I thought I was crazy making my coil with 40 ga wire.=20 =20 I am impressed!=20 =20 Jeff Jul 21, 2010 09:40:47 AM, psn-l@.............. wrote: When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire (.001") the wire is really = too small to see with the naked eye... so I had to use several bright lights so I could see reflections off the = wire.

Try this. About 10-years ago = Pete Rowe gave me a =E2=80=9Clot of 44 ga wire.=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 So I set up my = Drummel=C2=A0 mini lathe to turn a 2-inch blank =C2=A0spool at variable speeds. I got to a point that I = could wind a full spool in under 2-min. I moved up to some 50 ga wire and never got = past a half-a- spool. So when I read the Jul 21, 2010 09:40:47 AM post = below you have to understand how impressed I am with that feat. =

Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA = USA<= /p>

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of jzambory@.........
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 9:44 AM
To: psn-l@..............
Subject: Re: A Sticky Question

 

And I thought I was crazy making my coil with 40 ga = wire.

 

I am impressed!

 

Jeff


Jul 21, 2010 09:40:47 AM, psn-l@.............. wrote:

When I wound my coils using AWG 50 gauge wire = (.001") the wire is really
too small to see with the naked eye...
so I had to use several bright lights so I could see reflections off the =
wire.

Subject: RE: Interrogative From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:30:45 -0700 Please tell Chris that when he makes it to Monterey Bay, California that we will take him surfing in Santa Cruz. We got some great waves and being a local my son-in-law's and I will see that he gets to the coolest spots-- Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Ca -- Aptos, California -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 5:55 AM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: Re: Interrogative ChrisAtUpw@....... wrote: > Hi Geoff > > Thank you for your enquiry. Chris has been in hospital for 6 weeks > now, on the Critical Care Unit. But there is progress. He is off his > ventilator, and will shortly be transferred to a normal ward. He is as > weak as a kitten, and it will be some time before he will be able to > type, but I am keeping all your correspence to entertain him during > his long convalescence. > > Best wishes > > Dianne I have held my breath waiting gor good news .... tell him to make positive progress as quickly as he can ... and keep us in the news loop .... missed him! __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Chapman's sensor Design From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 22:30:07 -0500 Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about the magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized from end-to-end or through the thickness? Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? Thanks, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
 
Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain = about the=20 magnetization of the required sets of magnets.  Are they magnetized = from=20 end-to-end or through the thickness?
 
Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the = thickness,=20 but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing.  Anyone know?
Thanks,
Jerry

 
Here is the link to Chris Chapman's = coil design=20 and instructions
http= ://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
 
Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:46:49 -0700 Jerry, they are magnitized through the thickness. I order mine through K&J = Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com The part number is=20 BX0X02 1" x 1" x 1/8" thick Grade N42 - Nickel Plated Magnetized thru Thickness Hope this helps. Kay ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:30 PM Subject: Chapman's sensor Design Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about = the magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized = from end-to-end or through the thickness? Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the = thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? Thanks, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
Jerry,
they are magnitized through the = thickness.  I=20 order mine through K&J Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com=
The part number is
1" x 1" x 1/8" thick
Grade N42 - Nickel = Plated
Magnetized thru=20 Thickness
 
Hope this = helps.
Kay
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 = 8:30=20 PM
Subject: Chapman's sensor = Design

 
Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain = about the=20 magnetization of the required sets of magnets.  Are they = magnetized from=20 end-to-end or through the thickness?
 
Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the=20 thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing.  = Anyone=20 know?
Thanks,
Jerry

 
Here is the link to Chris Chapman's = coil design=20 and instructions
http= ://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
 
Subject: Updated Photos From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:04:08 -0700 Hello PSN; I have cleaned up the Fossil thingy With Vinegar and Water and put reference size markers (pennies) into the images. Do you still think it is a plant fossil or a animal or insect ?? http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML Feel free to email me since I'm not sure Larry will like posting anything but seismic stuff. Best Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Updated Photos From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 04:15:01 +0000 Hi, This fossil is a animal. But you have to go and see an expert to know what species this is, or if it is something new. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On fim, 2010-07-22 at 21:04 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN; >=20 > I have cleaned up the Fossil thingy With Vinegar and Water and put refere= nce > size markers (pennies) into the images. >=20 > Do you still think it is a plant fossil or a animal > or insect ?? >=20 > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML >=20 > Feel free to email me since I'm not sure > Larry will like posting anything but seismic stuff. >=20 > Best Regards, > geoff > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) >=20 > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Updated Photos From: Canie canie@........... Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 21:23:45 -0700 It does look like a spine of something if I were=20 to guess.. couldn't tell you what.. Canie At 09:15 PM 7/22/2010, you wrote: >Hi, > >This fossil is a animal. But you have to go and see an expert to know >what species this is, or if it is something new. > >Regards, >J=F3n Fr=EDmann. > >On fim, 2010-07-22 at 21:04 -0700, Geoffrey wrote: > > Hello PSN; > > > > I have cleaned up the Fossil thingy With=20 > Vinegar and Water and put reference > > size markers (pennies) into the images. > > > > Do you still think it is a plant fossil or a animal > > or insect ?? > > > > http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/TECHNICAL/TECHNICAL.HTML > > > > Feel free to email me since I'm not sure > > Larry will like posting anything but seismic stuff. > > > > Best Regards, > > geoff > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > >To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:26:36 -0400 I prefer the following block magnets: http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5012.html Model: B5012 Size: 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick Price: $11.00 each An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plates, four magnets, and a one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,500 gauss. A rectangular coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an output of ~80 volts per meter per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, and you can easily use resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of output. See: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz Bob On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt wrote: > Jerry, > they are magnitized through the thickness. I order mine through K&J > Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com > The part number is > * > BX0X02 > * > 1" x 1" x 1/8" thick > Grade N42 - Nickel Plated > Magnetized thru Thickness > > Hope this helps. > Kay > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* GPayton > *To:* psn-l@.............. > *Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:30 PM > *Subject:* Chapman's sensor Design > > > Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about the > magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized from > end-to-end or through the thickness? > > Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the thickness, > but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? > Thanks, > Jerry > ------------------------------ > > > Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions > http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html > > > I prefer the following block magnets:

http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B501= 2.html
Model: B5012
Size:=A0 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick <= br> Price: $11.00 each

An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plate= s, four magnets, and a one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,= 500 gauss. A rectangular coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an outpu= t of ~80 volts per meter per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, = and you can easily use resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of outp= ut.

See: http:/= /sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz

Bob

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt <kwyatt@.............>= ; wrote:
Jerry,
they are magnitized through the thickn= ess.=A0 I=20 order mine through K&J Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com
The part number is
1" x 1" x 1/8" thick
Grade N42 - Nickel Plated
Magnetized thru=20 Thickness
=A0
Hope this helps.
Kay
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:3= 0=20 PM
Subject: Chapman's sensor Des= ign

=A0
Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about= the=20 magnetization of the required sets of magnets.=A0 Are they magnetized fro= m=20 end-to-end or through the thickness?
=A0
Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the=20 thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing.=A0 Anyone=20 know?
Thanks,
Jerry

=A0
Here is the link to Chris Chapman&= #39;s coil design=20 and instructions
=A0

Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 10:34:28 -0400 Oops!!! The magnet meant to recommend is 50mm long x 25mm wide x 6mm thick, Gaussboys model B5006. http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5006.html Sorry about the error. Bob On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Bob McClure wrote: > I prefer the following block magnets: > > http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5012.html > Model: B5012 > Size: 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick > Price: $11.00 each > > An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plates, four magnets, and a > one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,500 gauss. A rectangular > coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an output of ~80 volts per meter > per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, and you can easily use > resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of output. > > See: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz > > Bob > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt wrote: > >> Jerry, >> they are magnitized through the thickness. I order mine through K&J >> Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com >> The part number is >> * >> BX0X02 >> * >> 1" x 1" x 1/8" thick >> Grade N42 - Nickel Plated >> Magnetized thru Thickness >> >> Hope this helps. >> Kay >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* GPayton >> *To:* psn-l@.............. >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:30 PM >> *Subject:* Chapman's sensor Design >> >> >> Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about the >> magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized from >> end-to-end or through the thickness? >> >> Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the thickness, >> but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? >> Thanks, >> Jerry >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions >> http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html >> >> >> > Oops!!! The magnet meant to recommend is 50mm long x 25mm wide x 6mm thick,= Gaussboys model B5006.

http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5006.html

Sorry about the error.

Bob

On = Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 10:26 AM, Bob McClure <bobmcclure90@.........> wrote= :
I prefer the foll= owing block magnets:

http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B50= 12.html
Model: B5012
Size:=A0 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick
Price: $11.00 each

An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plate= s, four magnets, and a one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,= 500 gauss. A rectangular coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an outpu= t of ~80 volts per meter per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, = and you can easily use resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of outp= ut.

See: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz

Bob


On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt <kwyatt@.............= > wrote:
Jerry,
they are magnitized through the thickn= ess.=A0 I=20 order mine through K&J Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com
The part number is
1" x 1" x 1/8" thick
Grade N42 - Nickel Plated
Magnetized thru=20 Thickness
=A0
Hope this helps.
Kay
=A0
=A0
=A0
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:3= 0=20 PM
Subject: Chapman's sensor Des= ign

=A0
Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about= the=20 magnetization of the required sets of magnets.=A0 Are they magnetized fro= m=20 end-to-end or through the thickness?
=A0
Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the=20 thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing.=A0 Anyone=20 know?
Thanks,
Jerry

=A0
Here is the link to Chris Chapman&= #39;s coil design=20 and instructions
=A0


Subject: Re: A Sticky Question From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:35:36 -0700 One way to wind with very small wire is to do multiple strands at once. Wind the desired number of turns divided by the number of strands. When done separate the strands at each end and connect the coils in series to get one long coil with the desired number of turns. The bundle is stronger and you have fewer turns to wind. The disadvantage is that you get more end-to-end winding capacitance, which is not likely a problem at seismic signal frequencies. Another problem with very small wire is that copper tends to dissolve in solder. When you touch it with a soldering iron the small wire gets significantly thinner and can even disappear. This can be worse with lead-free solders and high temperatures. Use Sn63/Pb37 solder and a low-temperature iron. Karl On 07/21/2010 07:00 PM, Barry Lotz wrote: > I have wound down to around 40 ga. It it can be frustrating because it takes > very tension to break. I have opted to wire in the 30's and used more turns and > closer spacer magnets. What I did was take the source coil and put a piece of > material thru the center like a pencil. I clamp the pencil horizontal using one > of those handsfree holders which has two alligator clips which I grap the pencil > ends with. I put this assembly on the floor and hold the wire lightly with my > fingers near table height. I think it gave me a little more slack if something > happens during the winding. I only use this proceedure when I'm using a variable > speed drill. I use clear nail polish because it already has a brush and it has a > fairly low viscosity. I like the Idea of stopping every so often and putting a > light coat on the top surface of the coil. OK this the part where others > probable will disagree. If the wire breaks, depending on the situation, I tin > both ends with the soldering iron and attach them together and continue. The > splice should be short and I havent had two breaks close enough together to > cause a short. It does leave a slight bump in the coil because the splice is of > larger diameter as will be pretty much straight. If I need to know the coil > resistance during the process, I expose the wire near where I stopped with the > soldering iron and measure it's resistance to the starting end of the > coilRegards > Barry > http://www.seismicvault.com __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 08:58:15 -0700 It seems to me with a simple pendulum and a square coil and 8 such magnets one might make a two dimensional sensor in the horizontal plane with but a single device ?? Looks very promising to me since I have received wonderful signals in the past from only one magnet and a solenoid like coil fastened to the ground. All immersed in synthetic oil. I really want to get away from one direction only thing sensors although it may make a quieter sensor. Two planes are fairly easy to handle at once but all three it takes not less than two separate devices. Hasn't anyone ever ever tried to build a single device to see any motion no matter the direction ? In the language of the almighty patents, Simply a Electric,Velocity Detector, Relative Motion, Pan-Dimensional, BlahBlahBlah If you ever tried looking in a patent library you gotta learn their peculiar way of labeling things. Heck (80V/(in/sec)) looks kinda good to me. That's the same as (3149.60629922 V/Meter/sec) ??? Not sure it works that way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob McClure" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:26 AM Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design >I prefer the following block magnets: > > http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5012.html > Model: B5012 > Size: 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick > Price: $11.00 each > > An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plates, four magnets, and a > one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,500 gauss. A rectangular > coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an output of ~80 volts per meter > per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, and you can easily use > resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of output. > > See: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz > > Bob > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt wrote: > >> Jerry, >> they are magnitized through the thickness. I order mine through K&J >> Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com >> The part number is >> * >> BX0X02 >> * >> 1" x 1" x 1/8" thick >> Grade N42 - Nickel Plated >> Magnetized thru Thickness >> >> Hope this helps. >> Kay >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* GPayton >> *To:* psn-l@.............. >> *Sent:* Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:30 PM >> *Subject:* Chapman's sensor Design >> >> >> Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about the >> magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized from >> end-to-end or through the thickness? >> >> Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the thickness, >> but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? >> Thanks, >> Jerry >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions >> http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html >> >> >> > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:46:29 -0500 Thank you Kay & Bob. Both have been very helpful. I've ordered the 38 ga.wire and glass epoxy unclad PCB to make the coil. After checking into the cost of the SEP sensor from the UK, and (estimating the possible weight) estimating the shipping from the UK to me in Texas; it would be almost $700 US dollars! OUCH If they read the PSN site: I wished they would get a U.S. distributer. I know they would benefit in sales. So, I am going to try to build one of this type. I might say that I tried in the 2008-9 period, before moving to Texas. I do not have near the facilities or tools available now that I did then. (Say a prayer for me.) It is going to be difficult. However, my alternatives are few. Bob, I guess that I am a maverick. In looking at these various designs and drawings, I can't help but wonder about possible modifications. For instance, the number of turns in a coil. To me, for a given amount of gauss increasing the number of turns cutting the flux, the angle that they cut and the speed determine the output voltage. So, following drawings EXACTLY may be a matter of choice. The amplification of that output is a factor too. Enough of my soapbox speech. I appreciate everyone's input, and I am sure it helpful for other novices too. Best Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob McClure To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design I prefer the following block magnets: http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5012.html Model: B5012 Size: 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick Price: $11.00 each An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plates, four magnets, and a one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,500 gauss. A rectangular coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an output of ~80 volts per meter per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, and you can easily use resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of output. See: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz Bob On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt wrote: Jerry, they are magnitized through the thickness. I order mine through K&J Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com The part number is BX0X02 1" x 1" x 1/8" thick Grade N42 - Nickel Plated Magnetized thru Thickness Hope this helps. Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: GPayton To: psn-l@.............. Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:30 PM Subject: Chapman's sensor Design Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about the magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized from end-to-end or through the thickness? Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? Thanks, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html
Thank you Kay & Bob.  Both have been very = helpful. 
 
I've ordered the 38 ga.wire and glass epoxy unclad PCB to make the=20 coil. 
 
After checking into the cost of the SEP sensor from the UK, and = (estimating=20 the possible weight) estimating the shipping from the UK to me in Texas; = it=20 would be almost $700 US dollars!  OUCH 
 
If they read the PSN site: I = wished they=20 would get a U.S. distributer. I know they would = benefit in=20 sales.
 
So, I am going to try to build one of this type.  I might say = that I=20 tried in the 2008-9 period, before moving to Texas.  I do not = have=20 near the facilities or tools available now that I did then.  (Say a = prayer=20 for me.)  It is going to be difficult.  However, my = alternatives are=20 few.
 
Bob, I guess that I am a maverick.  In looking at these = various=20 designs and drawings, I can't help but wonder about possible=20 modifications.  For instance, the number of turns in a coil.  = To me,=20 for a given amount of gauss increasing the number of turns cutting the = flux, the=20 angle that they cut and the speed determine the output voltage.  = So,=20 following drawings EXACTLY may be a matter of choice.  The = amplification of=20 that output is a factor too.
 
Enough of my soapbox speech.  I appreciate everyone's input, = and I am=20 sure it helpful for other novices too.
 
Best Regards,
Jerry

 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Bob=20 McClure
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 = 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor=20 Design

I prefer the following block magnets:

http://www.gau= ssboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5012.html
Model:=20 B5012
Size:  50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick
Price: = $11.00=20 each

An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plates, four = magnets,=20 and a one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,500 gauss. A = rectangular coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an output of ~80 = volts=20 per meter per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, and you = can easily=20 use resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of = output.

See: http://sites.goo= gle.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz

Bob

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt = <kwyatt@.............> = wrote:
Jerry,
they are magnitized through the=20 thickness.  I order mine through K&J Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com
The part number is
1" x 1" x 1/8" thick
Grade N42 - Nickel Plated
Magnetized thru Thickness
 
Hope this helps.
Kay
 
 
 
----- Original Message ----- =
From:=20 GPayton
Sent: Thursday, July 22, = 2010 8:30=20 PM
Subject: Chapman's sensor=20 Design

 
Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not = certain about=20 the magnetization of the required sets of magnets.  Are they=20 magnetized from end-to-end or through the thickness?
 
Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through = the=20 thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing.  = Anyone=20 know?
Thanks,
Jerry

 
Here is the link to Chris = Chapman's coil=20 design and instructions
http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.ht= ml
 

Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:27:17 -0700 I too have taken a look at dealing with the UK and it the customs people who are the unreasonable interferences here. They, I think, Want you to lie to get things through because if you lie it is at their discretion they have the freedom to do stuff. If you lie and they do nothing then you know you are just little fish whom they care nothing about. I think unless you are a zillionaire not a good idea to deal with things directly from other countries when transfer of goods are involved. If you are 100% truthful and pay what all those ridiculous middlemen (crooks) want you will pay many times more than the thing is worth in actual fairness. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GPayton" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:46 AM Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design > Thank you Kay & Bob. Both have been very helpful. > > I've ordered the 38 ga.wire and glass epoxy unclad PCB to make the coil. > > After checking into the cost of the SEP sensor from the UK, and (estimating > the possible weight) estimating the shipping from the UK to me in Texas; it > would be almost $700 US dollars! OUCH > > If they read the PSN site: I wished they would get a U.S. distributer. I > know they would benefit in sales. > > So, I am going to try to build one of this type. I might say that I tried > in the 2008-9 period, before moving to Texas. I do not have near the > facilities or tools available now that I did then. (Say a prayer for me.) > It is going to be difficult. However, my alternatives are few. > > Bob, I guess that I am a maverick. In looking at these various designs and > drawings, I can't help but wonder about possible modifications. For > instance, the number of turns in a coil. To me, for a given amount of gauss > increasing the number of turns cutting the flux, the angle that they cut and > the speed determine the output voltage. So, following drawings EXACTLY may > be a matter of choice. The amplification of that output is a factor too. > > Enough of my soapbox speech. I appreciate everyone's input, and I am sure > it helpful for other novices too. > > Best Regards, > Jerry > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bob McClure > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 9:26 AM > Subject: Re: Chapman's sensor Design > > > I prefer the following block magnets: > > http://www.gaussboys.com/ndfeb-magnets/B5012.html > Model: B5012 > Size: 50mm long x 25mm wide x 12mm thick > Price: $11.00 each > > An assembly of two quarter-inch thick steel plates, four magnets, and a > one-quarter inch gap will yield a field of almost 7,500 gauss. A rectangular > coil of 1100 turns of #38 wire will yield an output of ~80 volts per meter > per second. The coil resistance is only 340 ohms, and you can easily use > resistive shunt damping with negligible loss of output. > > See: http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/horiz > > Bob > > > On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 11:46 PM, Kay Wyatt wrote: > > Jerry, > they are magnitized through the thickness. I order mine through K&J > Magnetics at http://www.kjmagnetics.com > The part number is > BX0X02 > > 1" x 1" x 1/8" thick > Grade N42 - Nickel Plated > Magnetized thru Thickness > > Hope this helps. > Kay > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: GPayton > To: psn-l@.............. > Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 8:30 PM > Subject: Chapman's sensor Design > > > > Looking closely at the drawings on this page, I am not certain about > the magnetization of the required sets of magnets. Are they magnetized from > end-to-end or through the thickness? > > Most magnets I have found online, so far, have been through the > thickness, but I am not sure what is shown on the drawing. Anyone know? > Thanks, > Jerry > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Here is the link to Chris Chapman's coil design and instructions > http://www.jclahr.com/science/psn/chapman/lehman/index.html > > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE station updates -- PLEASE READ AND RESPOND From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 12:58:15 +1000 Hi Guys, those that havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so as soon as possible :) I know there are many more of you out there that are still active and are in the database. If you name isnt on the list below, please just a quick email to dave.nelson@............... and let me know you are still around. I dont really have to want to email everyone individually haha have had responses from some of you..... thanks to .... Jon Frimann <<--- New one to be added Curtis Spangler <<--- New one to be added Barry Lotz Larry Conklin Rolando Benitez Robert McClure George Bush Steve Hammond G. Payton Bob Hancock Jim O'Donnell Stephen Mortensen Geoffrey Morgan Voeth Pete Rowe Gary Lindgren Dave Wolny Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) ) Joe Lincoln <<--- New one to be added Edward Ianni Ian Smith Dick Webb Tom Dick <<--- New one to be added a small list so far out of the some 105 stations in the list cheers Dave __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: RE station updates -- PLEASE READ AND RESPOND From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 01:56:54 -0700 Hello PSN, buddies chums friends and pals; In this world of 6+ Billion Peoples, Can someone give me a speculative idea why so few people are interested in this hobby. Is it the same thing for other academic hobbies ? It just seems to me the world is bent on being animal over human. That the mind/intelligence/thought is secondary to everything else. That human intelligence is over-rated. Why is there no effort to have an "Answer any and all question" center run by government on the Internet. It would sure beat religion in answering questions about everything important to everyone. Sort of an Internet RAND corporation for the use of the General Public. Just a thought. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Nelson" To: Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 7:58 PM Subject: RE station updates -- PLEASE READ AND RESPOND > > Hi Guys, > those that havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates > please do so as soon as possible :) > > I know there are many more of you out there that are still active and are > in the database. > If you name isnt on the list below, please just a quick email > to dave.nelson@............... > and let me know you are still around. I dont really have to want to email > everyone individually haha > > have had responses from some of you..... > thanks to .... > > Jon Frimann <<--- New one to be added > Curtis Spangler <<--- New one to be added > Barry Lotz > Larry Conklin > Rolando Benitez > Robert McClure > George Bush > Steve Hammond > G. Payton > Bob Hancock > Jim O'Donnell > Stephen Mortensen > Geoffrey Morgan Voeth > Pete Rowe > Gary Lindgren > Dave Wolny > Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) ) > Joe Lincoln <<--- New one to be added > Edward Ianni > Ian Smith > Dick Webb > Tom Dick <<--- New one to be added > > a small list so far out of the some 105 stations in the list > > cheers > Dave > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: PI Earthquakes as seen from GVA From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 03:07:09 -0700 I compared the theoretical times with my received times and heres what I am able to see. These Quakes were in the shadow zone. 7.6 quake PKiKP PP SKpdf + SKiKP PSKsdf + SP PS 7.4 quake PKiKP PP SKpdf + SKiKP did you in the usa receive these phases also ? Very Deep Quake, Nothing I could call a surface wave. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PI Earthquakes as seen from GVA From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 08:58:23 -0700 Geoffrey, Those were very deep quakes, over 600 Km. Is that why WinQuake can't locate the P and S waves on my machine. I'm in Palo Alto CA. Gary -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Geoffrey Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:07 AM To: PSN-LIST Subject: PI Earthquakes as seen from GVA I compared the theoretical times with my received times and heres what I am able to see. These Quakes were in the shadow zone. 7.6 quake PKiKP PP SKpdf + SKiKP PSKsdf + SP PS 7.4 quake PKiKP PP SKpdf + SKiKP did you in the usa receive these phases also ? Very Deep Quake, Nothing I could call a surface wave. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: PI Earthquakes as seen from GVA From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 11:32:59 -0700 I think it has to do with the CORE of the EARTH. Liquid will not pass "S" Waves. The solid iron/nickle core acts as both a shield and lens at the same time. You will not see the standard phases through the earths core. Or so I understand, [P,S] They will be greatly attenuated or totally gone. Phases can change from one to the other like P to S and S to P as they reflect or refract here and there. "S" does not pass through any kind of liquid. Best Regards, geoff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Lindgren" To: Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 8:58 AM Subject: RE: PI Earthquakes as seen from GVA > Geoffrey, > Those were very deep quakes, over 600 Km. Is that why WinQuake can't locate > the P and S waves on my machine. I'm in Palo Alto CA. > Gary > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On > Behalf Of Geoffrey > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2010 3:07 AM > To: PSN-LIST > Subject: PI Earthquakes as seen from GVA > > I compared the theoretical times with my received times > and heres what I am able to see. > These Quakes were in the shadow zone. > > 7.6 quake > PKiKP > PP > SKpdf + SKiKP > PSKsdf + SP > PS > > 7.4 quake > PKiKP > PP > SKpdf + SKiKP > > did you in the usa receive these phases also ? > > Very Deep Quake, Nothing I could call a surface wave. > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) > > To leave this list email PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE station updates -- PLEASE READ AND RESPOND From: "FRANCISCO J. TOLEDO" fjtb2004@......... Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 19:18:51 -0700 (PDT) please update my email address. Very important information provided by your= source ,specially for emergency management F,jose Toledo=0A=0ADave Nelson escribi=F3 el vie 23 de jul 2010 a las 22:58= EDT:=0A=0A>=0A>Hi Guys,=0A> those that havent emailed me yet with station = confirmation and any updates=0A>please do so as soon as possible :)=0A>= =0A>I know there are many more of you out there that are still active and a= re in the database.=0A>If you name isnt on the list below, please just a qu= ick email to dave.nelson@..................>and let me know you are still = around. I dont really have to want to email everyone individually haha= =0A>=0A>have had responses from some of you.....=0A>thanks to ....=0A>=0A> = Jon Frimann <<--- New one to be added=0A> Curtis Spangler <<--- N= ew one to be added=0A> Barry Lotz=0A> Larry Conklin=0A> Rolando Benitez= =0A> Robert McClure=0A> George Bush=0A> Steve Hammond=0A> G. Payton=0A>= Bob Hancock=0A> Jim O'Donnell=0A> Stephen Mortensen=0A> Geoffrey Morga= n Voeth=0A> Pete Rowe=0A> Gary Lindgren=0A> Dave Wolny=0A> Larry Cochra= ne (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) )=0A> Joe L= incoln <<--- New one to be added=0A> Edward Ianni=0A> Ian Smith=0A> = Dick Webb=0A> Tom Dick <<--- New one to be added=0A>=0A> a small li= st so far out of the some 105 stations in the list=0A>=0A>cheers=0A>Dave= =0A>=0A>=0A>__________________________________________________________=0A>= =0A>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L)=0A>=0A>To leave this list e= mail PSN-L-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line = only): unsubscribe=0A>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more = information.=0A=0A=0A=0A __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Places Id like to see Seismometers From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:15:49 -0700 Hello PSN, Dreamtime is here; TOPIC: Places Id like to see Seismometers 1. MARS 2. VENUS 3. Titan 4. Europa 5. IO 6. any other large moons in our own solar system. The moon has one and produced intertesting results. It rings like a bell everytime its hit by a meteor. It has no molten core. Very deep moonquakes, possibly related to Earth gravity ? They could make a better seismometer today than ever before if only they put their brains together. Maybe even a good and cheap one for Amateurs. geoff Comments: __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: station updates -- Please Read And Respond From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 21:50:12 +1000 Hi Guys, those that havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so as soon as possible :) the maps and database are into their 17th year and I would like to keep it going and keep it as reasonably accurate as possible :) its a great source of info on what gear we are all using for our stations all around the world just for those who dont know about the maps and database go here ...... http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm from there you can go to area maps and see all the stations that have been listed over the years clicking on a station dot will take yoou to their listing on the database where you can see what equip they are using etc I know there are many more of you out there that are still active and are in the database. If you name isnt on the list below, please just a quick email to dave.nelson@............... and let me know you are still around. I dont really have to want to email everyone individually haha have had responses from some of you..... thanks to .... Jon Frimann Curtis Spangler <<--- New one to be added Barry Lotz Larry Conklin Rolando Benitez Robert McClure George Bush Steve Hammond G. Payton Bob Hancock Jim O'Donnell Stephen Mortensen Geoffrey Morgan Voeth Pete Rowe Gary Lindgren Dave Wolny Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) ) Joe Lincoln Stephen Hammond Edward Ianni Ian Smith Dave Nelson (my Californian Namesake :) ) Dick Webb Thomas Dick <<--- New one to be added Andy Little Roger Sparks Rex Klopfenstein Kevin McKee <<--- currently offline Mauro Mariotti Angel Rodriguez Piet Beenders David Saum Kareem Lanier <<--- New one to be added Frank Cooper Randy Pratt <<--- currently offline John Clarke <<--- New one to be added Wolfgang Horn <<--- New one to be added Michael Duck <<--- New one to be added Al Hrubetz <<--- New one to be added F,jose Toledo wow the list grew a lot after that last posting :) thanks guys, awesome effort Those new stations to be added as noted above. I will chase you guys up individually in the near future to get your station data from you and get you onto the location map http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm cheers Dave Hi Guys,
 those that havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so as soon as
possible :)

the maps and database are into their 17th year  and I would like to keep it going and keep it as
reasonably accurate as possible  :)  its a great source of info on what gear we are all using for our
stations all around the world
just for those who dont know about the maps and database  go here .......
  http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm

from there you can go to area maps and see all the stations that have been listed over the years
clicking on a station dot will take yoou to their listing on the database where you can see what equip
they are using  etc

I know there are many more of you out there that are still active and are in the database.
If you name isnt on the list below, please just a quick email to  dave.nelson@...............
and let me know you are still around.   I dont really have to want to email everyone individually   haha

have had responses from some of you.....
thanks to ....

  Jon Frimann     
  Curtis Spangler   <<--- New one to be added
  Barry Lotz
  Larry Conklin
  Rolando Benitez
  Robert McClure
  George Bush
  Steve Hammond
  G. Payton
  Bob Hancock
  Jim O'Donnell
  Stephen Mortensen
  Geoffrey Morgan Voeth
  Pete Rowe
  Gary Lindgren
  Dave Wolny
  Larry Cochrane  (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to  :)    )
  Joe Lincoln    
  Stephen Hammond
  Edward Ianni
  Ian Smith
  Dave Nelson  (my Californian Namesake  :)   )
  Dick Webb
  Thomas Dick       <<--- New one to be added
  Andy Little        
  Roger Sparks
  Rex Klopfenstein
  Kevin McKee     <<--- currently offline
  Mauro Mariotti
  Angel Rodriguez
  Piet Beenders
  David Saum
  Kareem Lanier    <<--- New one to be added
  Frank Cooper
  Randy Pratt         <<--- currently offline 
  John Clarke         <<--- New one to be added
  Wolfgang Horn     <<--- New one to be added
  Michael Duck      <<--- New one to be added
  Al Hrubetz           <<--- New one to be added
  F,jose Toledo



wow  the list grew  a lot after that last posting  :)    thanks guys, awesome effort

Those new stations to be added as noted above.  I will chase you guys up individually in the near future
to get your station data from you and get you onto the location map
http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm

cheers
Dave

Subject: Spacequakes From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 23:54:05 +1200 http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2010/27jul_spacequakes/ > Rumbles without sound > Auroras rain down > Magnetic fields shake > Beware the spacequake > > July 27, 2010: Researchers using NASA's fleet of five THEMIS spacecraft have discovered a form of space weather that packs the punch of an earthquake and plays a key role in sparking bright Northern Lights. They call it "the spacequake." > > A spacequake is a temblor in Earth's magnetic field. It is felt most strongly in Earth orbit, but is not exclusive to space. The effects can reach all the way down to the surface of Earth itself. > > "Magnetic reverberations have been detected at ground stations all around the globe, much like seismic detectors measure a large earthquake," says THEMIS principal investigator Vassilis Angelopoulos of UCLA. > ... __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Pendulum Program : Equilateral : given height : find one side and free period From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:01:27 -0700 Hello PSN Folks; I just wrote another silly program and ask you to try it out It is a number cruncher and is silly because it does with iteration what a single formula might figure out. I'm really just experimenting here to learn a bit. If only I could figure out that POLES ZERO stuff? IS that Rectangular or Polar in nature ? Like rectangular is (X,Y) Like polar is (Mag,Angle) Imaginary numbers relate to square root of negative 2 ?? Like what do they mean by Poles and Zeros ? I read on the internet but just cant grasp the ideas. I am aware someone who really knows this might say it is something else I already know ?? It talks about a perfect integrator It shows a typical four quadrant graph It mentions Stability/Instability concepts But I never saw such stuff before even up to college calculus which I never completed cause I was too old to physically deal with nasty young peoples (military like males) ROTC???? Criminals at colleges ??? attending ASU seemingly bent on making me suffer. RIGHT CLICK and "save to target as" IF YOU DARE ? Description: BOTH BAS source and exe EXECUTABLE files are included for 32 bit windows. It pops up windows to input a number and creates a log file of the same name to show/save the results. If you cancel or press the x it will exit without doing more. If a previous log file exists it will kill/delete the log file before writing a new one. It stays within whatever folder you put it. AS A simple ZIP file: http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/downloads/TRIANGLE.ZIP AS A self extracting ZIP file ( does not need the zip program to extract) http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/downloads/TRIANGLE.EXE It is my understanding you fix the triangle to the mass so the wires or whatever point directly at the moment of mass. You may need a bar on the mass to do this. Sort of like a swing set only the chair piece is on your shoulders instead of your butt. Then of you use damping, that too must operate on the moment of mass. The moment of mass being the exact center which the mass will spin about if hovering in the air or floating in space. Kinda hard to find in reality, I guess. Comments welcome. Do withem what you please but its at your own risk. Best Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: Pendulum Program : Equilateral From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2010 02:07:26 -0700 Oops, the web addresses are case sensitive. Simple copy paste the address then capitalize DOWNLOADS folder in the address. http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/DOWNLOADS/TRIANGLE.ZIP http://gmvoeth.home.mchsi.com/DOWNLOADS/TRIANGLE.EXE AS you can tell. I don't do this very much. Best Regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: station updates -- Please read and respond as required :) From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:09:39 +1000 Hi Guys, Final Calls.............. if you subscribe to the email list and in the past you also submitted your station info to me and havent emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so as soon as possible :) come the end of August I will start with the updates to the maps and database look at the list below is your name on it ?? no ? email me :) the maps and database are into their 17th year and I would like to keep it going and keep it as reasonably accurate as possible :) its a great source of info on what gear we are all using for our stations all around the world just for those who dont know about the maps and database go here ...... http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm from there you can go to area maps and see all the stations that have been listed over the years clicking on a station dot will take yoou to their listing on the database where you can see what equip they are using etc Still only ~ 1/2 of the some 110 listed stations in the database and on the maps thanks for the responses from .... Jon Frimann Curtis Spangler <<--- New one to be added Barry Lotz Larry Conklin Rolando Benitez Robert McClure George Bush Steve Hammond G. Payton Bob Hancock Jim O'Donnell Stephen Mortensen Geoffrey Morgan Voeth Pete Rowe Gary Lindgren Dave Wolny Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to :) ) Joe Lincoln Stephen Hammond Edward Ianni <<--- New one to be added Ian Smith Dave Nelson (my Californian Namesake :) ) Dick Webb Thomas Dick <<--- New one to be added Andy Little Roger Sparks Rex Klopfenstein Kevin McKee <<--- currently offline Mauro Mariotti Angel Rodriguez Piet Beenders David Saum Kareem Lanier <<--- New one to be added Frank Cooper Randy Pratt <<--- currently offline John Clarke <<--- New one to be added Wolfgang Horn <<--- New one to be added Michael Duck <<--- New one to be added Al Hrubetz <<--- New one to be added F,jose Toledo <<--- New one to be added Chris Chapman Audun Fikke <<--- New one to be added Bob Thomasson <<--- New one to be added Meredith Lamb <<--- currently offline Jan Froom South Valley Middle School <<--- currently offline Karl Cunningham Dale Hardy <<--- New one to be added Tony Potenzo cheers Dave Hi Guys,
Final Calls..............
  if you subscribe to the email list and in the past you also submitted your station info to me and havent
emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates please do so as soon as possible :)
come the end of August I will start with the updates to the maps and database
look at the list below  is your name on it ??  no ?  email me   :)

the maps and database are into their 17th year  and I would like to keep it going and keep it as
reasonably accurate as possible  :)  its a great source of info on what gear we are all using for our
stations all around the world
just for those who dont know about the maps and database  go here .......
  http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm

from there you can go to area maps and see all the stations that have been listed over the years
clicking on a station dot will take yoou to their listing on the database where you can see what equip
they are using  etc

Still only ~ 1/2 of the some 110 listed stations in the database and on the maps

thanks for the responses from ....

  Jon Frimann     
  Curtis Spangler   <<--- New one to be added
  Barry Lotz
  Larry Conklin
  Rolando Benitez
  Robert McClure
  George Bush
  Steve Hammond
  G. Payton
  Bob Hancock
  Jim O'Donnell
  Stephen Mortensen
  Geoffrey Morgan Voeth
  Pete Rowe
  Gary Lindgren
  Dave Wolny
  Larry Cochrane  (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya dont have to  :)    )
  Joe Lincoln    
  Stephen Hammond
  Edward Ianni       <<--- New one to be added
  Ian Smith
  Dave Nelson  (my Californian Namesake  :)   )
  Dick Webb
  Thomas Dick       <<--- New one to be added
  Andy Little        
  Roger Sparks
  Rex Klopfenstein
  Kevin McKee      <<--- currently offline
  Mauro Mariotti
  Angel Rodriguez
  Piet Beenders
  David Saum
  Kareem Lanier    <<--- New one to be added
  Frank Cooper
  Randy Pratt         <<--- currently offline 
  John Clarke         <<--- New one to be added
  Wolfgang Horn     <<--- New one to be added
  Michael Duck      <<--- New one to be added
  Al Hrubetz           <<--- New one to be added
  F,jose Toledo       <<--- New one to be added
  Chris Chapman  
  Audun Fikke        <<--- New one to be added
  Bob Thomasson   <<--- New one to be added
  Meredith Lamb     <<--- currently offline
  Jan Froom
  South Valley Middle School   <<--- currently offline
  Karl Cunningham
  Dale Hardy           <<--- New one to be added
  Tony Potenzo


cheers
Dave

Subject: mini Lehman From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 06:04:54 -0600 Hi Folks, I have seen the term "Mini Lehman" and I think I have seen = one picture, a long time ago. I would like to build one, but before I = start, I would like to get some details, if you have already gone = through the exercise. I would like to see pictures if you have them. Thanks, Ted tchannel@cableone.net
Hi Folks,  I have seen the term = "Mini Lehman"=20 and I think I have seen one picture, a long time ago.   I = would like=20 to build one, but before I start, I would like to get some details, if = you have=20 already gone through the exercise.  I would like to see pictures if = you=20 have them.
 
Thanks, Ted tchannel@............ Subject: Re: mini Lehman From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 07:58:27 -0500 Ted, I will answer here so that others might have this information if desired: I recently emailed John Cole asking about the "Mini Lehman." He replied and referred me to his web page http://pages.prodigy.net/fxc/JC.html . The Mini Lehman is the 8th photo down. He told me that it was about 13" long and built mostly from his larger sensors design, which uses oil containers for damping. He uses crossed roller bars method for the upper and lower pivot points. Exact dimensions are not readily available, bit the concept is discernable from the photos. You can see from the other pictures the basic design of the full size sensors, which work VERY well. John is the "Proud Papa" of this design and has many disciples worldwide. (I will not supply his email for his security and privacy.) The Amateur Teleseismic Net's webpage is www.teleseismic.net and contains other member's homepages and live sensors. As one can see, the group has a great deal of interest and knowledge in our hobby. They were instrumental in helping me years ago. Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Ted Channel To: psn Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 7:04 AM Subject: mini Lehman Hi Folks, I have seen the term "Mini Lehman" and I think I have seen one picture, a long time ago. I would like to build one, but before I start, I would like to get some details, if you have already gone through the exercise. I would like to see pictures if you have them. Thanks, Ted tchannel@............
Ted,
 
I will answer here so that others might have this information  = if=20 desired:
 
I recently emailed John Cole asking about the "Mini Lehman."  = He=20 replied and referred me to his web page http://pages.prodigy.net/fx= c/JC.html=20 ..  The Mini Lehman is the 8th photo down.  He told me that it = was=20 about 13" long and built mostly from his larger sensors design, which = uses oil=20 containers for damping.  He uses crossed roller bars method for the = upper=20 and lower pivot points.  Exact dimensions are not readily = available, bit=20 the concept is discernable from the photos.  You can see from the = other=20 pictures the basic design of the full size sensors, which work VERY = well. =20 John is the "Proud Papa" of this design and has many disciples = worldwide. =20 (I will not supply his email for his security and privacy.)
 
The Amateur Teleseismic Net's webpage is www.teleseismic.net  and = contains=20 other member's homepages and live sensors.  As one can see, the = group has a=20 great deal of interest and knowledge in our hobby.  They were = instrumental=20 in helping me years ago.
 
Regards,
Jerry


----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Ted=20 Channel
To: psn
Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2010 = 7:04=20 AM
Subject: mini Lehman

Hi Folks,  I have seen the term = "Mini=20 Lehman" and I think I have seen one picture, a long time = ago.   I=20 would like to build one, but before I start, I would like to get some = details,=20 if you have already gone through the exercise.  I would like to = see=20 pictures if you have them.
 
Thanks, Ted tchannel@............ Subject: Re: mini Lehman From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 09:55:33 -0400 Ted, I, too, have been most impressed with the performance of John's design when I watch it on Larry's Helicorder page http://psn.quake.net/currentseismicity.html Joe Lincoln's Cole/Lehman operated in Spring Texas always seems to be able to see more quakes, which I think is because it can be set up for a longer period than has apparently been possible with most other Lehman designs, so it is seeing distant surface waves better than most. The only other small home-built horizontal I am familiar with that can see more quakes than John's might be Dave Nelson's(CA) FMES electrolytic design. Regards, Brett At 08:04 AM 8/8/2010, you wrote: >Hi Folks, I have seen the term "Mini Lehman" and I think I have >seen one picture, a long time ago. I would like to build one, but >before I start, I would like to get some details, if you have >already gone through the exercise. I would like to see pictures if >you have them. > >Thanks, Ted tchannel@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Re: station updates -- Please read and respond as required :) From: "HANS STAUFFER" stauffer@................ Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 12:48:44 -0430 Thank you Dave, I am a newcomer working on my sismo station. When in operation, I will broadcast details. Regards, Hans On Sun, 08 Aug 2010 18:09:39 +1000 Dave Nelson wrote: >Hi Guys, >Final Calls.............. > if you subscribe to the email list and in the past you >also submitted >your station info to me and havent >emailed me yet with station confirmation and any updates >please do so as soon as possible :) >come the end of August I will start with the updates to >the maps and database >look at the list below is your name on it ?? no ? > email me :) > >the maps and database are into their 17th year and I >would like to keep it going and keep it as >reasonably accurate as possible :) its a great source >of info on what gear we are all using for our >stations all around the world >just for those who dont know about the maps and database > go here ...... > http://www.sydneystormcity.com/map.htm > >from there you can go to area maps and see all the >stations that have been listed over the years >clicking on a station dot will take yoou to their listing >on the database where you can see what equip >they are using etc > >Still only ~ 1/2 of the some 110 listed stations in the >database and on the maps > >thanks for the responses from .... > > Jon Frimann > Curtis Spangler <<--- New one to be added > Barry Lotz > Larry Conklin > Rolando Benitez > Robert McClure > George Bush > Steve Hammond > G. Payton > Bob Hancock > Jim O'Donnell > Stephen Mortensen > Geoffrey Morgan Voeth > Pete Rowe > Gary Lindgren > Dave Wolny > Larry Cochrane (I know you havent emailed mate ... ya >dont have to :) ) > Joe Lincoln > Stephen Hammond > Edward Ianni <<--- New one to be added > Ian Smith > Dave Nelson (my Californian Namesake :) ) > Dick Webb > Thomas Dick <<--- New one to be added > Andy Little > Roger Sparks > Rex Klopfenstein > Kevin McKee <<--- currently offline > Mauro Mariotti > Angel Rodriguez > Piet Beenders > David Saum > Kareem Lanier <<--- New one to be added > Frank Cooper > Randy Pratt <<--- currently offline > John Clarke <<--- New one to be added > Wolfgang Horn <<--- New one to be added > Michael Duck <<--- New one to be added > Al Hrubetz <<--- New one to be added > F,jose Toledo <<--- New one to be added > Chris Chapman > Audun Fikke <<--- New one to be added > Bob Thomasson <<--- New one to be added > Meredith Lamb <<--- currently offline > Jan Froom > South Valley Middle School <<--- currently offline > Karl Cunningham > Dale Hardy <<--- New one to be added > Tony Potenzo > > >cheers >Dave > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Faraday's Law From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 08:35:59 -0600 Hi Folks, I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in a = number of sensors. Yet I still have unanswered questions about = Faraday's Law. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html I have = never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a good = time. Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand it or who = actually has done these tests. Here are my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a = simple, tubular coil. The illustration shows only one pole of the = magnet entering the coil. The formula and examples I believe I = understand. However What happens, when both poles are inside the = coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" thick. Now things are not clear. = Is there a cancelling effect? With both north and south poles inside = the coil, I would think this would be the case. To keep this = understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the = coil. I see these possibilities. =20 1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it = produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - voltage. = This is the only arrangement I have used. 2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one direction.........? = When it moves in the opposite direction....? 3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing = each other. When they move, at the same time, in one = direction..........? When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction? 4. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles = facing each other. When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....? When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction? I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to = explain, before, what I should see. Thanks, Ted
Hi Folks,  I have used a simple = tubular coil=20 and ring magnet assm. in a number of sensors.   Yet I still = have=20 unanswered questions about Faraday's Law.
 
= http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html =  =20 I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a = good=20 time.   Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand = it or=20 who actually has done these tests.
 
Here are my=20 questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, = tubular=20 coil.   The illustration shows only one pole of the magnet = entering=20 the coil.   The formula and examples I believe I=20 understand.    However What happens, when both = poles are=20 inside the coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" thick.   = Now things=20 are not clear.   Is there a cancelling = effect?    With=20 both north and south poles inside the coil, I would think this would be = the=20 case.    To keep this understandable, let's not consider = any=20 magnets on the outside of the coil.
 
I see these = possibilities.  
1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, = when it=20 move in one direction it produces + voltage, when it move in the = opposite=20 direction, - voltage.  This is the only arrangement I have=20 used.
2. Both poles inside the coil, when it = move in one=20 direction.........?   When it moves in the opposite=20 direction....?
3. Two magnets, one entering and one = exiting, with=20 like poles facing each other.   When they move, at the same=20 time, in one direction..........?  When they move, at the same = time,=20 in the other direction?
4.  Two magnets, one entering and = one exiting,=20 with opposite poles facing each other.  When they move, at the same = time,=20 in one direction....?  When they move, at the same time, in the = other=20 direction?
 
I am going to run this simple = test........but would=20 like someone to explain, before,  what I should see.
 
Thanks,
Ted
Subject: RE: Faraday's Law From: "Mike Lozano" mlozano71@........... Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 18:43:05 -0500 Hi everyone, Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: Why (if the number of magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not possible to force two identical magnets together so that they're oriented (for example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that the lines of force would crowd together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil. I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber's lead as the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of PVC so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum lines of force resided. It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I didn't have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a location inside a TV studio. To be sure, it was a short period sensor. I'm not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) . I'm a retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning damage risk mitigation. In case you're wondering about the TV station stuff, I made my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree). If my idea is dumb please excuse me - I was just very curious about this and thought I'd write and ask. Miguel Lozano Lockhart, TX, USA From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 AM To: psn Subject: Faraday's Law Hi Folks, I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in a number of sensors. Yet I still have unanswered questions about Faraday's Law. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a good time. Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand it or who actually has done these tests. Here are my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, tubular coil. The illustration shows only one pole of the magnet entering the coil. The formula and examples I believe I understand. However What happens, when both poles are inside the coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" thick. Now things are not clear. Is there a cancelling effect? With both north and south poles inside the coil, I would think this would be the case. To keep this understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the coil. I see these possibilities. 1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - voltage. This is the only arrangement I have used. 2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one direction.........? When it moves in the opposite direction....? 3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing each other. When they move, at the same time, in one direction..........? When they move, at the same time, in the other direction? 4. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles facing each other. When they move, at the same time, in one direction....? When they move, at the same time, in the other direction? I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to explain, before, what I should see. Thanks, Ted

Hi everyone,

 

Here’s a question I’ve always wanted to = ask:  Why (if the number of magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces = a current flow) is it not possible to force two identical magnets together = so that they’re oriented (for example) N pole to N pole.  It = seems to me that the lines of force would crowd together so that the least = movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil. =

 

I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound = plumber’s lead as the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a = tube of PVC so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the = maximum lines of force resided.  It made a lot of sense when I designed it = but I didn’t have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 = foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a = location inside a TV studio.  To be sure, it was a short period = sensor. 

 

I’m not a seismologist (that should be quite = evident) … I’m a retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and = lightning damage risk mitigation.  In case you’re wondering about the = TV station stuff, I made my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree).  If my idea is dumb please excuse me – I was just = very curious about this and thought I’d write and = ask.

 

Miguel Lozano

Lockhart, TX, USA

 

From:= psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On = Behalf Of Ted Channel
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 AM
To: psn
Subject: Faraday's Law

 

Hi Folks,  I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in = a number of sensors.   Yet I still have unanswered questions = about Faraday's Law.

 

= http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html =   I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a = good time.   Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand = it or who actually has done these tests.

 

Here are=  my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, = tubular coil.   The illustration shows only one pole of the magnet = entering the coil.   The formula and examples I believe I understand.    However What happens, when both = poles are inside the coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" = thick.   Now things are not clear.   Is there a cancelling effect?    With both north and south poles inside the = coil, I would think this would be the case.    To keep this understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the = coil.

 

I see these possibilities.  

1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it = produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - voltage.  This = is the only arrangement I have used.

2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one = direction.........?   When it moves in the opposite direction....?

3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing each other.   When they move, at the same time, in one direction..........?  When they move, at the same time, in the = other direction?

4.  Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles facing = each other.  When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....?  When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction?

 

I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to = explain, before,  what I should see.

 

Thanks,

Ted

Subject: PSN Station Operators Please Read From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 21:32:08 -0700 Hi Everyone, Do to the large amount of spam being sent to my email server I have made some changes to cut down on the number of bounced messages (backscatter) coming from my server. If you send in event files for archiving please see the note at the top of this page http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for the new email address to use to send in your files. The two event file redirectors NewFile and NewEvent have been changed to NewFiles and NewEvents and the daily digest versions have been removed. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN Station Operators Please Read From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:14:38 -0700 Larry is the event upload turned on? I am getting 550 authentication messages at EarthLink when I email to ____psneventATseismicnet.com____ replace the AT with an @ -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Cochrane Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:32 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: PSN Station Operators Please Read Hi Everyone, Do to the large amount of spam being sent to my email server I have made some changes to cut down on the number of bounced messages (backscatter) coming from my server. If you send in event files for archiving please see the note at the top of this page http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for the new email address to use to send in your files. The two event file redirectors NewFile and NewEvent have been changed to NewFiles and NewEvents and the daily digest versions have been removed. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: RE: PSN Station Operators Please Read From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 09:14:38 -0700 Larry is the event upload turned on? I am getting 550 authentication messages at EarthLink when I email to ____psneventATseismicnet.com____ replace the AT with an @ -----Original Message----- From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Larry Cochrane Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:32 PM To: psn-l@.............. Subject: PSN Station Operators Please Read Hi Everyone, Do to the large amount of spam being sent to my email server I have made some changes to cut down on the number of bounced messages (backscatter) coming from my server. If you send in event files for archiving please see the note at the top of this page http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for the new email address to use to send in your files. The two event file redirectors NewFile and NewEvent have been changed to NewFiles and NewEvents and the daily digest versions have been removed. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSN-L) Subject: Mailing List Name Change - Please Read!!! From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:42:42 -0700 Hi Everyone, I have made one more change to my mail server to reduce the amount of bounced messages coming from my system. This list, formally PSN-L, is now called PSNLIST. To post messages to the list use psnlist@............... The email address psnlist-request@.............. or psnlist-request-digest@............... if you are on the digest list, should be used to manage your subscription to the PSNLIST. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Mailing List Name Change - Please Read!!! From: JToledo@............. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:58:45 -0600 TNX FOR THE INFORMATION LARRY keep us posted as needed. Regards |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| | F.Jose Toledo | CONRED | = | | Unidad: OFICIAL DE MONITOREO | Celular: 5-2012109 | E-mail: = | | jtoledo@............. = | | [ Direcci=F3n: Ave. Hincapi=E9 21-72 Zona 13 Tel:2324-0800 Ext= .. | | 1116][Guatemala, Guatemala 01013 Guatemala C.A. ] = | |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| = Larry Cochrane = = To Sent by: psnlist@.............. = psnlist-request@w = cc ebtronics.com = Subj= ect Mailing List Name Change - Pleas= e 10/08/2010 12:42 Read!!! = p.m. = = = Please respond to = psnlist@webtronic = s.com = = = Hi Everyone, I have made one more change to my mail server to reduce the amount of bounced messages coming from my system. This list, formally PSN-L, is now calle= d PSNLIST. To post messages to the list use psnlist@............... The email address= psnlist-request@.............. or psnlist-request-digest@............... , if you are on the digest list, should be used to manage your subscription to the PSNLIST. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. = __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Mailing List Name Change - Please Read!!! From: JToledo@............. Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2010 12:58:45 -0600 TNX FOR THE INFORMATION LARRY keep us posted as needed. Regards |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| | F.Jose Toledo | CONRED | = | | Unidad: OFICIAL DE MONITOREO | Celular: 5-2012109 | E-mail: = | | jtoledo@............. = | | [ Direcci=F3n: Ave. Hincapi=E9 21-72 Zona 13 Tel:2324-0800 Ext= .. | | 1116][Guatemala, Guatemala 01013 Guatemala C.A. ] = | |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| = Larry Cochrane = = To Sent by: psnlist@.............. = psnlist-request@w = cc ebtronics.com = Subj= ect Mailing List Name Change - Pleas= e 10/08/2010 12:42 Read!!! = p.m. = = = Please respond to = psnlist@webtronic = s.com = = = Hi Everyone, I have made one more change to my mail server to reduce the amount of bounced messages coming from my system. This list, formally PSN-L, is now calle= d PSNLIST. To post messages to the list use psnlist@............... The email address= psnlist-request@.............. or psnlist-request-digest@............... , if you are on the digest list, should be used to manage your subscription to the PSNLIST. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. = __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Mailing List Name Change - Please Read!!! From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 09:48:03 -0600 Hi Larry and All, I tried to post an event to the data file site, and it has not appeared, and I have not receive an email confirmation, either way. Is this still the correct address? Events Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Cochrane" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2010 12:42 PM Subject: Mailing List Name Change - Please Read!!! > Hi Everyone, > > I have made one more change to my mail server to reduce the amount of > bounced messages coming from my system. This list, formally PSN-L, is now > called PSNLIST. To post messages to the list use psnlist@............... > The email address psnlist-request@.............. or > psnlist-request-digest@............... if you are on the digest list, > should be used to manage your subscription to the PSNLIST. > > Regards, > Larry Cochrane > Redwood City, PSN > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Crowded magnetic lines of force From: "Mike Lozano" mlozano71@........... Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:02:20 -0500 Hi everyone, Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: Why (if the number of magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not possible to force two identical magnets together so that they're oriented (for example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that the lines of force would crowd together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil. I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber's lead as the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a 4 inch PVC tube so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum lines of force resided. It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I didn't have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a location inside a TV studio. To be sure, it was a short period sensor and it indicated a lot of local noise. I'm not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) . I'm a retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning & transient damage risk mitigation. I was just curious and thought I'd ask. Miguel Lozano Lockhart, TX

Hi = everyone,

 

Here’s a question I’ve always wanted to ask:  Why (if the number of = magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not = possible to force two identical magnets together so that they’re oriented (for example) N pole to N pole.  It seems to me that the lines of force = would crowd together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a = strong response in a coil.

 

I = built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber’s lead as the weight, = a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a 4 inch PVC tube so that = the resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum lines of = force resided.  It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I = didn’t have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station = antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a location inside a TV studio.  To be sure, it was a short period sensor and it indicated = a lot of local noise. 

 

I’m not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) … I’m a retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning & = transient damage risk mitigation.   I was just  curious and thought I’d ask.

 

Miguel = Lozano

Lockhart, = TX

 

 <= /o:p>

Subject: Re: Crowded magnetic lines of force From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 11:16:24 -0500 Hi Mike, Just so that you don't think you are being ignored, I throw in my 2 cents. I'm not sure of your mechanical configuration for your proposal, but I would think a N to N would REPEL, not add. Being a retired EE, perhaps you remember the black & white Scottie dog toys many years ago. One approaching the other from the rear cause it to quickly spin around! (smile) Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Lozano To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:02 AM Subject: Crowded magnetic lines of force Hi everyone, Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: Why (if the number of magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not possible to force two identical magnets together so that they're oriented (for example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that the lines of force would crowd together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil. I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber's lead as the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a 4 inch PVC tube so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum lines of force resided. It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I didn't have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a location inside a TV studio. To be sure, it was a short period sensor and it indicated a lot of local noise. I'm not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) . I'm a retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning & transient damage risk mitigation. I was just curious and thought I'd ask. Miguel Lozano Lockhart, TX
Hi Mike,
 
Just so that you don't think you are being ignored, I throw in my 2 = cents.
 
I'm not sure of your mechanical configuration for your proposal, = but I=20 would think a N to N would REPEL, not add.
 
Being a retired EE, perhaps you remember the black & white = Scottie dog=20 toys many years ago.  One approaching the other from the rear cause = it to=20 quickly spin around! (smile)
 
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike=20 Lozano
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, = 2010 11:02=20 AM
Subject: Crowded magnetic lines = of=20 force

Hi=20 everyone,

 

Here=92s a=20 question I=92ve always wanted to ask:  Why (if the number of = magnetic lines=20 of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not possible = to=20 force two identical magnets together so that they=92re oriented (for = example) N=20 pole to N pole.  It seems to me that the lines of force would = crowd=20 together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a = strong=20 response in a coil.

 

I = built a=20 simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber=92s lead as the = weight, a=20 spring and two cow magnets forced together in a 4 inch PVC tube so = that the=20 resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum lines = of force=20 resided.  It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I = didn=92t have a=20 good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station = antenna=20 within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a location inside a = TV=20 studio.  To be sure, it was a short period sensor and it = indicated a lot=20 of local noise. 

 

I=92m not a=20 seismologist (that should be quite evident) =85 I=92m a retired = electrical=20 engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning & transient = damage=20 risk mitigation.   I was just  curious and thought = I=92d=20 ask.

 

Miguel=20 Lozano

Lockhart,=20 TX

 

 

Subject: Re: Crowded magnetic lines of force From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 13:42:12 -0400 Mike, I think, if done properly that might work. In=20 the gap between the magnet N poles you would get=20 an intense field coming out at right angles to=20 the magnets' axis, which would be the region=20 where you would put the coil. The main problem=20 would be figuring out how to mount the magnets=20 and coil and possibly how to provide iron return=20 paths for the flux lines which would be spraying=20 out all around the ends of the magnets. There is a magnet design program called=20 'femm'--finite element method magnetics. It's=20 not all that easy to learn, but it would tell you=20 everything you ever wanted to know, and more,=20 about any cylindrical magnet/coil structure you designed. For an example one of the many things it does,=20 take a look at the plot for one of the Inyo Force=20 Balance Vertical coil designs. http://www.bnordgren.org/seismo/FBV/InyoMagnet.jpg Regards, Brett At 12:02 PM 8/11/2010, you wrote: >Hi everyone, > >Here=92s a question I=92ve always wanted to=20 >ask: Why (if the number of magnetic lines of=20 >force cut per unit time produces a current flow)=20 >is it not possible to force two identical=20 >magnets together so that they=92re oriented (for=20 >example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that=20 >the lines of force would crowd together so that=20 >the least movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil. > >I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5=20 >pound plumber=92s lead as the weight, a spring and=20 >two cow magnets forced together in a 4 inch PVC=20 >tube so that the resting position in the coil=20 >was the point at which the maximum lines of=20 >force resided. It made a lot of sense when I=20 >designed it but I didn=92t have a good environment=20 >in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station=20 >antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks=20 >away and a location inside a TV studio. To be=20 >sure, it was a short period sensor and it indicated a lot of local noise. > >I=92m not a seismologist (that should be quite=20 >evident) =85 I=92m a retired electrical engineer who=20 >specialized in grounding and lightning &=20 >transient damage risk mitigation. I was just curious and thought I=92d= ask. > >Miguel Lozano >Lockhart, TX > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Crowded magnetic lines of force From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:47:11 -0400 Hi Mike, I did a quick and dirty run with FEMM, just mirroring one of the designs I had done before. http://bnordgren.org/seismo/Mike001.pdf You should probably have the viewer scale at 200% to see it properly as it's kind of small. The structure is made of a steel cylinder and discs with their axis running up the left side of the paper and is a cross-section view. Only one half is shown as the left side is just a mirror image. The two magnets are set as N pole to N pole and the whole thing is surrounded by a vertical steel tube with steel disks on the top and bottom. The field looks good, nice and linear around the coil winding (the rectangle in the open space). Only problem is how do you connect anything, physically or electrically to the coil, as it's now entirely surrounded by iron. You'd have to cut some holes somewhere, I guess. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Fw: Faraday's Law From: "Jim and Connie Lehman" lehmancj@........... Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:47:13 -0400 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim and Connie Lehman=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Faraday's Law Mike--an interesting question. N & S poles spaced apart create a strong = straight geometry of lines of force between them. N to N spaced apart = would show a "squished" field with lines of force leaving and bending = backward. A coil placed in a N to N setting would show some output, but = nothing like the N to S. Bear in mind, lines of force are fictitious but you get an idea of = their presence by placing a glass plate over N to S spaced closely, and = sprinkling iron filings over the area. Do likewise with N to N, and you = will see a big difference. In the typical Lehman coil/magnet arrangement the ideal is to place = half the pickup coil in the magnetic N to S gap so that the wires in = that part of the coil are perpendicular to the strong field lines. Then = any movement of coil or magnet will induce a current output from the = coil. Keep up the good work-Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Lozano=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: RE: Faraday's Law Hi everyone, =20 Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: Why (if the number of = magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it = not possible to force two identical magnets together so that they're = oriented (for example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that the lines = of force would crowd together so that the least movement of them would = produce quite a strong response in a coil.=20 =20 I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber's lead as = the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of = PVC so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the = maximum lines of force resided. It made a lot of sense when I designed = it but I didn't have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 = foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away = and a location inside a TV studio. To be sure, it was a short period = sensor. =20 =20 I'm not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) . I'm a retired = electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning damage = risk mitigation. In case you're wondering about the TV station stuff, I = made my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree). If my idea is dumb = please excuse me - I was just very curious about this and thought I'd = write and ask. =20 Miguel Lozano Lockhart, TX, USA =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 AM To: psn Subject: Faraday's Law =20 Hi Folks, I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in = a number of sensors. Yet I still have unanswered questions about = Faraday's Law. =20 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html I = have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a = good time. Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand it = or who actually has done these tests. =20 Here are my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is = a simple, tubular coil. The illustration shows only one pole of the = magnet entering the coil. The formula and examples I believe I = understand. However What happens, when both poles are inside the = coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" thick. Now things are not clear. = Is there a cancelling effect? With both north and south poles inside = the coil, I would think this would be the case. To keep this = understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the = coil. =20 I see these possibilities. =20 1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction = it produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - = voltage. This is the only arrangement I have used. 2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one direction.........? = When it moves in the opposite direction....? 3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing = each other. When they move, at the same time, in one = direction..........? When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction? 4. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles = facing each other. When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....? When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction? =20 I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to = explain, before, what I should see. =20 Thanks, Ted
 
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Jim = and Connie=20 Lehman
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: Faraday's Law

Mike--an interesting question.  N = &=20 S poles spaced apart create a strong straight geometry of lines of = force=20 between them.  N to N spaced apart would show a "squished" field = with lines=20 of force leaving and bending backward.  A coil placed in a N to N = setting=20 would show some output, but nothing like the N to S.
  Bear in mind, lines of force are = fictitious=20 but you get an idea of their presence by placing a glass plate over N to = S=20 spaced closely, and sprinkling iron filings over the area.  Do = likewise=20 with N to N, and you will see a big difference.
   In the typical Lehman = coil/magnet=20 arrangement the ideal is to place half the pickup coil in the = magnetic=20 N to S gap so that the wires in that part of the coil are = perpendicular=20 to the strong field lines.  Then any movement of coil or = magnet will=20 induce a current output from the coil.
Keep up the good work-Jim
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike=20 Lozano
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 = 7:43=20 PM
Subject: RE: Faraday's = Law

Hi=20 everyone,

 

Here=92s=20 a question I=92ve always wanted to ask:  Why (if the number of = magnetic=20 lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not = possible=20 to force two identical magnets together so that they=92re oriented = (for example)=20 N pole to N pole.  It seems to me that the lines of force would = crowd=20 together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a = strong=20 response in a coil.

 

I=20 built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber=92s lead as = the=20 weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of PVC = so that=20 the resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum = lines of=20 force resided.  It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I = didn=92t=20 have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV = station=20 antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a location = inside a=20 TV studio.  To be sure, it was a short period sensor. =20

 

I=92m=20 not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) =85 I=92m a retired = electrical=20 engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning damage risk=20 mitigation.  In case you=92re wondering about the TV station = stuff, I made=20 my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree).  If my = idea is=20 dumb please excuse me =96 I was just very curious about this and = thought I=92d=20 write and ask.

 

Miguel=20 Lozano

Lockhart,=20 TX, USA

 

From:=20 psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of Ted Channel
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 = AM
To: psn
Subject: Faraday's=20 Law

 

Hi = Folks,  I=20 have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in a number of=20 sensors.   Yet I still have unanswered questions about = Faraday's=20 Law.

 

= http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html =  =20 I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is = a good=20 time.   Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who = understand it or=20 who actually has done these tests.

 

Here are my=20 questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, = tubular=20 coil.   The illustration shows only one pole of the magnet = entering=20 the coil.   The formula and examples I believe I=20 understand.    However What happens, when both = poles are=20 inside the coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" thick.   = Now=20 things are not clear.   Is there a cancelling=20 effect?    With both north and south poles inside the = coil, I=20 would think this would be the case.    To keep this=20 understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the=20 coil.

 

I see = these=20 possibilities.  

1 One = pole entering=20 the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it produces + = voltage, when=20 it move in the opposite direction, - voltage.  This is the only=20 arrangement I have used.

2. Both = poles=20 inside the coil, when it move in one direction.........?   = When it=20 moves in the opposite direction....?

3. Two = magnets, one=20 entering and one exiting, with like poles facing each = other.   When=20 they move, at the same time, in one direction..........?  = When they=20 move, at the same time, in the other = direction?

4.  = Two=20 magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles facing each = other.  When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....? =20 When they move, at the same time, in the other=20 direction?

 

I am = going to run=20 this simple test........but would like someone to explain, before, =  what=20 I should see.

 

Thanks,

Ted

<= /BODY> Subject: RE: Faraday's Law From: "Mike Lozano" mlozano71@........... Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 21:35:44 -0500 Jim / Brett, =20 Thanks for the responses to my question. This afternoon I went to the warehouse that=92s holding our household goods pending the building of = our retirement home in Lockhart. To make a long story short, I found the Vertical Seismometer way back in a corner. I=92ll try to get back there = (I=92ll have to get some hired muscle to move boxes since I=92m recovering from = a re-build (cadaver bone, 8 screws and 4 plates) surgery to my knee) and = take a picture of the gizmo, or take it apart for detailed pictures. It may = take me a week or two to get them. =20 To give a general idea of what it looks like; picture two =BD=94 thick = tubular magnets shoved inside of a 8=94 piece of 5/8=94 I.D. PVC. To force = them together, I cut the length of the PVC tube so that when end caps were = glued in place the magnets were shoved together, with only a slim (.001=94) = shim of Teflon holding them apart. Before gluing on the end caps I placed a = coil form with an I.D. of 5/8=94 . The coil form was wrapped with as many = turns of AWG #36 as I could put on the form. Then, I located the midpoint of the magnet assembly at the midpoint of the coil. Picture a donut sliding = along a broomstick.=20 As I mentioned, I was just playing around when the idea came to me. For those who aren=92t familiar with Cow Magnets, farmers make their cows = swallow them so that any metal they ingest while grazing will stick to the = magnets and not perforate their innards. Here=92s a link to the kind of Cow = Magnets I used: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmagsAlnicoPill.html =20 Best regards, Mike =20 From: psnlist-request@.............. = [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Jim and Connie Lehman Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 4:47 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Fw: Faraday's Law =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim and Connie Lehman =20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Faraday's Law =20 Mike--an interesting question. N & S poles spaced apart create a strong straight geometry of lines of force between them. N to N spaced apart = would show a "squished" field with lines of force leaving and bending = backward. A coil placed in a N to N setting would show some output, but nothing like = the N to S. Bear in mind, lines of force are fictitious but you get an idea of = their presence by placing a glass plate over N to S spaced closely, and = sprinkling iron filings over the area. Do likewise with N to N, and you will see a = big difference. In the typical Lehman coil/magnet arrangement the ideal is to place = half the pickup coil in the magnetic N to S gap so that the wires in that = part of the coil are perpendicular to the strong field lines. Then any movement = of coil or magnet will induce a current output from the coil. Keep up the good work-Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Lozano =20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: RE: Faraday's Law =20 Hi everyone, =20 Here=92s a question I=92ve always wanted to ask: Why (if the number of = magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not = possible to force two identical magnets together so that they=92re oriented (for example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that the lines of force would crowd together so that the least movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil.=20 =20 I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber=92s lead as = the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of PVC so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the maximum lines of force resided. It made a lot of sense when I designed it but I didn=92t have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a = location inside a TV studio. To be sure, it was a short period sensor. =20 =20 I=92m not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) =85 I=92m a = retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning damage = risk mitigation. In case you=92re wondering about the TV station stuff, I = made my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree). If my idea is dumb please = excuse me =96 I was just very curious about this and thought I=92d write and = ask. =20 Miguel Lozano Lockhart, TX, USA =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 AM To: psn Subject: Faraday's Law =20 Hi Folks, I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in a number of sensors. Yet I still have unanswered questions about = Faraday's Law. =20 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a good = time. Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand it or who = actually has done these tests. =20 Here are my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, tubular coil. The illustration shows only one pole of the = magnet entering the coil. The formula and examples I believe I understand. However What happens, when both poles are inside the coil, say a small = ring magnet 1/4" thick. Now things are not clear. Is there a cancelling effect? With both north and south poles inside the coil, I would = think this would be the case. To keep this understandable, let's not = consider any magnets on the outside of the coil. =20 I see these possibilities. =20 1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - voltage. = This is the only arrangement I have used. 2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one direction.........? When it moves in the opposite direction....? 3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing = each other. When they move, at the same time, in one direction..........? = When they move, at the same time, in the other direction? 4. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles = facing each other. When they move, at the same time, in one direction....? = When they move, at the same time, in the other direction? =20 I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to = explain, before, what I should see. =20 Thanks, Ted

Jim / Brett,

 

Thanks for the responses to my question.=A0 This = afternoon I went to the warehouse that’s holding our household goods pending the = building of our retirement home in Lockhart.=A0 To make a long story short, I = found the Vertical Seismometer way back in a corner.=A0 I’ll try to get back = there (I’ll have to get some hired muscle to move boxes since I’m recovering = from a re-build (cadaver bone, 8 screws and 4 plates) surgery to my knee) and = take a picture of the gizmo, or take it apart for detailed pictures.=A0 It may = take me a week or two to get them.=A0

To give a general idea of what it looks like; picture two = =BD” thick tubular magnets shoved inside of a 8” piece of 5/8” = I.D. PVC.=A0=A0 To force them together, I cut the length of the PVC tube so = that when end caps were glued in place the magnets were shoved together, with only = a slim (.001”) shim of Teflon holding them apart.=A0 Before gluing on the = end caps I placed a coil form with an I.D. of 5/8” .=A0 The coil form was = wrapped with as many turns of AWG #36 as I could put on the form.=A0 Then, I = located the midpoint of the magnet assembly at the midpoint of the coil.=A0 Picture = a donut sliding along a broomstick.

As I mentioned, I was just playing around when the idea = came to me.=A0 For those who aren’t familiar with Cow Magnets, farmers = make their cows swallow them so that any metal they ingest while grazing will stick = to the magnets and not perforate their innards.=A0 Here’s a link to the = kind of Cow Magnets I used: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmagsAlnicoPill.html=

 

Best regards,

Mike

 

From:= psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On Behalf Of Jim and Connie Lehman
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 4:47 PM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: Fw: Faraday's Law

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent:<= /b> Wednesday, = August 11, 2010 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: = Faraday's Law

 

Mike--an interesting question.  N & S poles spaced apart create a = strong straight geometry of lines of force between them.  N to N spaced = apart would show a "squished" field with lines of force leaving and = bending backward.  A coil placed in a N to N setting would show some = output, but nothing like the N to S.

  Bear in mind, lines of force are fictitious but you get an idea of their presence by placing a glass plate over N to S spaced closely, and = sprinkling iron filings over the area.  Do likewise with N to N, and you will = see a big difference.

   In the typical Lehman coil/magnet arrangement the ideal is to place = half the pickup = coil in the magnetic N to S gap so that the wires in that part of the coil are = perpendicular to = the strong field lines.  Then any movement of coil or magnet will = induce a current output from the coil.

Keep up the good work-Jim

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Lozano

Sent:<= /b> Monday, = August 09, 2010 7:43 PM

Subject: RE: = Faraday's Law

 

Hi everyone,

 

Here’s a question I’ve always wanted to = ask:  Why (if the number of magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces = a current flow) is it not possible to force two identical magnets together = so that they’re oriented (for example) N pole to N pole.  It = seems to me that the lines of force would crowd together so that the least = movement of them would produce quite a strong response in a coil. =

 

I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber’s lead as the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of PVC so that the resting position in the coil was = the point at which the maximum lines of force resided.  It made a lot = of sense when I designed it but I didn’t have a good environment in which = to test it; e.g. A 500 foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two = blocks away and a location inside a TV studio.  To be sure, it was a short = period sensor. 

 

I’m not a seismologist (that should be quite = evident) … I’m a retired electrical engineer who specialized in = grounding and lightning damage risk mitigation.  In case you’re = wondering about the TV station stuff, I made my living as a Meteorologist (my = 2nd degree).  If my idea is dumb please excuse me – I was just = very curious about this and thought I’d write and = ask.

 

Miguel Lozano

Lockhart, TX, USA

 

From:= = psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted = Channel
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 AM
To: psn
Subject: Faraday's Law

 

Hi Folks,  I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in = a number of sensors.   Yet I still have unanswered questions = about Faraday's Law.

 

= http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html =   I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a = good time.   Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand = it or who actually has done these tests.

 

Here are=  my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, = tubular coil.   The illustration shows only one pole of the magnet = entering the coil.   The formula and examples I believe I understand.    However What happens, when both = poles are inside the coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" = thick.   Now things are not clear.   Is there a cancelling = effect?    With both north and south poles inside the coil, I would think this = would be the case.    To keep this understandable, let's not = consider any magnets on the outside of the coil.

 

I see these possibilities.  

1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it = produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - voltage.  This = is the only arrangement I have used.

2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one = direction.........?   When it moves in the opposite direction....?

3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing each other.   When they move, at the same time, in one direction..........?  When they move, at the same time, in the = other direction?

4.  Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles facing = each other.  When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....?  When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction?

 

I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to = explain, before,  what I should see.

 

Thanks,

Ted

Subject: Re: Faraday's Law From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 20:48:29 -0600 Mike, This is interesting........I what to see if I understand. 1. did you use two cow magnets? 2. were they placed N to N , similar pole to pole? 3. held together inside the pvc tube? 4. was the coil wrapped on a tube, like a spool of thread? 5. then this coil was slid over and centered where the two magnets = nearly touched? I would like pictures, how did it work? Thanks, Ted ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Lozano=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 8:35 PM Subject: RE: Faraday's Law Jim / Brett, =20 Thanks for the responses to my question. This afternoon I went to the = warehouse that's holding our household goods pending the building of our = retirement home in Lockhart. To make a long story short, I found the = Vertical Seismometer way back in a corner. I'll try to get back there = (I'll have to get some hired muscle to move boxes since I'm recovering = from a re-build (cadaver bone, 8 screws and 4 plates) surgery to my = knee) and take a picture of the gizmo, or take it apart for detailed = pictures. It may take me a week or two to get them. =20 To give a general idea of what it looks like; picture two =BD" thick = tubular magnets shoved inside of a 8" piece of 5/8" I.D. PVC. To force = them together, I cut the length of the PVC tube so that when end caps = were glued in place the magnets were shoved together, with only a slim = (.001") shim of Teflon holding them apart. Before gluing on the end = caps I placed a coil form with an I.D. of 5/8" . The coil form was = wrapped with as many turns of AWG #36 as I could put on the form. Then, = I located the midpoint of the magnet assembly at the midpoint of the = coil. Picture a donut sliding along a broomstick.=20 As I mentioned, I was just playing around when the idea came to me. = For those who aren't familiar with Cow Magnets, farmers make their cows = swallow them so that any metal they ingest while grazing will stick to = the magnets and not perforate their innards. Here's a link to the kind = of Cow Magnets I used: = http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmagsAlnicoPill.html =20 Best regards, Mike =20 From: psnlist-request@.............. = [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Jim and Connie = Lehman Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 4:47 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Fw: Faraday's Law =20 =20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Jim and Connie Lehman=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2010 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Faraday's Law =20 Mike--an interesting question. N & S poles spaced apart create a = strong straight geometry of lines of force between them. N to N spaced = apart would show a "squished" field with lines of force leaving and = bending backward. A coil placed in a N to N setting would show some = output, but nothing like the N to S. Bear in mind, lines of force are fictitious but you get an idea of = their presence by placing a glass plate over N to S spaced closely, and = sprinkling iron filings over the area. Do likewise with N to N, and you = will see a big difference. In the typical Lehman coil/magnet arrangement the ideal is to place = half the pickup coil in the magnetic N to S gap so that the wires in = that part of the coil are perpendicular to the strong field lines. Then = any movement of coil or magnet will induce a current output from the = coil. Keep up the good work-Jim ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Mike Lozano=20 To: psn-l@................. Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 7:43 PM Subject: RE: Faraday's Law =20 Hi everyone, =20 Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: Why (if the number of = magnetic lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it = not possible to force two identical magnets together so that they're = oriented (for example) N pole to N pole. It seems to me that the lines = of force would crowd together so that the least movement of them would = produce quite a strong response in a coil.=20 =20 I built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber's lead = as the weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of = PVC so that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the = maximum lines of force resided. It made a lot of sense when I designed = it but I didn't have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 = foot TV station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away = and a location inside a TV studio. To be sure, it was a short period = sensor. =20 =20 I'm not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) . I'm a = retired electrical engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning = damage risk mitigation. In case you're wondering about the TV station = stuff, I made my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree). If my idea = is dumb please excuse me - I was just very curious about this and = thought I'd write and ask. =20 Miguel Lozano Lockhart, TX, USA =20 From: psn-l-request@.............. = [mailto:psn-l-request@............... On Behalf Of Ted Channel Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 9:36 AM To: psn Subject: Faraday's Law =20 Hi Folks, I have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. = in a number of sensors. Yet I still have unanswered questions about = Faraday's Law. =20 http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html I = have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now is a = good time. Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who understand it = or who actually has done these tests. =20 Here are my questions...............Looking at this wed page, there = is a simple, tubular coil. The illustration shows only one pole of the = magnet entering the coil. The formula and examples I believe I = understand. However What happens, when both poles are inside the = coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" thick. Now things are not clear. = Is there a cancelling effect? With both north and south poles inside = the coil, I would think this would be the case. To keep this = understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the = coil. =20 I see these possibilities. =20 1 One pole entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one = direction it produces + voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, = - voltage. This is the only arrangement I have used. 2. Both poles inside the coil, when it move in one = direction.........? When it moves in the opposite direction....? 3. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing = each other. When they move, at the same time, in one = direction..........? When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction? 4. Two magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles = facing each other. When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....? When they move, at the same time, in the other = direction? =20 I am going to run this simple test........but would like someone to = explain, before, what I should see. =20 Thanks, Ted
Mike,  This is = interesting........I what to=20 see if I understand.
1.   did you use two cow=20 magnets?
2.  were they placed N to N , = similar=20 pole to pole?
3.  held together inside the pvc=20 tube?
4.  was the coil wrapped on a = tube, like a=20 spool of thread?
5.  then this coil was slid over = and=20  centered where the two magnets nearly touched?
I would like pictures,  how did it = work?
 
Thanks, Ted
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mike=20 Lozano
Sent: Wednesday, August 11, = 2010 8:35=20 PM
Subject: RE: Faraday's = Law

Jim=20 / Brett,

 

Thanks=20 for the responses to my question.  This afternoon I went to the = warehouse=20 that=92s holding our household goods pending the building of our = retirement home=20 in Lockhart.  To make a long story short, I found the Vertical=20 Seismometer way back in a corner.  I=92ll try to get back there = (I=92ll have=20 to get some hired muscle to move boxes since I=92m recovering from a = re-build=20 (cadaver bone, 8 screws and 4 plates) surgery to my knee) and take a = picture=20 of the gizmo, or take it apart for detailed pictures.  It may = take me a=20 week or two to get them. 

To=20 give a general idea of what it looks like; picture two =BD=94 thick = tubular=20 magnets shoved inside of a 8=94 piece of 5/8=94 I.D. PVC.   = To force=20 them together, I cut the length of the PVC tube so that when end caps = were=20 glued in place the magnets were shoved together, with only a slim = (.001=94) shim=20 of Teflon holding them apart.  Before gluing on the end caps I = placed a=20 coil form with an I.D. of 5/8=94 .  The coil form was wrapped = with as many=20 turns of AWG #36 as I could put on the form.  Then, I located the = midpoint of the magnet assembly at the midpoint of the coil.  = Picture a=20 donut sliding along a broomstick.

As=20 I mentioned, I was just playing around when the idea came to me.  = For=20 those who aren=92t familiar with Cow Magnets, farmers make their cows = swallow=20 them so that any metal they ingest while grazing will stick to the = magnets and=20 not perforate their innards.  Here=92s a link to the kind of Cow = Magnets I=20 used: http://www.magnetsource.com/Solutions_Pages/cowmagsAlnicoPill.html=

 

Best=20 regards,

Mike

 

From:=20 psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of Jim and Connie Lehman
Sent: Wednesday, August = 11, 2010=20 4:47 PM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: Fw: = Faraday's=20 Law

 

 

----- = Original=20 Message -----

From: Jim = and Connie=20 Lehman

To: psn-l@..............=20

Sent: = Wednesday, August=20 11, 2010 11:00 AM

Subject: Re: = Faraday's=20 Law

 

Mike--an=20 interesting question.  N & S poles spaced apart create a = strong=20 straight geometry of lines of force between them.  N to N spaced = apart=20 would show a "squished" field with lines of force leaving and bending=20 backward.  A coil placed in a N to N setting would show some = output, but=20 nothing like the N to S.

  = Bear in=20 mind, lines of force are fictitious but you get an idea of their = presence by=20 placing a glass plate over N to S spaced closely, and sprinkling iron = filings=20 over the area.  Do likewise with N to N, and you will see a big=20 difference.

   In the=20 typical Lehman coil/magnet arrangement the ideal is to place half the pickup = coil in=20 the magnetic N to S gap so that the wires in that part of the coil are = perpendicular=20 to the strong field lines.  Then any movement of coil = or=20 magnet will induce a current output from the = coil.

Keep up = the good=20 work-Jim

----- = Original=20 Message -----

From: Mike=20 Lozano

To: psn-l@..............=20

Sent: = Monday, August=20 09, 2010 7:43 PM

Subject: RE: = Faraday's=20 Law

 

Hi=20 everyone,

 

Here=92s=20 a question I=92ve always wanted to ask:  Why (if the number of = magnetic=20 lines of force cut per unit time produces a current flow) is it not = possible=20 to force two identical magnets together so that they=92re oriented = (for=20 example) N pole to N pole.  It seems to me that the lines of = force=20 would crowd together so that the least movement of them would = produce quite=20 a strong response in a coil.

 

I=20 built a simple vertical seismometer with a 5 pound plumber=92s lead = as the=20 weight, a spring and two cow magnets forced together in a tube of = PVC so=20 that the resting position in the coil was the point at which the = maximum=20 lines of force resided.  It made a lot of sense when I designed = it but=20 I didn=92t have a good environment in which to test it; e.g. A 500 = foot TV=20 station antenna within 50 feet; an expressway two blocks away and a = location=20 inside a TV studio.  To be sure, it was a short period = sensor. =20

 

I=92m=20 not a seismologist (that should be quite evident) =85 I=92m a = retired electrical=20 engineer who specialized in grounding and lightning damage risk=20 mitigation.  In case you=92re wondering about the TV station = stuff, I=20 made my living as a Meteorologist (my 2nd degree).  = If my=20 idea is dumb please excuse me =96 I was just very curious about this = and=20 thought I=92d write and ask.

 

Miguel=20 Lozano

Lockhart,=20 TX, USA

 

From:=20 psn-l-request@.............. [mailto:psn-l-request@............... = On=20 Behalf Of Ted Channel
Sent: Monday, August 09, 2010 = 9:36=20 AM
To: psn
Subject: Faraday's=20 Law

 

Hi = Folks,  I=20 have used a simple tubular coil and ring magnet assm. in a number of = sensors.   Yet I still have unanswered questions about = Faraday's=20 Law.

 

= http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/farlaw.html =  =20 I have never taken the time to test all the configurations, but now = is a=20 good time.   Before I begin I wanted to ask someone, who=20 understand it or who actually has done these=20 tests.

 

Here are my=20 questions...............Looking at this wed page, there is a simple, = tubular=20 coil.   The illustration shows only one pole of the magnet = entering the coil.   The formula and examples I believe I=20 understand.    However What happens, when both = poles are=20 inside the coil, say a small ring magnet 1/4" = thick.   Now=20 things are not clear.   Is there a cancelling=20 effect?    With both north and south poles inside the = coil, I=20 would think this would be the case.    To keep this=20 understandable, let's not consider any magnets on the outside of the = coil.

 

I see = these=20 possibilities.  

1 One = pole=20 entering the coil, as shown, when it move in one direction it = produces +=20 voltage, when it move in the opposite direction, - voltage.  = This is=20 the only arrangement I have used.

2. Both = poles=20 inside the coil, when it move in one direction.........?   = When it=20 moves in the opposite direction....?

3. Two = magnets,=20 one entering and one exiting, with like poles facing each = other.  =20 When they move, at the same time, in one = direction..........? =20 When they move, at the same time, in the other=20 direction?

4.  Two=20 magnets, one entering and one exiting, with opposite poles facing = each=20 other.  When they move, at the same time, in one = direction....? =20 When they move, at the same time, in the other=20 direction?

 

I am = going to run=20 this simple test........but would like someone to explain, before,=20  what I should see.

 

Thanks,

Ted

Subject: Re: Farady's Law From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 10:03:09 -0500 Hi, I have experimented with this a bit over the years. The best response for me seems to be a large speaker magnet with added center pole into the coil on one end and a stack of neo with added pole piece opposing from the other end. Set up is difficult because of the repelling forces, low clearance inside the coil, and arc of swing. Having a U shaped outer pole did not help in the least and may hinder response as well as complicate set up. By the way, I take the face pole iron off of the speaker magnet to prevent short circuit of the flux from the center pole into the coil. The inner diameter of the ceramic magnet portion is then about the outer diameter of the coil. I have not tested linearity but I use a rather long coil with the poles about 30% into the coil from each end. I suspect this gives linearity at the expense of some of the end windings not receiving full flux. Randy

Hi,

 

I have experimented with this a bit over the = years. 

The best response for me seems to be a large speaker = magnet with added center pole into the coil on one end and a stack of neo with = added pole piece opposing from the other end.  Set up is difficult because of = the repelling forces, low clearance inside the coil, and arc of swing.  = Having a U shaped outer pole did not help in the least and may hinder response = as well as complicate set up.   By the way, I take the face pole iron = off of the speaker magnet to prevent short circuit of the flux from the center = pole into the coil.  The inner diameter of the ceramic magnet portion is = then about the outer diameter of the coil.   I have not tested = linearity but I use a rather long coil with the poles about 30%  into the = coil from each end.  I suspect this gives linearity at the expense of some of = the end windings not receiving full flux.

 

Randy

Subject: RE: Farady's Law From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:00:15 -0700 Randy, Do you have a sketch of your magnet assembly, I'm having a hard time trying to picture what you are doing. Gary From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Randall Pratt Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:03 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Farady's Law Hi, I have experimented with this a bit over the years. The best response for me seems to be a large speaker magnet with added center pole into the coil on one end and a stack of neo with added pole piece opposing from the other end. Set up is difficult because of the repelling forces, low clearance inside the coil, and arc of swing. Having a U shaped outer pole did not help in the least and may hinder response as well as complicate set up. By the way, I take the face pole iron off of the speaker magnet to prevent short circuit of the flux from the center pole into the coil. The inner diameter of the ceramic magnet portion is then about the outer diameter of the coil. I have not tested linearity but I use a rather long coil with the poles about 30% into the coil from each end. I suspect this gives linearity at the expense of some of the end windings not receiving full flux. Randy

Randy,

Do you have a sketch of your magnet assembly, I'm having = a hard time trying to picture what you are doing.

Gary

 

 

 

From:= = psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Randall = Pratt
Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:03 AM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: Re: Farady's Law

 

Hi,

 

I have experimented with this a bit over the years.  =

The best response for me seems to be a large speaker magnet with added = center pole into the coil on one end and a stack of neo with added pole piece = opposing from the other end.  Set up is difficult because of the repelling = forces, low clearance inside the coil, and arc of swing.  Having a U shaped = outer pole did not help in the least and may hinder response as well as complicate = set up.   By the way, I take the face pole iron off of the speaker = magnet to prevent short circuit of the flux from the center pole into the = coil.  The inner diameter of the ceramic magnet portion is then about the outer diameter of the coil.   I have not tested linearity but I use = a rather long coil with the poles about 30%  into the coil from each end.  I suspect this gives linearity at the expense of some of the = end windings not receiving full flux.

 

Randy

Subject: Re: Farady's Law From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:19:59 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randall Pratt" To: Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 8:03 AM Subject: Re: Farady's Law > Hi, > > > > I have experimented with this a bit over the years. > > The best response for me seems to be a large speaker magnet with added > center pole into the coil on one end and a stack of neo with added pole > piece opposing from the other end. Set up is difficult because of the > repelling forces, low clearance inside the coil, and arc of swing. Having a > U shaped outer pole did not help in the least and may hinder response as > well as complicate set up. By the way, I take the face pole iron off of > the speaker magnet to prevent short circuit of the flux from the center pole > into the coil. The inner diameter of the ceramic magnet portion is then > about the outer diameter of the coil. I have not tested linearity but I > use a rather long coil with the poles about 30% into the coil from each > end. I suspect this gives linearity at the expense of some of the end > windings not receiving full flux. > > > > Randy > > It is possible to control magnetic lines of force focusing etc. and mechanically magnifing the velocity across the coil by the field. But you need to involve something like a soft/granular iron core which affects the resonance and behavior of the pendulum. The field lines can snap too and fro like those sun spots do this time of the sunspot cycle. I would need a lot more physics and math in my background to fully understand this. But i know there are ways to get a better signal. For the expert pros. People with money to burn. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Flicker noise From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 08:46:29 EDT Hi All, This note concerns the flicker noise in pre-amplifiers which may be of interest to those who have a coil resistance that is greater than 5 K ohms. Chopper amplifiers such as the LMV2011 etc.are said to be free of flicker noise but the shot noise voltage is large at 35nv / root Hz. For a 5k ohm source resistance the noise figure (N.F.) is about 12 db and for a band width of 0.05 to 5 Hz gives a total noise of about 100 nv. The LT1007 op amp has a flicker noise voltage level of 10-17 volts squared / f and a flicker noise current of 2*10-23 amps squared / f , this gives an optimum source resistance of about 700 ohms and a N.F. of 15.5 db at 0.05 Hz, though at 5 K ohms this rises to 21 db. This particular IC has two pairs of transistor and 6 noise current sources which give it the high current noise value and are unchangeable. The Hitachi transistor 2SC2545 noise performance is very low indeed with regard to flicker noise and the data is given as N.F. contour on a log of collector current versus log of source impedance graph at 1Kc/s and 10 c/s. It has been possible to extract the principle flicker coefficients from this for a simple model. The flicker noise voltage remains constant but the flicker noise current depends on the collector current squared and at a collector current of 0.055 ma, gives an optimum source impedance equal to 5K ohms. A pair of these transistors would give a spot noise at 0.05 Hz equal to the chopper amplifier but the total noise for a 0.05 to 5 c/s bandwidth of about 1/6. This bandwidth is calculated for a simple RC high and low pass filter. It may appear a small improvement but every bit may help. Martin
Hi All,
 
 
This note concerns the flicker noise in pre-amplifiers which may be= of=20 interest to those who have a coil resistance that is greater than 5 K ohms= ..=20 Chopper amplifiers such as the LMV2011 etc.are said to be free of fli= cker=20 noise but the shot noise voltage is large at 35nv / root Hz. For a 5k ohm= source=20 resistance the noise figure (N.F.) is about 12 db and for a band width of= 0.05=20 to 5 Hz gives a total noise of about 100 nv.
The LT1007 op amp has a flicker noise voltage level of 10-17 volts sq= uared=20 / f and a flicker noise current of 2*10-23 amps squared / f , this gives= an=20 optimum source resistance of about 700 ohms and a N.F. of 15.5 db at 0.05= Hz,=20 though at 5 K ohms this rises to 21 db. This particular IC has two pairs= of=20 transistor and 6 noise current sources which give it the high current nois= e=20 value and are unchangeable.
The Hitachi transistor 2SC2545 noise perfor= mance=20 is very low indeed with regard to flicker noise and the data is given as= N.F.=20 contour on a log of collector current versus log of source impedance graph= at=20 1Kc/s and 10 c/s.  It has been possible to extract the principle flic= ker=20 coefficients from this for a simple model. The flicker noise voltage remai= ns=20 constant but the flicker noise current depends on the collector current sq= uared=20 and at a collector current of 0.055 ma, gives an optimum source=20 impedance equal to 5K ohms. A pair of these transistors  would= give a=20 spot noise at 0.05 Hz equal to the chopper amplifier but the total no= ise=20 for a 0.05 to 5 c/s bandwidth of about 1/6.  This bandwidth is calcul= ated=20 for a simple RC high and low pass filter.
It may appear a small improve= ment=20 but every bit may help.
 
Martin
Subject: Re: Flicker noise From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 11:50:56 -0400 Martin, Very interesting. When designing these circuits that need extremely low noise at long periods I believe that there are a couple of additional factors that need to be considered beyond the device noise specs. These are factors which are usually thought of as DC issues, but which at low enough frequencies can look like noise--and sometimes lots of noise. I'm thinking in particular of supply voltage sensitivity and temperature effects, since both the temperature and supply voltages will be varying slightly with time. A discrete transistor pair will not be perfectly matched in base-emitter characteristics and they will necessarily be at slightly different temperatures. Then, their temperatures can vary over times of seconds to minutes, with the same being true for supply voltage variations. When you look at the numbers, a few thousandths of a degree mismatch can cause voltage fluctuations which are as large or possibly much larger than the noise specs. The same effects occur in IC's though on a single chip the matching and temperature differences can be made better/smaller. But even with IC's you need to look carefully at the specs for their response to temperature and supply voltage fluctuations. Sometimes it's a surprisingly large effect when compared with their noise specs. It's tough to get a really quiet amplifier at very low frequencies. Regards, Brett At 08:46 AM 8/13/2010, you wrote: >Hi All, > > >This note concerns the flicker noise in pre-amplifiers which may be >of interest to those who have a coil resistance that is greater than >5 K ohms. Chopper amplifiers such as the LMV2011 etc.are said to be >free of flicker noise but the shot noise voltage is large at 35nv / >root Hz. For a 5k ohm source resistance the noise figure (N.F.) is >about 12 db and for a band width of 0.05 to 5 Hz gives a total noise >of about 100 nv. >The LT1007 op amp has a flicker noise voltage level of 10-17 volts >squared / f and a flicker noise current of 2*10-23 amps squared / f >, this gives an optimum source resistance of about 700 ohms and a >N.F. of 15.5 db at 0.05 Hz, though at 5 K ohms this rises to 21 db. >This particular IC has two pairs of transistor and 6 noise current >sources which give it the high current noise value and are unchangeable. >The Hitachi transistor 2SC2545 noise performance is very low indeed >with regard to flicker noise and the data is given as N.F. contour >on a log of collector current versus log of source impedance graph >at 1Kc/s and 10 c/s. It has been possible to extract the principle >flicker coefficients from this for a simple model. The flicker noise >voltage remains constant but the flicker noise current depends on >the collector current squared and at a collector current of 0.055 >ma, gives an optimum source impedance equal to 5K ohms. A pair of >these transistors would give a spot noise at 0.05 Hz equal to the >chopper amplifier but the total noise for a 0.05 to 5 c/s bandwidth >of about 1/6. This bandwidth is calculated for a simple RC high and >low pass filter. >It may appear a small improvement but every bit may help. > >Martin __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Flicker noise From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 12:30:00 EDT Hi Brett, What you have point out is correct but they are not insurmountable problems. In the early 60's, an era when there where no IC or matched pairs just single germanium transistors, I had to build op amps out of them and that was for d.c. operation. Some years after that the IC version arrived, plagued with Popcorn noise' something you rarely hear about nowadays. An acceptable stability over a period of 20 seconds or so is not unrealistic and I do not expect it to be easy but it is a good challenge. Regards Martin
Hi Brett,
 
  What you have point out is correct but they are not insurmount= able=20 problems. In the early 60's, an era when there where no IC or matched= pairs=20 just single germanium transistors, I had to build op amps out of them= and=20 that was for d.c. operation. Some years after that the IC version arrived,= =20 plagued with Popcorn noise' something you rarely hear about nowadays.
An acceptable stability over a period of 20 seconds or so is not=20 unrealistic and I do not expect it to be easy but it is a good challenge.<= /DIV>
 
 
Regards Martin
 
Subject: Re: Faraday's Law From: "Jim Santee" jsantee@............ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:10:33 -0700 EBay has a listing for Kinemetics triaxial seismic switch and heavy duty = seismic accelerometers. I would like some comments on these units if = anyone has used or know what they truly are.
EBay has a listing for Kinemetics = triaxial seismic=20 switch and heavy duty seismic accelerometers. I would like some = comments on=20 these units if anyone has used or know what they truly=20 are.
Subject: Test From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 17:05:27 +0000 This is a test emai from me to the psn postlist to see if everything works. Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: After Shocks From: jzambory@......... Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:22:55 -0600 Hello All, I am just new to this "sport" of seismology and been having lots of fun watching earthquakes on my seismometer come in from places near and far. I noticed that there have not been any aftershocks from the M7.1 quake in Ecuador on Aug 12. All of the other large quakes that I have seen since I started watching quakes in the spring have after shocks. Look at the Baja California quake from April, it is still having after shocks from that one. The one in the Mariana Island region form yesterday has already had numerous after shocks and a M6.3 just a litlle while ago. Can someone out there tell me what the difference in this quake is that there have not been after shocks compared to a "normal" quake with after shocks? Thanks, Jeff Zambory JZAB Calgary AB __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Test From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 15:53:43 -0600 Hi, Jon, Got it here in Idaho. Ted ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jón Frímann" To: "PSN-Postlist" Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 11:05 AM Subject: Test This is a test emai from me to the psn postlist to see if everything works. Regards, -- Jón Frímann Jónsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: After Shocks From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 08:51:16 +1000 Hi Jeff, the primary reason is that it was a deep quake ... 211km it is relatively rare for quakes that deep and deeper to produce aftershocks cheers Dave Sydney At 05:22 AM 15/08/2010, you wrote: >Hello All, > >I am just new to this "sport" of seismology and been having lots of fun >watching earthquakes >on my seismometer come in from places near and far. I noticed that there >have not been any >aftershocks from the M7.1 quake in Ecuador on Aug 12. > >All of the other large quakes that I have seen since I started watching >quakes in the spring >have after shocks. Look at the Baja California quake from April, it is >still having after shocks >from that one. The one in the Mariana Island region form yesterday has >already had >numerous after shocks and a M6.3 just a litlle while ago. > >Can someone out there tell me what the difference in this quake is that >there have not been >after shocks compared to a "normal" quake with after shocks? > >Thanks, > >Jeff Zambory >JZAB Calgary AB >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > >To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: After Shocks From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 19:50:22 -0700 It seems to me that deep quakes are not as good at producing visible after shocks. wasn't that quake > 200km deep ? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: After Shocks > Hello All, > > I am just new to this "sport" of seismology and been having lots of fun watching earthquakes > on my seismometer come in from places near and far. I noticed that there have not been any > aftershocks from the M7.1 quake in Ecuador on Aug 12. > > All of the other large quakes that I have seen since I started watching quakes in the spring > have after shocks. Look at the Baja California quake from April, it is still having after shocks > from that one. The one in the Mariana Island region form yesterday has already had > numerous after shocks and a M6.3 just a litlle while ago. > > Can someone out there tell me what the difference in this quake is that there have not been > after shocks compared to a "normal" quake with after shocks? > > Thanks, > > Jeff Zambory > JZAB Calgary AB > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Concrete and Seismograph vaults From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:37:00 -0700 Dear earthquake friends, I wanted to share a bit of a milestone for me regarding my seismograph fun. Chris Chapman ... I don't know if you are up to reading your email now, but I know that you'll get a chuckle out of hearing my "adventure" this weekend. About a year or so ago, Chris Chapman was kind enough to lend his expertise in my efforts to build a seismograph vault. With his help, I thought I came up with a workable plan and send it out to a dozen contractors to see what it would cost if I had someone else do it. Only one bid came back and it was nearly $4000, so I knew that I would have to do it myself. I had planned to do it this summer, but I was hired by the Oregon Dept of Education to create a set of 20 videos on earth science education, earthquakes, tsunamis, etc. So I came up with an "intermediate" plan that was doable this summer in the time that I had available. We live in a woodframe house with raised wood floors on the Oregon Coast (about 1000' from the ocean). My seismometers are now sitting on a cabinet in my electronics lab. My original plan was to do something in the crawl space. But on my first venture "down under" I saw a spider the size of Texas and came scrambling back up. We have several cats and my husband doesn't like the idea of poison, even in the crawl space. So my "intermediate" plan (at least until I can do my "grand" plan designed by Chris) consists of a watertite brick enclosure on the concrete slab underneath the porch. It is obviously not the best solution because it is not completely isolated from the house. But it should be a far site better than where the seismiometers are now. At least they will be away from the cats jumping on the cases causing a "CATaclysm" or "CATastrophe" on my helirecorders. The bricklayer did an excellent job with the walls and only charged $200. But I needed to raise the floor about 2", so I had my first ever encounter with mixing and laying concrete. We chose a quick set mix, so I knew that I would have to work fast to get it mixed and layed before it set. I studied the instructions for a week, and carefully planned all of the steps and materials that I thought I would need. When everything was ready, I began. But, alas, it was quite a bit more difficult than I thought it would be. Even though it was only 55 degrees F here on the coast today, this (well past middle age) woman was dripping in sweat when it was done. And a husband watching saying "tsk tsk tsk" all thoughout didn't make it easier. Anyway, the job is done. I'll put the final coat of marine paint on the cover tomorrow. Perhaps in a week I'll have my seismometers in their new home. And, knowing now how hard it is to do concrete, that $3500 for my "grand" plan doesn't look quite so expensive now. Hope you enjoyed the story of my Sunday adventure. If you are reading this, Chris, I'm sending you all my best wishes. Kay Wyatt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Concrete and Seismograph vaults From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 23:17:10 -0400 Kay, I was amused to learn that my system is not the only one that is afflicted with cataclysms and catastrophes. You may get a smile from my little web page that shows many such events: http://home.roadrunner.com/~lwconklin/ Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY lconklin@............ __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Test From: JToledo@............. Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2010 07:06:46 -0600 GOOD MORNNING JON everything is fine . best regards |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| | F.Jose Toledo | CONRED | = | | Unidad: OFICIAL DE MONITOREO | Celular: 5-2012109 | E-mail: = | | jtoledo@............. = | | [ Direcci=F3n: Ave. Hincapi=E9 21-72 Zona 13 Tel:2324-0800 Ext= .. | | 1116][Guatemala, Guatemala 01013 Guatemala C.A. ] = | |----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----| = J=F3n Fr=EDmann = = Sent by: = To psnlist-request@w PSN-Postlist = ebtronics.com = = cc = 14/08/2010 11:05 Subj= ect a.m. Test = = = Please respond to = psnlist@webtronic = s.com = = = This is a test emai from me to the psn postlist to see if everything works. Regards, -- J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. = __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Two earthquakes From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 00:36:35 +0000 Hi all, Here is a intresting news from BBC News on earthquake that did happein in 2009. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11013048 Regards, --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Test From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F3n_Fr=EDmann?= jonfr@......... Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2010 00:54:32 +0000 Hi all, I did just send a email to this list, it has not appeard for some reason. It did contain a link. Maybe that is the reason why the email did appear. Regards, J=F3n Fr=EDmann. On m=E1n, 2010-08-16 at 07:06 -0600, JToledo@............. wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > GOOD MORNNING JON >=20 > everything is fine . >=20 > best regards > |------------------------------------------------------------------------= --| > | F.Jose Toledo | CONRED | = | > | Unidad: OFICIAL DE MONITOREO | Celular: 5-2012109 | E-mail: = | > | jtoledo@............. = | > | [ Direcci=F3n: Ave. Hincapi=E9 21-72 Zona 13 Tel:2324-0800 Ext. = | > | 1116][Guatemala, Guatemala 01013 Guatemala C.A. ] = | > |------------------------------------------------------------------------= --| >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > = =20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann = =20 > = =20 > Sent by: T= o=20 > psnlist-request@w PSN-Postlist = =20 > ebtronics.com = =20 > c= c=20 > = =20 > 14/08/2010 11:05 Subjec= t=20 > a.m. Test = =20 > = =20 > = =20 > Please respond to = =20 > psnlist@webtronic = =20 > s.com = =20 > = =20 > = =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > This is a test emai from me to the psn postlist to see if everything > works. >=20 > Regards, > -- >=20 > J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >=20 > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >=20 > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with=20 > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. --=20 J=F3n Fr=EDmann J=F3nsson __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Mini Lehman From: "Ted Channel" tchannel@............ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 16:02:40 -0600 Hi PSN Folks.........hope this is the correct address. I have finished a Mini Lehman, and have picts. This is an amateur = attempt to make a small Lehman, enclosed/covered, using a small fish = aquarium, and has an 11 second period. I learn a lot by doing, and = Happy to share what I have. If you are interest in pictures, and other information let me know. I = will be posting the data files on psn as TCIDM. I know many of you are = interested in discussing developments so happy to do so on PSN, and = email. No great revelations' to discuss or share, it is just a very = small Lehman 8.5"x 12.5"x18.5" but it seems to be stable and quiet. Cheers, Ted
Hi PSN Folks.........hope this is the = correct=20 address.
 
I have finished a Mini Lehman, and have = picts.   This is an amateur attempt to make a small Lehman,=20 enclosed/covered,  using a small fish aquarium, and has an 11 = second=20 period.   I learn a lot by doing, and Happy to share what I=20 have.
 
If you are interest in pictures, and = other=20 information let me know.  I will be posting the data files on psn = as=20 TCIDM.   I know many of you are interested in discussing = developments=20 so happy to do so on PSN,  and email.    No = great=20 revelations' to discuss or share, it is just a very small Lehman 8.5"x=20 12.5"x18.5"  but it seems to be stable and quiet.
 
Cheers, Ted
 
Subject: Re: Mini Lehman From: jonfr@......... Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:18:07 -0000 (UTC) Hi, Now the psnlist works, my last two emails to the psnlist did go. But got lost I think ? Good luck with your mini-lehman. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Hi PSN Folks.........hope this is the correct address. > > I have finished a Mini Lehman, and have picts. This is an amateur > attempt to make a small Lehman, enclosed/covered, using a small fish > aquarium, and has an 11 second period. I learn a lot by doing, and Happy > to share what I have. > > If you are interest in pictures, and other information let me know. I > will be posting the data files on psn as TCIDM. I know many of you are > interested in discussing developments so happy to do so on PSN, and > email. No great revelations' to discuss or share, it is just a very > small Lehman 8.5"x 12.5"x18.5" but it seems to be stable and quiet. > > Cheers, Ted > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Mini Lehman From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 09:38:17 +1000 Sounds Great Ted, still need to build a Lehman seismo over here would be keen to see what you have done.lets see some pix with tape measure / dimensions viewable :) cheers Dave Sydney Oz At 08:02 AM 26/08/2010, you wrote: >Hi PSN Folks.........hope this is the correct address. > >I have finished a Mini Lehman, and have picts. This is an amateur >attempt to make a small Lehman, enclosed/covered, using a small fish >aquarium, and has an 11 second period. I learn a lot by doing, and Happy >to share what I have. > >If you are interest in pictures, and other information let me know. I >will be posting the data files on psn as TCIDM. I know many of you are >interested in discussing developments so happy to do so on PSN, and >email. No great revelations' to discuss or share, it is just a very >small Lehman 8.5"x 12.5"x18.5" but it seems to be stable and quiet. > >Cheers, Ted > Sounds Great Ted,

    still need to build a Lehman seismo over here would be keen to see what you have done.lets see some pix with tape measure / dimensions viewable  :)

cheers
Dave
Sydney
Oz


At 08:02 AM 26/08/2010, you wrote:
Hi PSN Folks.........hope this is the correct address.
 
I have finished a Mini Lehman, and have picts.   This is an amateur attempt to make a small Lehman, enclosed/covered,  using a small fish aquarium, and has an 11 second period.   I learn a lot by doing, and Happy to share what I have.
 
If you are interest in pictures, and other information let me know.  I will be posting the data files on psn as TCIDM.   I know many of you are interested in discussing developments so happy to do so on PSN,  and email.    No great revelations' to discuss or share, it is just a very small Lehman 8.5"x 12.5"x18.5"  but it seems to be stable and quiet.
 
Cheers, Ted
 
Subject: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 06:50:24 +0000 Hello PSN; I've been gone ( not anyone really cares ) due to an OS failure and was unable to reload my OS due to a broken OEM disk so I got WIN 7 now reloaded and up and running with some loss of data. Win7 actually seems better than Vista but not sure yet. Any case; I received an event, or mine blast or something which seems unusual about 80 statute miles from [GVA] with a Richter magnitude like 3.1 or a bit better. ITS origin seems to be 10:30:08_JUN25_2010_UTC Is there anyone out there who knows this event ( somewhere in Arizona ) ? Possibly you have a record which shows the distance from your own station ? This distance of 75 to 80 Statute miles [5280 feet/mile] is unknown to me and I have been watching signals a long time here at [GVA] 3.1 would be a very large mine blast, I think this was a quake. Id like to pinpoint this. Find its epicenter, I think its called. FYI; [GVA] is +33.42138 N -111.57477 W 1665ft[msl] This event should be about 80 miles from these co-ordinates WGS84 Near the indicated time. Thanks ahead of time, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 08:57:19 -0400 Goeff, from the USGS database PDE-Q 2010 06 25 103034.13 33.61 -111.20 5 3.1 MLGS ... ....... 79 Dick On 9/1/2010 2:50 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello PSN; > > I've been gone ( not anyone really cares ) > due to an OS failure and was unable to reload my OS > due to a broken OEM disk so I got WIN 7 > now reloaded and up and running with some loss > of data. Win7 actually seems better than Vista > but not sure yet. > > Any case; > > I received an event, or mine blast or something > which seems unusual about 80 statute > miles from [GVA] with a Richter magnitude > like 3.1 or a bit better. > > ITS origin seems to be 10:30:08_JUN25_2010_UTC > > Is there anyone out there who knows > this event ( somewhere in Arizona ) ? > > Possibly you have a record which shows > the distance from your own station ? > > This distance of 75 to 80 Statute miles > [5280 feet/mile] > is unknown to me and I have been > watching signals a long time here at [GVA] > > 3.1 would be a very large mine blast, > I think this was a quake. > > Id like to pinpoint this. > Find its epicenter, I think its called. > > FYI; > [GVA] is +33.42138 N -111.57477 W 1665ft[msl] > This event should be about 80 miles from these co-ordinates WGS84 > Near the indicated time. > > Thanks ahead of time, > geoff __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 17:30:23 +0000 Hello Richard; Thank you so much. I tried to retrieve this info from the USGS but for some reason was unable to find it. According to this info I have read my gram all wrong. I did not get my P and S phases right. It was more like some kind of bizaaro Pn to Pg wave. According to this new info the event might have been a blast in the Ml range of 2.1 just downstream of Roosevelt Dam. It seems very close to a roadway and this makes me wonder if construction of some kind was going on what used to be a dirt road. If it was a real EQ it is the first of its kind that I have ever seen. And being so close to the DAM is quite interesting. Thank you for your reply. When I re-read the seismic chart I get the same reading which the USGS has posted. This gram I will send to anyone interested. Simply email me with a request and I will send you the data to whatever degree you desire. Like: Image file or PSN file or RAW data as it was collected. If my reading had been right it would have been a bigger event by one magnitude except 80 miles away instead of 25 miles. I guess I shall never learn to read these things right all the time. Best regards, geoff -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Webb" Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:57 PM To: Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT > Goeff, from the USGS database > > PDE-Q 2010 06 25 103034.13 33.61 -111.20 5 3.1 MLGS ... ....... 79 > > Dick > > On 9/1/2010 2:50 AM, Geoffrey wrote: >> Hello PSN; >> >> I've been gone ( not anyone really cares ) >> due to an OS failure and was unable to reload my OS >> due to a broken OEM disk so I got WIN 7 >> now reloaded and up and running with some loss >> of data. Win7 actually seems better than Vista >> but not sure yet. >> >> Any case; >> >> I received an event, or mine blast or something >> which seems unusual about 80 statute >> miles from [GVA] with a Richter magnitude >> like 3.1 or a bit better. >> >> ITS origin seems to be 10:30:08_JUN25_2010_UTC >> >> Is there anyone out there who knows >> this event ( somewhere in Arizona ) ? >> >> Possibly you have a record which shows >> the distance from your own station ? >> >> This distance of 75 to 80 Statute miles >> [5280 feet/mile] >> is unknown to me and I have been >> watching signals a long time here at [GVA] >> >> 3.1 would be a very large mine blast, >> I think this was a quake. >> >> Id like to pinpoint this. >> Find its epicenter, I think its called. >> >> FYI; >> [GVA] is +33.42138 N -111.57477 W 1665ft[msl] >> This event should be about 80 miles from these co-ordinates WGS84 >> Near the indicated time. >> >> Thanks ahead of time, >> geoff __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body >> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT From: Richard Webb dwebb002@............. Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 18:03:09 -0400 goeff, why don't you Google maps the location and check the areal photos to see what is there. Dick On 9/1/2010 1:30 PM, Geoffrey wrote: > Hello Richard; > > Thank you so much. > I tried to retrieve this info from the USGS but for some > reason was unable to find it. > > According to this info I have read my gram all wrong. > I did not get my P and S phases right. > > It was more like some kind of bizaaro Pn to Pg wave. > > According to this new info the event might have been a blast > in the Ml range of 2.1 just downstream of Roosevelt > Dam. It seems very close to a roadway and this makes > me wonder if construction of some kind was going > on what used to be a dirt road. > > If it was a real EQ it is the first of its kind that I have ever seen. > And being so close to the DAM is quite interesting. > > Thank you for your reply. > > When I re-read the seismic chart I get the same reading > which the USGS has posted. > > This gram I will send to anyone interested. > Simply email me with a request and I will > send you the data to whatever degree you desire. > Like: > Image file or PSN file or RAW data as it was collected. > > If my reading had been right it would have been a > bigger event by one magnitude except 80 > miles away instead of 25 miles. > > I guess I shall never learn to read these things right all the time. > > Best regards, > geoff > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Richard Webb" > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:57 PM > To: > Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT > >> Goeff, from the USGS database >> >> PDE-Q 2010 06 25 103034.13 33.61 -111.20 5 3.1 MLGS ... >> ....... 79 >> >> Dick >> >> On 9/1/2010 2:50 AM, Geoffrey wrote: >>> Hello PSN; >>> >>> I've been gone ( not anyone really cares ) >>> due to an OS failure and was unable to reload my OS >>> due to a broken OEM disk so I got WIN 7 >>> now reloaded and up and running with some loss >>> of data. Win7 actually seems better than Vista >>> but not sure yet. >>> >>> Any case; >>> >>> I received an event, or mine blast or something >>> which seems unusual about 80 statute >>> miles from [GVA] with a Richter magnitude >>> like 3.1 or a bit better. >>> >>> ITS origin seems to be 10:30:08_JUN25_2010_UTC >>> >>> Is there anyone out there who knows >>> this event ( somewhere in Arizona ) ? >>> >>> Possibly you have a record which shows >>> the distance from your own station ? >>> >>> This distance of 75 to 80 Statute miles >>> [5280 feet/mile] >>> is unknown to me and I have been >>> watching signals a long time here at [GVA] >>> >>> 3.1 would be a very large mine blast, >>> I think this was a quake. >>> >>> Id like to pinpoint this. >>> Find its epicenter, I think its called. >>> >>> FYI; >>> [GVA] is +33.42138 N -111.57477 W 1665ft[msl] >>> This event should be about 80 miles from these co-ordinates WGS84 >>> Near the indicated time. >>> >>> Thanks ahead of time, >>> geoff __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the >>> body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body >> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2010 23:36:55 -0000 That is exactly what I expected to find. I have driven that road many times in the distant past. If I were a richer person Id explore it again simply to see if things have changed. Such luxuries of exploring my territory are no longer a viable option. The last time I was there they were raising the Roosevelt Dam to a higher level by extending it upward on its original foundation. That was many years ago. If you follow the Young road up into the Sierra Ancha wilderness located on the Rim atop the Colorado plateau you will find more interesting things of a mining and experimental nature. Especially near Workmans Creek where I have known Westinghouse was looking for Uranium. Again, many years ago. Uranium is harder to find than Copper. It is interesting the different forms they find it as. There's not much in the State of AZ for the academically inclined unless you have a PHD. Mostly Farmers, Tourists, Miners here, not factories or military or really much of anything but dirt, sand, rocks, neandertalic humans. Even the science peoples are somewhat neandertalic meaning they look like, {police or criminal like}, goons to me and not {civilized/intelligent} humans. ( Don't laugh too hard plze) as is much of the USA in between the two major Coast lines. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Richard Webb" Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 10:03 PM To: Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT > goeff, why don't you Google maps the location and check the areal > photos to see what is there. > Dick > > On 9/1/2010 1:30 PM, Geoffrey wrote: >> Hello Richard; >> >> Thank you so much. >> I tried to retrieve this info from the USGS but for some >> reason was unable to find it. >> >> According to this info I have read my gram all wrong. >> I did not get my P and S phases right. >> >> It was more like some kind of bizaaro Pn to Pg wave. >> >> According to this new info the event might have been a blast >> in the Ml range of 2.1 just downstream of Roosevelt >> Dam. It seems very close to a roadway and this makes >> me wonder if construction of some kind was going >> on what used to be a dirt road. >> >> If it was a real EQ it is the first of its kind that I have ever seen. >> And being so close to the DAM is quite interesting. >> >> Thank you for your reply. >> >> When I re-read the seismic chart I get the same reading >> which the USGS has posted. >> >> This gram I will send to anyone interested. >> Simply email me with a request and I will >> send you the data to whatever degree you desire. >> Like: >> Image file or PSN file or RAW data as it was collected. >> >> If my reading had been right it would have been a >> bigger event by one magnitude except 80 >> miles away instead of 25 miles. >> >> I guess I shall never learn to read these things right all the time. >> >> Best regards, >> geoff >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Richard Webb" >> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 12:57 PM >> To: >> Subject: Re: JUN25_1030_UTC EVENT >> >>> Goeff, from the USGS database >>> >>> PDE-Q 2010 06 25 103034.13 33.61 -111.20 5 3.1 MLGS ... >>> ....... 79 >>> >>> Dick >>> >>> On 9/1/2010 2:50 AM, Geoffrey wrote: >>>> Hello PSN; >>>> >>>> I've been gone ( not anyone really cares ) >>>> due to an OS failure and was unable to reload my OS >>>> due to a broken OEM disk so I got WIN 7 >>>> now reloaded and up and running with some loss >>>> of data. Win7 actually seems better than Vista >>>> but not sure yet. >>>> >>>> Any case; >>>> >>>> I received an event, or mine blast or something >>>> which seems unusual about 80 statute >>>> miles from [GVA] with a Richter magnitude >>>> like 3.1 or a bit better. >>>> >>>> ITS origin seems to be 10:30:08_JUN25_2010_UTC >>>> >>>> Is there anyone out there who knows >>>> this event ( somewhere in Arizona ) ? >>>> >>>> Possibly you have a record which shows >>>> the distance from your own station ? >>>> >>>> This distance of 75 to 80 Statute miles >>>> [5280 feet/mile] >>>> is unknown to me and I have been >>>> watching signals a long time here at [GVA] >>>> >>>> 3.1 would be a very large mine blast, >>>> I think this was a quake. >>>> >>>> Id like to pinpoint this. >>>> Find its epicenter, I think its called. >>>> >>>> FYI; >>>> [GVA] is +33.42138 N -111.57477 W 1665ft[msl] >>>> This event should be about 80 miles from these co-ordinates WGS84 >>>> Near the indicated time. >>>> >>>> Thanks ahead of time, >>>> geoff __________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>>> >>>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the >>>> body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body >>> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body >> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 09:21:42 -0500 I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New Zealand EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction to the California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at Victoria University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch had "acted like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to smaller buildings." Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? Jerry
I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New = Zealand=20 EQ.  I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction = to the=20 California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground.
 
The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at = Victoria=20 University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch had = "acted like=20 a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to smaller=20 buildings."
 
Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils?
 
Jerry
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: Dave Nelson dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 07:04:45 +1000 Hey Jerry, its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking and liquifaction is proportion to a number of things, including.... distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited there many times over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went through this quake. A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is very soft wet soils being an estuary area of 2 rivers. When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you only had to dig down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill with water. So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in how much damage is going to occur. Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as they found out in that huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and severe damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness... very strict building codes etc etc cheers Dave Nelson Sydney Ex New Zealand At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New Zealand >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction to the >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. > >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at Victoria >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch had "acted >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to smaller >buildings." > >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? > >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 16:20:22 -0500 Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that you would. When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" then. Best regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Nelson To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN Hey Jerry, its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking and liquefaction is proportion to a number of things, including.... distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited there many times over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went through this quake. A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is very soft wet soils being an estuary area of 2 rivers. When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you only had to dig down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill with water. So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in how much damage is going to occur. Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as they found out in that huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and severe damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness... very strict building codes etc etc cheers Dave Nelson Sydney Ex New Zealand At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New Zealand >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction to the >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. > >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at Victoria >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch had "acted >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to smaller >buildings." > >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? > >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ.  I was = hoping=20 that you would.
 
When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared = that the=20 area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading = sometimes.
 
Thank you for the input.  I suspect the ground acted like a = "wet=20 sponge" then.
 
Best regards,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Dave Nelson
Sent: Sunday, September 05, = 2010 4:04=20 PM
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused = -=20 AGAIN

Hey=20 = Jerry,
          &nb= sp;      =20 its a pretty complex subject,  and the amount of shaking
and=20 liquefaction
is proportion to a number of  things,=20 including....
  distance from the quake  ....  = attenuation=20 of the waves
  magnitude of the quake  .... size affects = the=20 period of severe shaking
  soil type   ....  = soft,=20 hard, gravels etc etc

I know Christchurch city very well, = having worked=20 there, visited there many
times
over the years and my 2 kids = (early=20 20's) still live there and went through
this quake.
A large = portion of=20 Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is very
soft wet=20 soils
being an estuary area of 2 rivers.
When I worked for = telecom there=20 and were doing cable laying,  you only had
to dig
down a = couple of=20 feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill with = water.

So the 3=20 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in how = much
damage=20 is going to occur.
Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is = very=20 signif. as they found
out in that
huge quake in mexico in = 1985 =20 the M8.1 was a long way from the city,  but
the combination = of the=20 alluvial basin the city sat on,  the period of
shaking  = are what=20 contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and severe
damage = (not to=20 mention the crappy building construction)
   REMEMBER ... = New=20 Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness...
very strict = building=20 codes  etc etc

cheers
Dave Nelson
Sydney
Ex New=20 Zealand


At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote:
>I was just = reading=20 an article about damages from the recent New Zealand
>EQ.  = I saw=20 the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction to the=20
>California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the=20 ground.
>
>The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor = of=20 Geophysics at Victoria
>University, speculated that the very = soft soils=20 of Christchurch had "acted
>like a shock absorber over a short = period=20 ... doing less damage to smaller
>buildings."
>
>Is = this=20 just a matter of less water content in the=20 = soils?
>
>Jerry

______________________________________= ____________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:51:13 +1200 NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at > http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchurch-earthquake.html It includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is variously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up to 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs. The main event report is at http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html while the following link provides felt reports from the general public as well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html There have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since the main event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of background activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise across the country. Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to the main quake. The damage has been compounded by heavy rain and strong winds. The army has been deployed to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch CBD while isolated disorder is being reported as people try to access supermarkets and pharmacy services. Official instructions to not attend the hospitals except in cases of serious emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other small businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have been inspected by structural engineers. There is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20% of Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time to repair. All schools are closed until at least Wednesday. A selection of local media http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=1502981 http://www.scoop.co.nz/ http://www.stuff.co.nz/ http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news http://www.3news.co.nz/ http://www.radionz.co.nz/news On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote: > Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that > you would. > When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that > the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. > Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" > then. > Best regards, > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave Nelson > *To:* psnlist@.............. > *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > > Hey Jerry, > its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking > and liquefaction > is proportion to a number of things, including.... > distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves > magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking > soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc > > I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited > there many > times > over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went > through > this quake. > A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is > very > soft wet soils > being an estuary area of 2 rivers. > When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you > only had > to dig > down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill > with water. > > So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in > how much > damage is going to occur. > Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as > they found > out in that > huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but > the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of > shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and > severe > damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) > REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness... > very strict building codes etc etc > > cheers > Dave Nelson > Sydney > Ex New Zealand > > At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: > >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New > Zealand > >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction > to the > >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. > > > >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at > Victoria > >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch > had "acted > >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to > smaller > >buildings." > > > >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? > > > >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 18:36:47 -0500 Mark, thank you so much for your reply. I loved the TV interviews and photographs. It is almost like being there! It is one thing to sense and record a distant EQ, but to see pictures and reports really adds to the overall experience. we are all relived that there were no serious injuries. Thanks again, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Robinson To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at > http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchurch-earthquake.html It includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is variously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up to 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs. The main event report is at http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html while the following link provides felt reports from the general public as well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html There have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since the main event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of background activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise across the country. Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to the main quake. The damage has been compounded by heavy rain and strong winds. The army has been deployed to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch CBD while isolated disorder is being reported as people try to access supermarkets and pharmacy services. Official instructions to not attend the hospitals except in cases of serious emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other small businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have been inspected by structural engineers. There is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20% of Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time to repair. All schools are closed until at least Wednesday. A selection of local media http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=1502981 http://www.scoop.co.nz/ http://www.stuff.co.nz/ http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news http://www.3news.co.nz/ http://www.radionz.co.nz/news On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote: > Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that > you would. > When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that > the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. > Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" > then. > Best regards, > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dave Nelson > *To:* psnlist@.............. > *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM > *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > > Hey Jerry, > its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking > and liquefaction > is proportion to a number of things, including.... > distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves > magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking > soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc > > I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited > there many > times > over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went > through > this quake. > A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is > very > soft wet soils > being an estuary area of 2 rivers. > When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you > only had > to dig > down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill > with water. > > So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in > how much > damage is going to occur. > Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as > they found > out in that > huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but > the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of > shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and > severe > damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) > REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness... > very strict building codes etc etc > > cheers > Dave Nelson > Sydney > Ex New Zealand > > At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: > >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New > Zealand > >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction > to the > >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. > > > >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at > Victoria > >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch > had "acted > >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to > smaller > >buildings." > > > >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? > > > >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Mark, thank you so much for your reply.  I loved the TV = interviews and=20 photographs.  It is almost like being there!  It is one thing = to sense=20 and record a distant EQ, but to see pictures and reports really adds to = the=20 overall experience.  we are all relived that there were no serious=20 injuries.
 
Thanks again,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Mark Robinson
Sent: Sunday, September 05, = 2010 5:51=20 PM
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused = -=20 AGAIN

NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake=20 at

> http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchur= ch-earthquake.html

It=20 includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is = variously=20
reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up to 4m = have=20 been
measured and are evident in the photographs.

The main = event=20 report is at

http://= www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html

while=20 the following link provides felt reports from the general public as = well=20
as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities

http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html
=
There=20 have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since the = main=20
event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of = background=20 activity
with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic plateau = of the=20 North Island
and unusual levels of seismic noise across the=20 country.

Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the = week=20 leading up to the
main quake.

The damage has been = compounded by=20 heavy rain and strong winds.

The army has been deployed to = enforce a=20 cordon around the Christchurch CBD
while isolated disorder is = being=20 reported as people try to access supermarkets
and pharmacy=20 services.

Official instructions to not attend the hospitals = except in=20 cases of serious
emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as = doctors and=20 other small businesses
are instructed not to open until their = premises=20 have been inspected by
structural engineers.

There is = considerable=20 damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20% of
Christchurch = having=20 no water supply. This will take a long time to repair.

All = schools are=20 closed until at least Wednesday.

A selection of local = media

http://www.nzherald.co= ..nz/?c_id=3D1502981
http://www.scoop.co.nz/
http://www.stuff.co.nz/
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news<= /A>
http://www.3news.co.nz/
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news<= BR>

On=20 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote:
> Dave, I am so glad that you = answered,=20 being from NZ. I was hoping that
> you would.
> When the = quake=20 occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that
> the = area was=20 mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes.
> = Thank you=20 for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge"
>=20 then.
> Best regards,
> = Jerry
>    =20 ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* = Dave=20 Nelson <mailto:dave.nelson@........... om.au>
>    =20 *To:* psnlist@..............=20 <mailto:psnlist@..............&= gt;
>    =20 *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 = PM
>    =20 *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused -=20 AGAIN
>
>     Hey=20 Jerry,
>     its a pretty complex subject, = and the=20 amount of shaking
>     and=20 liquefaction
>     is proportion to a number = of=20 things, including....
>     distance from = the quake=20 .... attenuation of the waves
>     = magnitude of the=20 quake .... size affects the period of severe=20 shaking
>     soil type .... soft, hard, = gravels etc=20 etc
>
>     I know Christchurch city = very=20 well, having worked there, visited
>     = there=20 many
>     = times
>    =20 over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and=20 went
>     = through
>    =20 this quake.
>     A large portion of = Christchurch is=20 basically built on a swamp, it is
>    =20 very
>     soft wet=20 soils
>     being an estuary area of 2=20 rivers.
>     When I worked for telecom = there and=20 were doing cable laying, you
>     only=20 had
>     to = dig
>    =20 down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly=20 fill
>     with=20 water.
>
>     So the 3 factors above = and=20 others not mentioned all play a part = in
>     how=20 much
>     damage is going to=20 occur.
>     Magnitude therefore period of = intense=20 shaking is very signif. as
>     they=20 found
>     out in=20 that
>     huge quake in mexico in 1985 the = M8.1 was=20 a long way from the city, but
>     the = combination=20 of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period=20 of
>     shaking are what contributed to the = horrific numbers of deaths and
>    =20 severe
>     damage (not to mention the = crappy=20 building construction)
>     REMEMBER ... = New=20 Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake=20 prepardness...
>     very strict building = codes etc=20 etc
>
>    =20 cheers
>     Dave=20 Nelson
>     = Sydney
>    =20 Ex New Zealand
>
>     At 12:21 AM = 6/09/2010,=20 you wrote:
>      >I was just = reading an=20 article about damages from the recent = New
>    =20 Zealand
>      >EQ. I saw the = following=20 quote which seemed to be a = contradiction
>     to=20 the
>      >California EQ where soft = ground=20 cause liquefaction of the = ground.
>     =20 >
>      >The quote is as = follows: "Euan=20 Smith, professor of Geophysics at
>    =20 Victoria
>      >University, = speculated that=20 the very soft soils of Christchurch
>     = had=20 "acted
>      >like a shock absorber = over a=20 short period ... doing less damage to
>    =20 smaller
>     =20 >buildings."
>     =20 >
>      >Is this just a matter = of less=20 water content in the soils?
>     =20 >
>     =20 = >Jerry

________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: dave.nelson@............... Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:03:53 +1000 Hey Jerry and group, no probs :) the epicentre site of the quake is out on the plains from the mountains by some 40 kms or so is even still a bit east of the foothills. The plains are alluvial gravel deposits brought down by the various rivers. they are of substantial thickness (actual depths escapes me offshand), these alluvials overlay a metamorphic basement, that is thrust to the surface alone the main Alpine Fault, the plate boundary fault between the Indo-Australian and the Pacific Plates. There are numerous thrust faults east of the main alpine fault that segments the region into long "block" strips. This quake occurred one one of those "blind thrusts" buried below the alluvium. One of my amateur (Ham) radio friends home is at West Melton (you will find that small village on Google Earth) ~ 6km east of the Darfield epicentre. his home has been trashed, some structural damage but still liveable. The TV set in the lounge was tossed 15ft across the room. He was totally thrown out of bed. An aircompressor in his workshop that he can only just lift was tossed aside with ease. My 2 kids are ok, daughter Sam has been taking lots of pic for me hope to see them soon and will share with all :) She's still pretty shaken, hasnt had a lot of sleep over the last 48 hrs. the periodic M5 (+ - a few points) keeps them all edgy. cheers Dave > GPayton wrote: > > Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that you would. > When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that the > area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. > Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" then. > Best regards, > Jerry > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:26:07 -0700 Mark, Can you explain the following sentence from your email... "Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to the main quake." Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks muchly! Kay ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Robinson" To: Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at > >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchurch-earthquake.html > > It includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is > variously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up to > 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs. > > The main event report is at > > http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html > > while the following link provides felt reports from the general public as > well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities > > http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html > > There have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since the > main event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of > background activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic > plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise across the > country. > > Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to > the main quake. > > The damage has been compounded by heavy rain and strong winds. > > The army has been deployed to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch CBD > while isolated disorder is being reported as people try to access > supermarkets and pharmacy services. > > Official instructions to not attend the hospitals except in cases of > serious emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other small > businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have been > inspected by structural engineers. > > There is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20% of > Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time to repair. > > All schools are closed until at least Wednesday. > > A selection of local media > > http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=1502981 > http://www.scoop.co.nz/ > http://www.stuff.co.nz/ > http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news > http://www.3news.co.nz/ > http://www.radionz.co.nz/news > > > On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote: >> Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that >> you would. >> When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that >> the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. >> Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" >> then. >> Best regards, >> Jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Dave Nelson >> *To:* psnlist@.............. >> *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN >> >> Hey Jerry, >> its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking >> and liquefaction >> is proportion to a number of things, including.... >> distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves >> magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking >> soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc >> >> I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited >> there many >> times >> over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went >> through >> this quake. >> A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is >> very >> soft wet soils >> being an estuary area of 2 rivers. >> When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you >> only had >> to dig >> down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill >> with water. >> >> So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in >> how much >> damage is going to occur. >> Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as >> they found >> out in that >> huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, >> but >> the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of >> shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and >> severe >> damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) >> REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake >> prepardness... >> very strict building codes etc etc >> >> cheers >> Dave Nelson >> Sydney >> Ex New Zealand >> >> At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >> >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New >> Zealand >> >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction >> to the >> >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. >> > >> >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at >> Victoria >> >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch >> had "acted >> >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to >> smaller >> >buildings." >> > >> >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? >> > >> >Jerry > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of > the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 02:54:23 -0000 (UTC) Hello, For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting part of the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks that way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the moment. But I can check that next weekend. Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, so that this issue can be confirmed. Regards, Jón Frímann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 22:02:59 -0500 Hi Jon, What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or more emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent that you entirely missed? It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: jonfr@......... To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList Hello, For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting part of the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks that way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the moment. But I can check that next weekend. Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, so that this issue can be confirmed. Regards, Jón Frímann. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Hi Jon,
 
What do you mean "part of the emails?"  Do you mean sections = of one or=20 more emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails = sent that=20 you entirely missed?
 
It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know.
 
Regards,
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 jonfr@.........=20
Sent: Sunday, September 05, = 2010 9:54=20 PM
Subject: I am only getting part = of the=20 messages on PSNList

Hello,

For some reasons unknown to me, it = appears that I=20 am only getting part of
the emails that are going around on = PSN-Postlist.=20 At least it looks that
way. I don't my main email client to check = older=20 emails at the moment. But
I can check that next weekend.

Is = this=20 problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, = so
that this=20 issue can be confirmed.

Regards,
J=F3n=20 = Fr=EDmann.

_______________________________________________________= ___

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: Mark Robinson mark.robinson@............... Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 15:24:21 +1200 Hi Kay, It is only through the good offices of Chris Chapman (good thoughts for him) and this list that I learnt the term. I asked for an explanation of long period (circa 10 minute) waves seen on the LISS[1] helicorders. Chris informed me that this was known as Eigenmode activity. My feeling is that these reflect deep movements in the earth particularly in more fluid layers. The Wellington long period sensor[3] is showing another form of long period waves today[4] but these include more abrupt triggering events. These triggering events are however not abrupt enough to show up on the short period sensors[5]. [1] http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/heli2.shtml [2] http://zl2tod.net/geo/20050516-kermadecs-and-eigenmode-SNZO_24hr.gif [3] http://aslwww.cr.usgs.gov/Seismic_Data/telemetry_data/SNZO_24hr.html [4] http://zl2tod.net/geo/201009060313-SNZO_24hr.gif [5] http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/drums/wel-drum.html Regards Mark On 06/09/10 14:26, Kay Wyatt wrote: > Mark, > > Can you explain the following sentence from your email... > > "Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up > to the > main quake." > > Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks muchly! > > Kay > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Robinson" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:51 PM > Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > > >> NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at >> >>> http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchurch-earthquake.html >>> >> >> It includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is >> variously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up >> to 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs. >> >> The main event report is at >> >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html >> >> while the following link provides felt reports from the general public >> as well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities >> >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html >> >> There have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since >> the main event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of >> background activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic >> plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise across >> the country. >> >> Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up >> to the main quake. >> >> The damage has been compounded by heavy rain and strong winds. >> >> The army has been deployed to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch >> CBD while isolated disorder is being reported as people try to access >> supermarkets and pharmacy services. >> >> Official instructions to not attend the hospitals except in cases of >> serious emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other >> small businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have >> been inspected by structural engineers. >> >> There is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with >> 20% of Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time >> to repair. >> >> All schools are closed until at least Wednesday. >> >> A selection of local media >> >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=1502981 >> http://www.scoop.co.nz/ >> http://www.stuff.co.nz/ >> http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news >> http://www.3news.co.nz/ >> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news >> >> >> On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote: >>> Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that >>> you would. >>> When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that >>> the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. >>> Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" >>> then. >>> Best regards, >>> Jerry >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Dave Nelson >>> *To:* psnlist@.............. >>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN >>> >>> Hey Jerry, >>> its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking >>> and liquefaction >>> is proportion to a number of things, including.... >>> distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves >>> magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking >>> soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc >>> >>> I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited >>> there many >>> times >>> over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went >>> through >>> this quake. >>> A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is >>> very >>> soft wet soils >>> being an estuary area of 2 rivers. >>> When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you >>> only had >>> to dig >>> down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill >>> with water. >>> >>> So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in >>> how much >>> damage is going to occur. >>> Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as >>> they found >>> out in that >>> huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but >>> the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of >>> shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and >>> severe >>> damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) >>> REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness... >>> very strict building codes etc etc >>> >>> cheers >>> Dave Nelson >>> Sydney >>> Ex New Zealand >>> >>> At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >>> >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New >>> Zealand >>> >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction >>> to the >>> >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. >>> > >>> >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at >>> Victoria >>> >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch >>> had "acted >>> >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to >>> smaller >>> >buildings." >>> > >>> >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? >>> > >>> >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "Kareem J. Lanier" system98765@............. Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 20:54:48 -0700 Well... By Euan Smith's statement, he is also implying that other places which have "soft soils" will experience or has experienced this same "shock absorbed shaking". Was he comparing this to other similar sized quakes with similar soil conditions? If so, what areas? I would love to see how he came to that conclusion. More details needed. we've all read those published papers from earthquake engineers discussing the affects of heavy shaking or high accelerated motion caused by earthquakes. From those papers, it's usually the larger or taller buildings that are affected more so by the ground motion. I haven't seen any of the pictures from that area but have read a lot of eyewitness accounts which reported a good deal of heavy shaking. -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Dave Nelson Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 2:05 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN Hey Jerry, its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking and liquifaction is proportion to a number of things, including.... distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited there many times over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went through this quake. A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is very soft wet soils being an estuary area of 2 rivers. When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you only had to dig down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill with water. So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in how much damage is going to occur. Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as they found out in that huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and severe damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake prepardness... very strict building codes etc etc cheers Dave Nelson Sydney Ex New Zealand At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New Zealand >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction to the >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. > >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at Victoria >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch had "acted >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to smaller >buildings." > >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? > >Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 05:57:33 +0000 Also, Simply To Be Verbose, It is my understanding that Eigen mode is simply a fancy way of saying There is a fundamental sympathetic SYSTEM resonant frequency. It applies to any mechanical system regardless how complex its physical makeup. It has always seems so silly to me that people don't just say resonates instead of always having to give credit to people who in the past have simply stated the obvious. If you need to cite a genuine mathematical set of equations then I understand the reference to Eigen who was most probably some famous dead person from the distant past. So like the earth/ground showed a natural resonance at whatever period or frequency. Resonance means so much more to me than Eigen anything which requires a university degree to understand. If you are a history buff then I understand all those references to peoples of the past. Ill bet [speculatively only] if you could give planet earth a shove into the sun Then, let it go, then it might have a resonant frequency as it re stabilizes in its orbit, Now what would you call such a thing as that ??? Earth Eigen Mode or some kind of resonance for the Earth/Moon/Sun System. You get a wavelike motion as the Earth/Moon orbits the Sun. Mother Nature has done everything man has done a billion years before man came along. Why give credit to man any more than the Dollars of pay for his work. Please, Just call it, "Resonance" Then I don't need to look up anything else. If you do that, I will not have to say "Lee De Forest Electron Valve" when talking about a simple Triode vacuum tube. Although I have heard of Earthquake accelerations in excess of 32F/s^2 which makes two ton boulders hop out of their places and move quite a good number of feet, I have never heard of well dampened soil such as youse-guys have talked about in that recent NZ EQ. It [The Ground ] seems to have functioned like a giant automobile shock absorber. Best Regards, geoff -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kay Wyatt" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:26 AM To: Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > Mark, > > Can you explain the following sentence from your email... > > "Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to > the > main quake." > > Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks muchly! > > Kay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Robinson" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:51 PM > Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > > >> NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at >> >>> http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchurch-earthquake.html >> >> It includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is >> variously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up to >> 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs. >> >> The main event report is at >> >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html >> >> while the following link provides felt reports from the general public as >> well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities >> >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html >> >> There have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since the >> main event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of >> background activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic >> plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise across the >> country. >> >> Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to >> the main quake. >> >> The damage has been compounded by heavy rain and strong winds. >> >> The army has been deployed to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch CBD >> while isolated disorder is being reported as people try to access >> supermarkets and pharmacy services. >> >> Official instructions to not attend the hospitals except in cases of >> serious emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other small >> businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have been >> inspected by structural engineers. >> >> There is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20% of >> Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time to repair. >> >> All schools are closed until at least Wednesday. >> >> A selection of local media >> >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=1502981 >> http://www.scoop.co.nz/ >> http://www.stuff.co.nz/ >> http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news >> http://www.3news.co.nz/ >> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news >> >> >> On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote: >>> Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping that >>> you would. >>> When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that >>> the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometimes. >>> Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet sponge" >>> then. >>> Best regards, >>> Jerry >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Dave Nelson >>> *To:* psnlist@.............. >>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN >>> >>> Hey Jerry, >>> its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking >>> and liquefaction >>> is proportion to a number of things, including.... >>> distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves >>> magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking >>> soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc >>> >>> I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited >>> there many >>> times >>> over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went >>> through >>> this quake. >>> A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is >>> very >>> soft wet soils >>> being an estuary area of 2 rivers. >>> When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you >>> only had >>> to dig >>> down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill >>> with water. >>> >>> So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in >>> how much >>> damage is going to occur. >>> Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as >>> they found >>> out in that >>> huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, >>> but >>> the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of >>> shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and >>> severe >>> damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) >>> REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake >>> prepardness... >>> very strict building codes etc etc >>> >>> cheers >>> Dave Nelson >>> Sydney >>> Ex New Zealand >>> >>> At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >>> >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New >>> Zealand >>> >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradiction >>> to the >>> >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the ground. >>> > >>> >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at >>> Victoria >>> >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch >>> had "acted >>> >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage to >>> smaller >>> >buildings." >>> > >>> >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? >>> > >>> >Jerry >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of >> the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 12:39:35 -0000 (UTC) Hi, I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the email from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Hi Jon, > > What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or > more > emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent > that > you entirely missed? > > It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. > > Regards, > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jonfr@......... > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM > Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > Hello, > > For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting part > of > the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks that > way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the moment. > But > I can check that next weekend. > > Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, so > that this issue can be confirmed. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 07:48:08 -0500 Yeah, don't you just LOVE computers! (smile) I guess that I am just dense, but HOW do you know there HAVE been email that you did not receive? Are you receiving the ongoing exchange and comments in the last day or two about the NZ event? Obviously, you are receiving my emails via the PSN net. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: jonfr@......... To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:39 AM Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList Hi, I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the email from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Hi Jon, > > What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or > more > emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent > that > you entirely missed? > > It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. > > Regards, > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jonfr@......... > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM > Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > Hello, > > For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting part > of > the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks that > way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the moment. > But > I can check that next weekend. > > Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, so > that this issue can be confirmed. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Yeah, don't you just LOVE computers! (smile)
 
I guess that I am just dense, but HOW do you know there HAVE been = email=20 that you did not receive? 
 
Are you receiving the ongoing exchange and comments in the last day = or two=20 about the NZ event?  Obviously, you are receiving my emails via the = PSN=20 net.
 
Jerry
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 jonfr@.........=20
Sent: Monday, September 06, = 2010 7:39=20 AM
Subject: Re: I am only getting = part of=20 the messages on PSNList

Hi,

I don't mean it like that. But I mean = sometimes I do=20 not get the email
from the psn list since the change, for some = unknown=20 reason.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

> Hi = Jon,
>
>=20 What do you mean "part of the emails?"  Do you mean sections of = one=20 or
> more
> emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have=20 knowledge of emails sent
> that
> you entirely=20 missed?
>
> It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as = far as I=20 know.
>
> Regards,
> = Jerry
>
>   -----=20 Original Message -----
>   From: jonfr@.........
>   = To: psnlist@..............
>=   =20 Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM
>   Subject: = I am=20 only getting part of the messages on=20 PSNList
>
>
>   = Hello,
>
>  =20 For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting = part
>=20 of
>   the emails that are going around on = PSN-Postlist. At=20 least it looks that
>   way. I don't my main email = client to=20 check older emails at the moment.
> But
>   I = can check=20 that next weekend.
>
>   Is this problem = happening to=20 others here too ? I would like to know, so
>   that = this issue=20 can be confirmed.
>
>   = Regards,
>   J=F3n=20 Fr=EDmann.
>
>  =20 = __________________________________________________________
>
>= ;  =20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List = (PSNLIST)
>
>   To=20 leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
>   the body of the message (first line only):=20 unsubscribe
>   See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more=20 = information.
>


_________________________________________= _________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 08:58:59 -0400 Kay, My first assumption was that they were referring to the whole-earth vibration modes, having periods from several minutes to roughly an hour, though I'd expect that you would usually see them after a big quake, not before. Brett At 10:26 PM 9/5/2010, you wrote: >Mark, > >Can you explain the following sentence from your email... > >"Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up to the >main quake." > >Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks muchly! > >Kay __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN From: "Finke, John" John.Finke@.......... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 10:07:37 -0500 To describe a system that vibrates one can write an equation to describe = that vibration. A means to solve the equation would be to use Eigen's method resulting in the=20 =20 Eigenmodes or Eigenvectors and Eigenvalues. =20 Eigenmodes and or Eigenvectors are the shapes of the system undergoing vibration and the Eigenvalues, typically sovled for, are the natural frequencies of the system. The lowest value of which is called the fundamental frequency or first natural frequency. =20 =20 Based on the context used, I would take it to mean that the earth was vibrating in many, many different shapes. This is certainlyt possible gi= ven the make up of the ground (soil) or different rock in the mantle and deep= er. =20 I should mention that the Eigenmode is not equal to the resonance frequen= cy at all. Rather the one of the eigenvalues of the system can be the reson= ance frequency. =20 I hope this helps shed some light on the matter. =20 Best Regards =20 ________________________________ From: psnlist-request@.............. on behalf of Geoffrey Sent: Mon 9/6/2010 12:57 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN Also, Simply To Be Verbose, It is my understanding that Eigen mode is simply a fancy way of saying There is a fundamental sympathetic SYSTEM resonant frequenc= y. It applies to any mechanical system regardless how complex its physical makeup. It has always seems so silly to me that people don't just say resonates instead of always having to give credit to people who in the past have simply stated the obvious. If you need to cite a genuine mathematical set of equations then I understand the reference to Eigen who was most probably some famous dead person from the distant past. So like the earth/ground showed a natural resonance at whatever period or= frequency. Resonance means so much more to me than Eigen anything which requires a university degree to understand. If you are a history buff then I understand all those references to peoples of the past. Ill bet [speculatively only] if you could give planet earth a shove into = the sun Then, let it go, then it might have a resonant frequency as it re stabilizes in its orbit, Now what would you call such a thing as that ??? Earth Eigen Mode or some kind of resonance for the Earth/Moon/Sun System. You get a wavelike motion as the Earth/Moon orbits the Sun. Mother Nature has done everything man has done a billion years before man came along. Why give credit to man any more than the Dollars of pay for his work. Please, Just call it, "Resonance" Then I don't need to look up anything e= lse. If you do that, I will not have to say "Lee De Forest Electron Valve" wh= en talking about a simple Triode vacuum tube. Although I have heard of Earthquake accelerations in excess of 32F/s^2 wh= ich makes two ton boulders hop out of their places and move quite a good number of feet, I have never heard of= well dampened soil such as youse-guys have talked about in that recent NZ EQ. It [The Ground ] seems to have functioned like a giant automobile shock absorber. Best Regards, geoff -------------------------------------------------- From: "Kay Wyatt" Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:26 AM To: Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > Mark, > > Can you explain the following sentence from your email... > > "Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up = to > the > main quake." > > Sorry for my ignorance. Thanks muchly! > > Kay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mark Robinson" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:51 PM > Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN > > >> NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at >> >>> http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-2010-christchurch-earthquake.= html >> >> It includes maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is >> variously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up = to >> 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs. >> >> The main event report is at >> >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html >> >> while the following link provides felt reports from the general public= as >> well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocities >> >> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g-shaking.html >> >> There have been in excess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since = the >> main event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of >> background activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic >> plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise across= the >> country. >> >> Eigenmode activity was observed sporadically over the week leading up = to >> the main quake. >> >> The damage has been compounded by heavy rain and strong winds. >> >> The army has been deployed to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch= CBD >> while isolated disorder is being reported as people try to access >> supermarkets and pharmacy services. >> >> Official instructions to not attend the hospitals except in cases of >> serious emergency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other s= mall >> businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have been >> inspected by structural engineers. >> >> There is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20= % of >> Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time to rep= air. >> >> All schools are closed until at least Wednesday. >> >> A selection of local media >> >> http://www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=3D1502981 >> http://www.scoop.co.nz/ >> http://www.stuff.co.nz/ >> http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news >> http://www.3news.co.nz/ >> http://www.radionz.co.nz/news >> >> >> On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton wrote: >>> Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from NZ. I was hoping tha= t >>> you would. >>> When the quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared tha= t >>> the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading sometim= es. >>> Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted like a "wet spong= e" >>> then. >>> Best regards, >>> Jerry >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> *From:* Dave Nelson >>> *To:* psnlist@.............. >>> *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN >>> >>> Hey Jerry, >>> its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking >>> and liquefaction >>> is proportion to a number of things, including.... >>> distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves >>> magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe sha= king >>> soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc >>> >>> I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited >>> there many >>> times >>> over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and we= nt >>> through >>> this quake. >>> A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it= is >>> very >>> soft wet soils >>> being an estuary area of 2 rivers. >>> When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you >>> only had >>> to dig >>> down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fi= ll >>> with water. >>> >>> So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part i= n >>> how much >>> damage is going to occur. >>> Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as >>> they found >>> out in that >>> huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the cit= y, >>> but >>> the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period= of >>> shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths an= d >>> severe >>> damage (not to mention the crappy building construction) >>> REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake >>> prepardness... >>> very strict building codes etc etc >>> >>> cheers >>> Dave Nelson >>> Sydney >>> Ex New Zealand >>> >>> At 12:21 AM 6/09/2010, you wrote: >>> >I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New= >>> Zealand >>> >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a contradictio= n >>> to the >>> >California EQ where soft ground cause liquefaction of the groun= d. >>> > >>> >The quote is as follows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics a= t >>> Victoria >>> >University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch= >>> had "acted >>> >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing less damage= to >>> smaller >>> >buildings." >>> > >>> >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils? >>> > >>> >Jerry >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of >> the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged infor= mation that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, c= opying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended reci= pients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error= , please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it= from your computer. Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN=0A=0A<= META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.17037" name=3DGENERATOR>=0A= =0A
=0A
To describe a system that vibrates on= e can write an equation to describe that vibration.  A means to solv= e the equation would be to use Eigen's method resulting in the =0A
 
=0AEigenmodes or Eigenvectors
=0A
and Eigenvalues.=0A
 
=0A<= DIV dir=3Dltr>Eigenmodes and or Eigenvectors = are the shapes of the system undergoing vibration and the Eigenvalues, ty= pically sovled for, are the natural frequencies of the system.  The = lowest value of which is called the fundamental frequency or first natura= l frequency. 
=0A
 
=0A
Bas= ed on the context used, I would take it to mean that the earth was vibrat= ing in many, many different shapes.  This is certainlyt possible giv= en the make up of the ground (soil) or different rock in the mantle and d= eeper.
=0A
&= nbsp;
=0A
I should mention= that the Eigenmode is not equal to the resonance frequency at all. = Rather the one of the eigenvalues of the system can be the resonance fre= quency.
=0A
=  
=0A
I hope this hel= ps shed some light on the matter.
=0A
 
=0A
Best Regards
=0A
 
=0A

=0A
=0AFrom: psnlist-request@webtronic= s.com on behalf of Geoffrey
Sent: Mon 9/6/2010 12:57 AM
T= o: psnlist@..............
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - = AGAIN

=0A
=0A

Also, Simply To Be= Verbose,
It is my understanding that Eigen mode is simply a fancy
= way of saying There is a fundamental sympathetic SYSTEM resonant frequenc= y.
It applies to any mechanical system regardless how complex its phys= ical makeup.
It has always seems so silly to me that people don't just= say
resonates instead of always having to give credit to
people wh= o in the past have simply stated the obvious.
If you need to cite a ge= nuine mathematical set of equations
then I understand the reference to= Eigen who was most probably
some famous dead person from the distant = past.
So like the earth/ground showed a natural resonance at whatever = period or frequency.
Resonance means so much more to me than Eigen any= thing which requires
a university degree to understand. If you are a h= istory buff then I understand
all those references to peoples of the p= ast.
Ill bet [speculatively only] if you could give planet earth a sho= ve into the sun
Then, let it go,
then it might have a resonant freq= uency as it re stabilizes in
its orbit, Now what would you call such a= thing as that ???
Earth Eigen Mode or some kind of resonance for the<= BR>Earth/Moon/Sun System. You get a wavelike motion
as the Earth/Moon = orbits the Sun.
Mother Nature has done everything man has done
a bi= llion years before man came along.
Why give credit to man any more tha= n the Dollars of pay for his work.
Please, Just call it, "Resonance" T= hen I don't need to look up anything else.
If you do that,  I wil= l not have to say "Lee De Forest Electron Valve" when talking about a sim= ple Triode vacuum tube.

Although I have heard of Earthquake accele= rations in excess of 32F/s^2 which makes two ton boulders hop out of
t= heir places and move quite a good number of feet,  I have never hear= d of well dampened
soil such as youse-guys have talked about in that r= ecent NZ EQ. It [The Ground ]
seems to have functioned like a giant au= tomobile shock absorber.

Best Regards,
geoff



---= -----------------------------------------------
From: "Kay Wyatt" <= kwyatt@.............>
Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:26 AM
T= o: <psnlist@..............>
Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGA= IN

> Mark,
>
> Can you explain the following senten= ce from your email...
>
> "Eigenmode activity was observed sp= oradically over the week leading up to
> the
> main quake.">
> Sorry for my ignorance.  Thanks muchly!
>
&g= t; Kay
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:= "Mark Robinson" <mark.robinson@...............>
> To: <ps= nlist@..............>
> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 3:51 PM=
> Subject: Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN
>
>
>&g= t; NZ's geological service has a page up on the quake at
>>
&= gt;>> http://www.geonet.org.nz/news/article-sep-4-= 2010-christchurch-earthquake.html
>>
>> It includes= maps and photographs showing the surface rupture which is
>> va= riously reported as 13 and 22km in length. Lateral displacements up to>> 4m have been measured and are evident in the photographs.
&g= t;>
>> The main event report is at
>>
>> http:/= /www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/3366146g.html
>>
>= ;> while the following link provides felt reports from the general pub= lic as
>> well as measured peak ground accelerations and velocit= ies
>>
>> http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quake= s/3366146g-shaking.html
>>
>> There have been in ex= cess of 80 significant aftershocks (>mag3) since the
>> main = event and the rest of the country is showing high levels of
>> b= ackground activity with significant volcanic tremor in the volcanic
&g= t;> plateau of the North Island and unusual levels of seismic noise ac= ross the
>> country.
>>
>> Eigenmode activity = was observed sporadically over the week leading up to
>> the mai= n quake.
>>
>> The damage has been compounded by heavy = rain and strong winds.
>>
>> The army has been deployed= to enforce a cordon around the Christchurch CBD
>> while isolat= ed disorder is being reported as people try to access
>> superma= rkets and pharmacy services.
>>
>> Official instruction= s to not attend the hospitals except in cases of
>> serious emer= gency leave residents in a Catch-22 as doctors and other small
>>= ; businesses are instructed not to open until their premises have been>> inspected by structural engineers.
>>
>> Ther= e is considerable damage to the water and sewerage systems with 20% of>> Christchurch having no water supply. This will take a long time= to repair.
>>
>> All schools are closed until at least= Wednesday.
>>
>> A selection of local media
>>= ;
>> http:= //www.nzherald.co.nz/?c_id=3D1502981
>> http://www.scoop.co.nz/
>> http://www.stuff.co.nz/
>> http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news
>= > http://www.3news.co.nz/
&= gt;> http://www.radionz.co.n= z/news
>>
>>
>> On 06/09/10 09:20, GPayton= wrote:
>>> Dave, I am so glad that you answered, being from = NZ. I was hoping that
>>> you would.
>>> When the= quake occurred, I looked at Google Earth and it appeared that
>>= ;> the area was mountainous, but that software can be misleading somet= imes.
>>> Thank you for the input. I suspect the ground acted= like a "wet sponge"
>>> then.
>>> Best regards,<= BR>>>> Jerry
>>>     ----- Origi= nal Message -----
>>>     *From:* Dave Ne= lson <mailto:dave.nelso= n@...............>
>>>     *To:* p= snlist@.............. <mailt= o:psnlist@..............>
>>>     = *Sent:* Sunday, September 05, 2010 4:04 PM
>>>  &nb= sp;  *Subject:* Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN
>>>
>= ;>>     Hey Jerry,
>>>  &= nbsp;  its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking
&g= t;>>     and liquefaction
>>> =     is proportion to a number of things, including....
= >>>     distance from the quake .... attenua= tion of the waves
>>>     magnitude of th= e quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking
>>>&nb= sp;    soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc
>&= gt;>
>>>     I know Christchurch city = very well, having worked there, visited
>>>   =   there many
>>>     times
>&g= t;>     over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) = still live there and went
>>>     through=
>>>     this quake.
>>> = ;    A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on= a swamp, it is
>>>     very
>>&= gt;     soft wet soils
>>>  &nb= sp;  being an estuary area of 2 rivers.
>>>  &= nbsp;  When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, = you
>>>     only had
>>> = ;    to dig
>>>     down a= couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill
>>= >     with water.
>>>
>>>&= nbsp;    So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned a= ll play a part in
>>>     how much
>= ;>>     damage is going to occur.
>>&g= t;     Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking = is very signif. as
>>>     they found
= >>>     out in that
>>> &nb= sp;   huge quake in mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from= the city,
>>> but
>>>     th= e combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of
>= ;>>     shaking are what contributed to the hor= rific numbers of deaths and
>>>     sever= e
>>>     damage (not to mention the crap= py building construction)
>>>     REMEMBE= R ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake
>>> prepard= ness...
>>>     very strict building code= s etc etc
>>>
>>>     cheers<= BR>>>>     Dave Nelson
>>> =     Sydney
>>>     Ex New = Zealand
>>>
>>>     At 12:21 = AM 6/09/2010, you wrote:
>>>      &g= t;I was just reading an article about damages from the recent New
>= >>     Zealand
>>>   = ;   >EQ. I saw the following quote which seemed to be a cont= radiction
>>>     to the
>>>&= nbsp;     >California EQ where soft ground cause l= iquefaction of the ground.
>>>      = >
>>>      >The quote is as fo= llows: "Euan Smith, professor of Geophysics at
>>>  = ;   Victoria
>>>      >= University, speculated that the very soft soils of Christchurch
>&g= t;>     had "acted
>>>  &nbs= p;   >like a shock absorber over a short period ... doing le= ss damage to
>>>     smaller
>>&= gt;      >buildings."
>>> &n= bsp;    >
>>>     = >Is this just a matter of less water content in the soils?
>>= ;>      >
>>>   = ;   >Jerry
>>
>> _________________________= _________________________________
>>
>> Public Seismic = Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>>
>> To leave this list= email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of
>> the me= ssage (first line only): unsubscribe
>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
>>
>
> ____________________= ______________________________________
>
> Public Seismic Net= work Mailing List (PSNLIST)
>
> To leave this list email PSNL= IST-REQUEST@.............. with
> the body of the message (first li= ne only): unsubscribe
> See
http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more informa= tion.
>
________________________________________________________= __

Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave t= his list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with
the body of the mes= sage (first line only): unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for mor= e information.

 

NOTICE - This com= munication may contain confidential and privileged information that is fo= r the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distrib= ution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictl= y prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify u= s immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your comput= er. Subject: Now I Am NOT Confused - AGAIN From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 09:20:33 -0700 Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAINOh Dear! How soon we forget sometimes = about eigenvectors and eigenvalues! Thanks to all of you for helping me = pull this information about of the deep dark recesses of my mind. Thanks again! Kay Re: Now I Am Confused - AGAIN
Oh Dear!  How soon we forget = sometimes about=20 eigenvectors and eigenvalues!  Thanks to all of you for = helping me=20 pull this information about of the deep dark recesses of my = mind.
 
Thanks again!
Kay
 
Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:40:51 -0000 (UTC) Hi Jerry, I was tracking the discussion about the NZ earthquake. I didn't get the original email and I don't remember seeing it on my email client. But that does not mean it isn't there. But the first email I notice about the NZ earthquake starts rather late in the discussion. That is why I did start to wonder about it if I was getting all the email after the change. I also have had one case where I did replay to a email on the psnlist. But that email didn't get delivered and I did not get a conformation that it was received on the psnlist. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Yeah, don't you just LOVE computers! (smile) > > I guess that I am just dense, but HOW do you know there HAVE been email > that > you did not receive? > > Are you receiving the ongoing exchange and comments in the last day or two > about the NZ event? Obviously, you are receiving my emails via the PSN > net. > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jonfr@......... > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:39 AM > Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > Hi, > > I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the email > from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > > Hi Jon, > > > > What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or > > more > > emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent > > that > > you entirely missed? > > > > It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. > > > > Regards, > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jonfr@......... > > To: psnlist@.............. > > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM > > Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > > > > Hello, > > > > For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting > part > > of > > the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks > that > > way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the > moment. > > But > > I can check that next weekend. > > > > Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, > so > > that this issue can be confirmed. > > > > Regards, > > Jón Frímann. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 12:26:10 -0500 THAT is strange. I was the one that originated the discussion asking about a why there was no mention of Sand Blows when there seemed to be a similarity in moisture inn the ground. It has since evolved into a discussion about Eigenmodes, which are foreign to me (no pun intended). Good luck with your problem. I don't guess that you have a Spam Filter of sorts that may be rejecting some mails? But then, why wouldn't reject all of them, beats me?? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: jonfr@......... To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:40 AM Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList Hi Jerry, I was tracking the discussion about the NZ earthquake. I didn't get the original email and I don't remember seeing it on my email client. But that does not mean it isn't there. But the first email I notice about the NZ earthquake starts rather late in the discussion. That is why I did start to wonder about it if I was getting all the email after the change. I also have had one case where I did replay to a email on the psnlist. But that email didn't get delivered and I did not get a conformation that it was received on the psnlist. Regards, Jón Frímann. > Yeah, don't you just LOVE computers! (smile) > > I guess that I am just dense, but HOW do you know there HAVE been email > that > you did not receive? > > Are you receiving the ongoing exchange and comments in the last day or two > about the NZ event? Obviously, you are receiving my emails via the PSN > net. > > Jerry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jonfr@......... > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:39 AM > Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > Hi, > > I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the email > from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > > Hi Jon, > > > > What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or > > more > > emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent > > that > > you entirely missed? > > > > It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. > > > > Regards, > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jonfr@......... > > To: psnlist@.............. > > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM > > Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > > > > Hello, > > > > For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting > part > > of > > the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks > that > > way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the > moment. > > But > > I can check that next weekend. > > > > Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, > so > > that this issue can be confirmed. > > > > Regards, > > Jón Frímann. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
THAT is strange.  I was the one that originated the discussion = asking=20 about a why there was no mention of Sand Blows when there seemed to be a = similarity in moisture inn the ground.  It has since evolved into a = discussion about Eigenmodes, which are foreign to me (no pun = intended).
 
Good luck with your problem.  I don't guess that you have a = Spam=20 Filter of sorts that may be rejecting some mails?  But then, why = wouldn't=20 reject all of them, beats me??
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 jonfr@.........=20
Sent: Monday, September 06, = 2010 11:40=20 AM
Subject: Re: I am only getting = part of=20 the messages on PSNList

Hi Jerry,

I was tracking the discussion about = the NZ=20 earthquake. I didn't get the
original email and I don't remember = seeing it=20 on my email client. But that
does not mean it isn't = there.

But the=20 first email I notice about the NZ earthquake starts rather late = in
the=20 discussion. That is why I did start to wonder about it if I = was
getting all=20 the email after the change.

I also have had one case where I = did replay=20 to a email on the psnlist. But
that email didn't get delivered and = I did=20 not get a conformation that it
was received on the=20 psnlist.

Regards,
J=F3n Fr=EDmann.

> Yeah, don't = you just LOVE=20 computers! (smile)
>
> I guess that I am just dense, but = HOW do=20 you know there HAVE been email
> that
> you did not=20 receive?
>
> Are you receiving the ongoing exchange and = comments=20 in the last day or two
> about the NZ event?  Obviously, = you are=20 receiving my emails via the PSN
> net.
>
>=20 Jerry
>
>   ----- Original Message=20 -----
>   From: jonfr@.........
>   = To: psnlist@..............
>=   =20 Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:39 AM
>   Subject: = Re: I am=20 only getting part of the messages on=20 PSNList
>
>
>   = Hi,
>
>   I=20 don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the=20 email
>   from the psn list since the change, for some = unknown=20 reason.
>
>   Regards,
>   J=F3n = Fr=EDmann.
>
>   > Hi = Jon,
>  =20 >
>   > What do you mean "part of the = emails?"  Do=20 you mean sections of one or
>   > = more
>  =20 > emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails = sent
>   > that
>   > you = entirely=20 missed?
>   >
>   > It has been = VERY=20 quite on the list lately, as far as I know.
>  =20 >
>   > Regards,
>   >=20 Jerry
>   >
>   >   = -----=20 Original Message -----
>   >   From: jonfr@.........
>  =20 >   To: psnlist@..............
>=   =20 >   Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 = PM
>  =20 >   Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on=20 PSNList
>   >
>   = >
>  =20 >   Hello,
>   >
>  =20 >   For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am = only=20 getting
> part
>   > of
>  =20 >   the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At = least it=20 looks
> that
>   >   way. I don't = my main=20 email client to check older emails at the
> = moment.
>  =20 > But
>   >   I can check that next=20 weekend.
>   >
>   >   = Is this=20 problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know,
>=20 so
>   >   that this issue can be=20 confirmed.
>   >
>   = >  =20 Regards,
>   >   J=F3n = Fr=EDmann.
>  =20 >
>   >  =20 = __________________________________________________________
> &= nbsp;=20 >
>   >   Public Seismic Network = Mailing List=20 (PSNLIST)
>   >
>   = >   To=20 leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
>   >   the body of the message = (first line=20 only): unsubscribe
>   >   See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
>  =20 >
>
>
>  =20 = __________________________________________________________
>
>= ;  =20 Public Seismic Network Mailing List = (PSNLIST)
>
>   To=20 leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
>   the body of the message (first line only):=20 unsubscribe
>   See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more=20 = information.
>


_________________________________________= _________________

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: Kevin Brunt k.brunt@......... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 19:41:17 +0100 (BST) If you think you missed some messages, the first thing to do is to go to the PSN website and check the archive. (Though beware - there's some sort of error, so that the "2010" links are pointing to the 2009 archive!) Kevin >Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 12:39:35 -0000 (UTC) >From: jonfr@......... >Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList >To: psnlist@.............. > >Hi, > >I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the email >from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. > >Regards, >Jsn Frmmann. > >> Hi Jon, >> >> What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or >> more >> emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent >> that >> you entirely missed? >> >> It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. >> >> Regards, >> Jerry >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: jonfr@......... >> To: psnlist@.............. >> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM >> Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList >> >> >> Hello, >> >> For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting part >> of >> the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks that >> way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the moment. >> But >> I can check that next weekend. >> >> Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, so >> that this issue can be confirmed. >> >> Regards, >> Jsn Frmmann. >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > >__________________________________________________________ > >Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > >To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: New Zealand earthquake From: Tangazazen@....... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 15:19:00 EDT Hi All, There has been some discussion on the latest New Zealand earthquake and considering the magnitude, luckily no loss of life but considerable damage. Most earthquake damage is due to the surface wave. The attenuation of Rayleigh waves is significantly less than that of a body wave, approximately 1/ root of distance. For gravel and sands though, seismic velocity are low but the dispersion can be quite high, that is the energy appears in lower and lower frequency with distance. Certain types of clay particularly when wet can exhibit thixotropic properties, that is a fall in viscosity with shear stress as at Mexico city. Does anybody know of the geology of the area? Resonance can be damaging to building and as a general rule of thumb is about 10 c/s divided by the number of floors. Given the distance from the epicentre one would expect the taller building to have sustain the most damage. Is there anybody in Christchurch who can though some light on any of this? Martin Page
 
Hi All,
 
 
There has been some discussion  on the latest New Zealand earthq= uake=20 and considering the magnitude, luckily no loss of life but considerable da= mage.=20 Most earthquake damage is due to the surface wave. The attenuation of Rayl= eigh=20 waves is significantly less than that of a body wave, approximately 1/ roo= t of=20 distance.  For gravel and sands though, seismic velocity are low but= the=20 dispersion can be quite high, that is the energy appears in lower and lowe= r=20 frequency with distance. Certain types of clay particularly when wet can= exhibit=20 thixotropic properties, that is a fall in viscosity with shear stress as= at=20 Mexico city. Does anybody know of the geology of the area?
 
Resonance can be damaging to building and as a general rule of thumb= is=20 about 10 c/s divided by the number of floors.  Given the distance fro= m the=20 epicentre one would expect the taller building to have sustain the most=20 damage.
Is there anybody in Christchurch who can though some light on= any of=20 this?
 
Martin Page
Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 12:19:21 -0700 Kevin, Thanks for pointing this out. I have fixed the 2010 archive link. Regards, Larry Cochrane Redwood City, PSN On 9/6/2010 11:41 AM, Kevin Brunt wrote: > > If you think you missed some messages, the first thing to do is to go to the PSN website and check the archive. (Though beware - there's some sort of error, so that the "2010" links are pointing to the 2009 archive!) > > Kevin > >>Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 12:39:35 -0000 (UTC) >>From: jonfr@......... >>Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList >>To: psnlist@.............. >> >>Hi, >> >>I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the email >>from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. >> >>Regards, >>Jsn Frmmann. >> >>> Hi Jon, >>> >>> What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of one or >>> more >>> emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails sent >>> that >>> you entirely missed? >>> >>> It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jerry >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: jonfr@......... >>> To: psnlist@.............. >>> Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM >>> Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList >>> >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only getting part >>> of >>> the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it looks that >>> way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the moment. >>> But >>> I can check that next weekend. >>> >>> Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to know, so >>> that this issue can be confirmed. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jsn Frmmann. >>> >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >>> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >> >> >>__________________________________________________________ >> >>Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >>To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >>the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: New Zealand earthquake From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 14:35:27 -0500 Hi Martin, Dave Nelson sent the following, which alludes to the geology: Hey Jerry, its a pretty complex subject, and the amount of shaking and liquefaction is proportion to a number of things, including....distance from the quake .... attenuation of the waves magnitude of the quake .... size affects the period of severe shaking soil type .... soft, hard, gravels etc etc I know Christchurch city very well, having worked there, visited there many times over the years and my 2 kids (early 20's) still live there and went through this quake. A large portion of Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is very soft wet soils being an estuary area of 2 rivers. When I worked for telecom there and were doing cable laying, you only had to dig down a couple of feet and you holes/trenches started to slowly fill with water. So the 3 factors above and others not mentioned all play a part in how much damage is going to occur. Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. as they found out in that huge quake in Mexico in 1985 the M8.1 was a long way from the city, but the combination of the alluvial basin the city sat on, the period of shaking are what contributed to the horrific numbers of deaths and severe damage (not to mention the crappy building construction)REMEMBER .... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake preparedness...very strict building codes etc etc cheers Dave Nelson Sydney Ex New Zealand Regards, Jerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Tangazazen@....... To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 2:19 PM Subject: New Zealand earthquake Hi All, There has been some discussion on the latest New Zealand earthquake and considering the magnitude, luckily no loss of life but considerable damage. Most earthquake damage is due to the surface wave. The attenuation of Rayleigh waves is significantly less than that of a body wave, approximately 1/ root of distance. For gravel and sands though, seismic velocity are low but the dispersion can be quite high, that is the energy appears in lower and lower frequency with distance. Certain types of clay particularly when wet can exhibit thixotropic properties, that is a fall in viscosity with shear stress as at Mexico city. Does anybody know of the geology of the area? Resonance can be damaging to building and as a general rule of thumb is about 10 c/s divided by the number of floors. Given the distance from the epicentre one would expect the taller building to have sustain the most damage. Is there anybody in Christchurch who can though some light on any of this? Martin Page
Hi=20 Martin,
 
Dave Nelson sent = the following,=20 which alludes to the geology:
 
Hey=20 Jerry,
          &nb= sp;      =20 its a pretty complex subject,  and the amount of shaking and = liquefaction=20 is proportion to a number of  things, including....distance from = the=20 quake  ....  attenuation of the waves magnitude of the = quake =20 ..... size affects the period of severe shaking soil type   = ..... =20 soft, hard, gravels etc etc

I know Christchurch city very well, = having=20 worked there, visited there many times over the years and my 2 kids = (early 20's)=20 still live there and went through  this quake.  A large = portion of=20 Christchurch is basically built on a swamp, it is very
soft wet = soils being=20 an estuary area of 2 rivers.  When I worked for telecom there and = were=20 doing cable laying,  you only had
to dig down a couple of feet = and you=20 holes/trenches started to slowly fill with water.

So the 3 = factors above=20 and others not mentioned all play a part in how much damage is going to=20 occur.
Magnitude therefore period of intense shaking is very signif. = as they=20 found out in that huge quake in Mexico in 1985  the M8.1 was a = long=20 way from the city,  but the combination of the alluvial basin the = city sat=20 on,  the period of shaking  are what contributed to the = horrific=20 numbers of deaths and severe damage (not to mention the crappy building=20 construction)REMEMBER ... New Zealand is pretty anal about earthquake=20 preparedness...very strict building codes  etc = etc

cheers
Dave=20 Nelson
Sydney
Ex New Zealand
 
Regards,
Jerry


----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Tangazazen@.......
Sent: Monday, September 06, = 2010 2:19=20 PM
Subject: New Zealand = earthquake

 
Hi All,
 
 
There has been some discussion  on the latest New Zealand = earthquake=20 and considering the magnitude, luckily no loss of life but = considerable=20 damage. Most earthquake damage is due to the surface wave. The = attenuation of=20 Rayleigh waves is significantly less than that of a body wave, = approximately=20 1/ root of distance.  For gravel and sands though, seismic = velocity are=20 low but the dispersion can be quite high, that is the energy appears = in lower=20 and lower frequency with distance. Certain types of clay particularly = when wet=20 can exhibit thixotropic properties, that is a fall in viscosity with = shear=20 stress as at Mexico city. Does anybody know of the geology of the = area?
 
Resonance can be damaging to building and as a general rule of = thumb is=20 about 10 c/s divided by the number of floors.  Given the distance = from=20 the epicentre one would expect the taller building to have sustain the = most=20 damage.
Is there anybody in Christchurch who can though some light = on any=20 of this?
 
Martin Page
Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList From: jonfr@......... Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 21:26:59 -0000 (UTC) Hi Jerry, I don't have a spam filter on my email server. It is all done local on my pc. Reason for that is so that I don't loose any email. As I filter the email in my email client, they don't go to the spam box. I will confirm if this is a problem next weekend, when I go home from school. Regards, Jón Frímann > THAT is strange. I was the one that originated the discussion asking > about > a why there was no mention of Sand Blows when there seemed to be a > similarity in moisture inn the ground. It has since evolved into a > discussion about Eigenmodes, which are foreign to me (no pun intended). > > Good luck with your problem. I don't guess that you have a Spam Filter of > sorts that may be rejecting some mails? But then, why wouldn't reject all > of them, beats me?? > > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: jonfr@......... > To: psnlist@.............. > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:40 AM > Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > Hi Jerry, > > I was tracking the discussion about the NZ earthquake. I didn't get the > original email and I don't remember seeing it on my email client. But > that > does not mean it isn't there. > > But the first email I notice about the NZ earthquake starts rather late > in > the discussion. That is why I did start to wonder about it if I was > getting all the email after the change. > > I also have had one case where I did replay to a email on the psnlist. > But > that email didn't get delivered and I did not get a conformation that it > was received on the psnlist. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > > > Yeah, don't you just LOVE computers! (smile) > > > > I guess that I am just dense, but HOW do you know there HAVE been > email > > that > > you did not receive? > > > > Are you receiving the ongoing exchange and comments in the last day or > two > > about the NZ event? Obviously, you are receiving my emails via the > PSN > > net. > > > > Jerry > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: jonfr@......... > > To: psnlist@.............. > > Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 7:39 AM > > Subject: Re: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I don't mean it like that. But I mean sometimes I do not get the > email > > from the psn list since the change, for some unknown reason. > > > > Regards, > > Jón Frímann. > > > > > Hi Jon, > > > > > > What do you mean "part of the emails?" Do you mean sections of > one > or > > > more > > > emails is blank or missing - OR - do you have knowledge of emails > sent > > > that > > > you entirely missed? > > > > > > It has been VERY quite on the list lately, as far as I know. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Jerry > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: jonfr@......... > > > To: psnlist@.............. > > > Sent: Sunday, September 05, 2010 9:54 PM > > > Subject: I am only getting part of the messages on PSNList > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > For some reasons unknown to me, it appears that I am only > getting > > part > > > of > > > the emails that are going around on PSN-Postlist. At least it > looks > > that > > > way. I don't my main email client to check older emails at the > > moment. > > > But > > > I can check that next weekend. > > > > > > Is this problem happening to others here too ? I would like to > know, > > so > > > that this issue can be confirmed. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Jón Frímann. > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more > information. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Question about John Lahr's work From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 15:57:50 -0700 Dear friends, John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience activities and experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but there is one in particular that I could use some help on. I have posted some pictures at http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not familiar with torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was John's primary focus). Could this be something else related to earthquakes? Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see it in action. http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG If any of you have ideas, please let me know. Thanks so much, Kay Wyatt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 19:29:30 -0400 Hi Kay, At 06:57 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote: >Dear friends, > >John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience >activities and experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but >there is one in particular that I could use some help on. I have >posted some pictures at http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. > >The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not >familiar with torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was >John's primary focus). Could this be something else related to earthquakes? Most definitely. To completely describe the motions of an object (like the ground under my house) during an earthquake requires six numbers, three representing linear motions (like N,E & Z) and three describing rotational motions. Until the last decade or two, the rotations weren't much discussed or measured since, among other things, they are usually rather small. In the last decade or so, the field of 'rotational seismology' has been gaining increasing attention. Searching on that phrase will get quite a few hits. >Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see >it in action. >http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG > >If any of you have ideas, please let me know. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 21:17:14 -0500 Kay I "think" it may be a demo of a LOVE Wave. See the animations: http://www.tjhsst.edu/~jlafever/wanimate/Wave_Properties2.html Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Kay Wyatt To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:57 PM Subject: Question about John Lahr's work Dear friends, John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience activities and experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but there is one in particular that I could use some help on. I have posted some pictures at http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not familiar with torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was John's primary focus). Could this be something else related to earthquakes? Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see it in action. http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG If any of you have ideas, please let me know. Thanks so much, Kay Wyatt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Kay I "think" it may be a demo of a LOVE Wave.  See the=20 animations: 
h= ttp://www.tjhsst.edu/~jlafever/wanimate/Wave_Properties2.html
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kay Wyatt=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, = 2010 5:57=20 PM
Subject: Question about John = Lahr's=20 work

Dear friends,

John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me = much of=20 John's earthscience activities and
experiements.  I'm = familiar with=20 most of them, but there is one in
particular that I could use some = help=20 on.  I have posted some pictures at
http://www.oregonshakes.c= om/temp/Lahr/=20 for your review.

The device appears to be a torsion wave = generator but=20 I'm not familiar with
torsion waves generated by earthquakes = (which was=20 John's primary focus).
Could this be something else related to=20 earthquakes?

Be sure to look at the move link on the website so = that=20 you can see it in
action.
http://www.o= regonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG

If=20 any of you have ideas, please let me know.

Thanks so = much,
Kay=20 = Wyatt


________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe
See = http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work From: "Kay Wyatt" kwyatt@............. Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 19:59:31 -0700 Jerry, That was my first thought, too. If we were to hold the device so that = the dowel rods were vertical, then it would be close to a Love Wave. = However, a Love wave attenuates quickly with depth. So the movement = should be much less on the bottom. But John made the connections in the = exact center of the dowel rods so that the movement is identical on the = bottom as the top, which would not make it a good representation of a = Love wave. =20 Am I wrong? Kay ----- Original Message -----=20 From: GPayton=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 7:17 PM Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work Kay I "think" it may be a demo of a LOVE Wave. See the animations: =20 http://www.tjhsst.edu/~jlafever/wanimate/Wave_Properties2.html Jerry ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Kay Wyatt=20 To: psnlist@................. Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 5:57 PM Subject: Question about John Lahr's work Dear friends, John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience = activities and=20 experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but there is one in=20 particular that I could use some help on. I have posted some = pictures at=20 http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not = familiar with=20 torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was John's primary = focus).=20 Could this be something else related to earthquakes? Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see = it in=20 action. http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG If any of you have ideas, please let me know. Thanks so much, Kay Wyatt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with=20 the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.
Jerry,
That was my first thought, too.  If we were = to hold=20 the device so that the dowel rods were vertical, then it would be close = to a=20 Love Wave.  However, a Love wave attenuates quickly with = depth.  So=20 the movement should be much less on the bottom.  But John made the=20 connections in the exact center of the dowel rods so that the movement = is=20 identical on the bottom as the top, which would not make it a good=20 representation of a Love wave. 
Am I wrong?
Kay
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 GPayton=20
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, = 2010 7:17=20 PM
Subject: Re: Question about = John Lahr's=20 work

Kay I "think" it may be a demo of a LOVE Wave.  See the = animations: 
h= ttp://www.tjhsst.edu/~jlafever/wanimate/Wave_Properties2.html
 
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Kay=20 Wyatt
Sent: Wednesday, September = 08, 2010=20 5:57 PM
Subject: Question about John = Lahr's=20 work

Dear friends,

John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me = much of=20 John's earthscience activities and
experiements.  I'm = familiar with=20 most of them, but there is one in
particular that I could use = some help=20 on.  I have posted some pictures at
http://www.oregonshakes.c= om/temp/Lahr/=20 for your review.

The device appears to be a torsion wave = generator=20 but I'm not familiar with
torsion waves generated by earthquakes = (which=20 was John's primary focus).
Could this be something else related = to=20 earthquakes?

Be sure to look at the move link on the website = so that=20 you can see it in
action.
http://www.o= regonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG

If=20 any of you have ideas, please let me know.

Thanks so = much,
Kay=20 = Wyatt


________________________________________________________= __

Public=20 Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)

To leave this list = email PSNLIST-REQUEST@SEISMICNET= ..COM=20 with
the body of the message (first line only): = unsubscribe
See http://www.seismicnet.co= m/maillist.html=20 for more information.
Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work From: Karl Cunningham karlc@.......... Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:38:22 -0700 Kay, My guess is that this device was simply to demonstrate wave propagation, and reflection at the ends (representing media boundaries). I doubt that the wave is torsional is important to the demonstration. Another fact that might have been mentioned during a demonstration is that the motion of the end of each dowel appears up-and-down, for small amplitudes when viewed from the side. I have seen demonstrations using the same type of apparatus, where a few of the dowel ends are painted with bright colors so their motion can be more easily followed when observed from the side. Karl Kay Wyatt wrote: > Dear friends, > > John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience activities > and experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but there is one in > particular that I could use some help on. I have posted some pictures > at http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. > > The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not familiar > with torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was John's primary > focus). Could this be something else related to earthquakes? > > Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see it > in action. > http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG > > If any of you have ideas, please let me know. > > Thanks so much, > Kay Wyatt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work From: Bob Hancock icarus@......... Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 21:54:05 -0700 Kay - I found the following link of John Lahr working with slinkies in 2002, = but it also talks about torsional waves. I don't know if you have seen = this link or not. Its possible that the movie is a follow-on to the = message that he was conveying. = http://www.exo.net/~pauld/summer_institute/summer_day10waves/wavetypes.htm= l Cheers,=20 Bob Hancock On Sep 8, 2010, at 3:57 PM, Kay Wyatt wrote: > Dear friends, >=20 > John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience activities = and experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but there is one in = particular that I could use some help on. I have posted some pictures = at http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. >=20 > The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not familiar = with torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was John's primary = focus). Could this be something else related to earthquakes? >=20 > Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see it = in action. > http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG >=20 > If any of you have ideas, please let me know. >=20 > Thanks so much, > Kay Wyatt >=20 >=20 > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >=20 > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >=20 __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Question about John Lahr's work From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 08:44:33 -0700 John was "the great student hands-on demonstrator". My guess was this device was intended for a classroom and student interaction. Did you happen to also receive the very long 12-inch wide sandpaper cover board and red brick attached to a rubber cord and large hand-crake-real? John used that one to demonstrate how strike slip faults would lock and then suddenly leap forward. I saw John for the first time at IBM in San Jose talking in front of 1,000 people about earthquake preparedness. He was in the middle of his pitch when he setup this long board and placed the brick at one end and started cranking on the real at the other. As he talked about locked faults in the Bay Area he mentioned how the brick and the board represented two sides of a fault and he kept talking and talking and the cord got more and more tension. Then, suddenly, the red brick leaped into the air and flew up the board. It was a very convincing demonstration on stored tension. In later years John told me he had figured out how many turns on the handle it took to make the brick move so, he would time cranking the real with his pitch so that it leaped forward at the right point in his talk. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, California -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Karl Cunningham Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2010 9:38 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Question about John Lahr's work Kay, My guess is that this device was simply to demonstrate wave propagation, and reflection at the ends (representing media boundaries). I doubt that the wave is torsional is important to the demonstration. Another fact that might have been mentioned during a demonstration is that the motion of the end of each dowel appears up-and-down, for small amplitudes when viewed from the side. I have seen demonstrations using the same type of apparatus, where a few of the dowel ends are painted with bright colors so their motion can be more easily followed when observed from the side. Karl Kay Wyatt wrote: > Dear friends, > > John Lahr's wife, Jan, gave me much of John's earthscience activities > and experiements. I'm familiar with most of them, but there is one in > particular that I could use some help on. I have posted some pictures > at http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/ for your review. > > The device appears to be a torsion wave generator but I'm not familiar > with torsion waves generated by earthquakes (which was John's primary > focus). Could this be something else related to earthquakes? > > Be sure to look at the move link on the website so that you can see it > in action. > http://www.oregonshakes.com/temp/Lahr/MOV04260a.MPG > > If any of you have ideas, please let me know. > > Thanks so much, > Kay Wyatt __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: "C" Spring Seismometer From: QUENTIN WAGENFIELD wagen@..... Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2010 20:49:59 -0500 I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not r= aise the boom=2C even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are special b= lades required=2C and if so=2C where can they be bought? =20 Quentin Wagenfield = I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not&n= bsp=3Braise the boom=2C even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are sp= ecial blades required=2C and if so=2C where can they be bought?
 =3B
Quentin Wagenfield
= Subject: Re: "C" Spring Seismometer From: "Ed Ianni" edwianni1@........... Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 02:20:57 +0000 I built one sometime ago. As I recall the 12" hacksaw blades worked = well. Maybe you need to adjust the stabilizing blocks or grind the teeth = off of the blades. Ed. From: QUENTIN WAGENFIELD=20 Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 1:49 AM To: psnlist@................. Subject: "C" Spring Seismometer I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do = not raise the boom, even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are = special blades required, and if so, where can they be bought? =20 Quentin Wagenfield
I built one sometime ago. As I recall the 12" = hacksaw=20 blades worked well. Maybe you need to adjust the stabilizing blocks or = grind the=20 teeth off of the blades.   Ed.
 
 

From: QUENTIN WAGENFIELD
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 1:49 AM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: "C" Spring Seismometer

I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" = hacksaw=20 blades do not raise the boom, even with the magnet and damper not = mounted.=20 Are special blades required, and if so, where can they be=20 bought?
 
Quentin Wagenfield
Subject: Re: "C" Spring Seismometer From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:46:33 -0400 Quentin, I would check the weight of the boom. The weight of a 24" piece of 1/2" square, 1/16" wall aluminum tube should be roughly 4oz (113g). If the boom weighs a lot more than that, the suggested spring likely wouldn't be able to support it properly. Hope that helps. Brett At 09:49 PM 9/9/2010, you wrote: >I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades >do not raise the boom, even with the magnet and damper not mounted. >Are special blades required, and if so, where can they be bought? > >Quentin Wagenfield __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: FBA-11 modification From: Len Polucci lenpolucci@......... Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 10:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Hi everybody, I was wondering if any of our knowledgeable members might=A0p= rovide =0Ame with=A0info about changing an FB-11 currently with a F.S. rang= e=A0of +/- 1g to a =0Arange of .1 to .25g ? I believe it is a change in the= value of the feedback =0Aresistor..plus a few other minor changes possibly= ..=A0Would anyone have a =0Aschematic?=A0Absolute values are not a requireme= nt. Thanks so much. Len=0A=0A=0A
Hi everybody, I was wondering if any of our knowledgea= ble members might provide me with info about changing an FB-11 cu= rrently with a F.S. range of +/- 1g to a range of .1 to .25g ? I belie= ve it is a change in the value of the feedback resistor..plus a few other m= inor changes possibly. Would anyone have a schematic? Absolute va= lues are not a requirement. Thanks so much. Len

=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0A=0A Subject: Re: "C" Spring Seismometer From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:09:41 -0700 (PDT) 2 cents=0AI built mine from 12" + taping blades you can get from the hardwa= re store but =0Athey maybe too stiff even when cut thinner. What about a ba= nd saw blade section? =0AI dont think they are made of spring steel though.= I think the return spring on =0Athe inside of a 1" tape measure maybe too = thin.=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom:= QUENTIN WAGENFIELD =0ATo: psnlist@...................... Thu,= September 9, 2010 6:49:59 PM=0ASubject: "C" Spring Seismometer=0A=0AI am b= uilding the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not=A0raise= =0Athe boom, even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are special blad= es =0Arequired, and if so, where can they be bought?=0A=A0=0AQuentin Wagenf= ield=0A
=0A
2 cents
=0A
I built mine from 1= 2" + taping blades you can get from the hardware store but they maybe too s= tiff even when cut thinner. What about a band saw blade section? I dont thi= nk they are made of spring steel though. I think the return spring on the i= nside of a 1" tape measure maybe too thin.
 
Regards
Barry<= BR>=0A
=0A
=0A
= =0AFrom: QUENTIN WAGENFIELD= <wagen@.....>
To:= psnlist@..............
Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 6:49:59 PM
Subject: "C" Spring Seismometer

=0A=0AI am building the "C' Sprin= g Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not raise the boom, even wi= th the magnet and damper not mounted. Are special blades required, and if s= o, where can they be bought?
 
Quentin Wagenfield
Subject: Re: "C" Spring Seismometer From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 15:52:00 -0700 (PDT) Another thought occured to me. If you make the blade shorter it would stiff= en it =0Aup, as long as you don't make it too short and exceed the elastic = limit=0A=0A=A0Regards=0ABarry=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFr= om: QUENTIN WAGENFIELD =0ATo: psnlist@...................... T= hu, September 9, 2010 6:49:59 PM=0ASubject: "C" Spring Seismometer=0A=0AI a= m building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not=A0ra= ise =0Athe boom, even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are special b= lades =0Arequired, and if so, where can they be bought?=0A=A0=0AQuentin Wag= enfield=0A
=0A
Another thought occured to me. If you ma= ke the blade shorter it would stiffen it up, as long as you don't make it t= oo short and exceed the elastic limit
=0A

 
Regards<= BR>Barry
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: QUENTIN WA= GENFIELD <wagen@.....>
To: psnlist@..............
Sen= t: Thu, September 9, 2010 6:49:59 PM
Subject: "C" Spring Seismometer

=0A=0AI am building the "= C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not raise the boom,= even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are special blades required, = and if so, where can they be bought?
 
Quentin Wagenfield
Subject: Pis From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 19:07:27 -0500 Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for a core or mantle reflection? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: FW: "C" Spring Seismometer From: QUENTIN WAGENFIELD wagen@..... Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 19:08:58 -0500 Thanks all for your information and instructions for the C Spring seismomet= er. I cheated on the boom and used 3/4 in. 1/16 in. aluminum stock with rei= nforcing ridges on two sides from my scrap box that weighs 9.7 oz. I'll tr= y to find some 1/2" stock=2C and also try the other remedies suggested. Thanks again. =20 Quentin Wagenfield =20 =20 From: wagen@..... To: psnlist@.............. Subject: "C" Spring Seismometer Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 20:49:59 -0500 I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not r= aise the boom=2C even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are special b= lades required=2C and if so=2C where can they be bought? =20 Quentin Wagenfield = Thanks all for your information and instructions for the C Spring seismomet= er. I cheated on the boom and used 3/4 in. 1/16 in. aluminum stock with rei= nforcing ridges on two sides from my scrap box that weighs 9.7 oz. =3B = I'll try to find some 1/2" stock=2C and also try the other remedies suggest= ed.
Thanks again.
 =3B
Quentin Wagenfield
 =3B

 =3B

From: wagen@.....
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: "C" Spring Seis= mometer
Date: Thu=2C 9 Sep 2010 20:49:59 -0500

I am building the "C' Spring Seismometer but my 12" hacksaw blades do not&n= bsp=3Braise the boom=2C even with the magnet and damper not mounted. Are sp= ecial blades required=2C and if so=2C where can they be bought?
 =3B=
Quentin Wagenfield
= Subject: GVA down with A/D hardware troubles From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 06:21:45 +0000 Hello PSN; My A/D converter is showing terrible internal noise even with no connections. Random spikes in magnitude of like +/- 7 or 14 counts no matter what the load or power source. I have watched this noise increase slowly over the years and have no idea except possibly bad capacitors on the A/D board. I have researched the schematic and find differences in MAX187 specs and what they built. There are areas where I think Electrolytics should not have been used. I may try to change them just to see if I'm right.. Will be down until its fixed. Don't Hold Your breath, Id hate to see a lot of purple faces out there. Best regards, geoff __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 03:41:22 +0000 To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as an S wave but that's kind of ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S waves can travel through liquids. An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to nothing. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Dick" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM To: Subject: Pis > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and > broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as Pis. > I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for a core > or mantle reflection? > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: John Cole johncole0722@....... Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 10:34:11 -0700 (PDT) ________________________________ From: Geoffrey To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM Subject: Re: Pis To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as an S wave but that's kind of ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S waves can travel through liquids. An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to nothing. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Dick" Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM To: Subject: Pis > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and broadside >Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as Pis. I can't find a >reference to it. Is this some old designation for a core or mantle reflection? >__________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the >message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information.



From: Geoffrey <gmvoeth@...........>
To: psnlist@..............
Sent: Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM
Subject: Re: Pis

To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as an S wave but that's kind of
ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S waves can travel
through liquids.
An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to nothing.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Thomas Dick" <dickthomas01@.............>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM
To: <psnlist@..............>
Subject: Pis

> Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for a core or mantle reflection? __________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Pis From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 21:43:38 -0500 Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? John Cole wrote: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Geoffrey > *To:* psnlist@.............. > *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pis > > To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as > an S wave but that's kind of > ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S > waves can travel > through liquids. > An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to > nothing. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Thomas Dick" > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM > To: > > Subject: Pis > > > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and > broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as > Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for > a core or mantle reflection? > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message > (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message > (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: RE: Pis From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 23:14:12 -0700 I once asked John Lahr this same question and he told me there was nothing before the P wave. I asked because I would see something before P in events that were south of me in Morgan Hill and Gilroy when my station was in South San Jose. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 7:44 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Pis Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? John Cole wrote: > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Geoffrey > *To:* psnlist@.............. > *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pis > > To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as > an S wave but that's kind of > ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S > waves can travel > through liquids. > An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to > nothing. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Thomas Dick" > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM > To: > > Subject: Pis > > > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and > broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as > Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for > a core or mantle reflection? > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message > (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. > with the body of the message > (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:47:02 +0000 Just iP which means Impulsive arrival or eP which is an emerging weave. i or e can come before the P ? But like Are you saying the first of the P phases is what is called just plain P ?? So if you get a Pn or Pg first you can call either one of those simply "P" ? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Stephen Hammond" Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 6:14 AM To: Subject: RE: Pis > I once asked John Lahr this same question and he told me there was nothing > before the P wave. I asked because I would see something before P in events > that were south of me in Morgan Hill and Gilroy when my station was in South > San Jose. > Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... > On Behalf Of Thomas Dick > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 7:44 PM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: Pis > > Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I > figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? > > John Cole wrote: >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Geoffrey >> *To:* psnlist@.............. >> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pis >> >> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as >> an S wave but that's kind of >> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S >> waves can travel >> through liquids. >> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to >> nothing. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Thomas Dick" > > >> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM >> To: > >> Subject: Pis >> >> > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and >> broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as >> Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for >> a core or mantle reflection? >> __________________________________________________________ >> > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> > >> > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 08:28:26 -0500 > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Thomas Dick" > > Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM > To: > > Subject: Pis > > > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and > broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as > Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for > a core or mantle reflection? > __________________________________________________________ > I too am at a loss. Question: could his be misread and was a ( ' ) instead of an ( i ) = P's? I'm also wondering IF a quake of a sufficiently WIDE distance might generate two or more P waves for a regional event? Your message says "well ahead." How much ahead? I supply the following sites, no solution. Jerry http://www.tjhsst.edu/~jlafever/wanimate/Wave_Properties2.html http://www.isc.ac.uk/doc/analysis/2003p13/index.html
 
> --------------------------------------------------
> = From:=20 "Thomas Dick" <dickthomas01@.............= =20
> <mailto:dickthomas01@........... com>>
>=20 Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM
> To: <psnlist@.............. = <mailto:psnlist@..............&= gt;>
>=20 Subject: Pis
>
> > Using Winquake, particularly on = regional=20 events, the vertical and
> broadside Lehman show a peak well = ahead of P=20 which it designates as
> Pis. I can't find a reference to it. = Is this=20 some old designation for
> a core or mantle reflection? =
>=20 = __________________________________________________________
>
 
I too am at a loss.  Question: could his be misread = and was a=20 ( ' ) instead of an ( i ) =3D P's?  I'm also wondering IF a quake = of a=20 sufficiently WIDE distance might generate two or more P waves for = a=20 regional event?   Your message says "well ahead."  How = much=20 ahead?
 
I supply the following sites, no solution.
Jerry
 
h= ttp://www.tjhsst.edu/~jlafever/wanimate/Wave_Properties2.html
 
http://www.= isc.ac.uk/doc/analysis/2003p13/index.html
Subject: Testing Of Seismic System From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 13:58:26 +0000 Hello PSN; I just this morning took a 4.5LB avdp. plumbum (lead) weight out and sat it next to my geophone (geophone is resting 2ft underground) suspended on a vertical spring. As I was recording I sat the mass vertically oscillating up and down at about a one second period. I saw no signal. Only myself moving about made any signals at all. From this little test I can guess it will take like a 100 lb or more weight suspended on a spring to get a decent signal. I'm talking vertical and not horizontal. Does anyone know how to inject a signal into the ground at 1Hz to test your system ?? If so how to do ? ??geoff?? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 14:14:32 +0000 There must be a convention for creating these designations just like in Fire Control symbology. If you research geophysics and nomenclature or the such possibly you can find the convention for creating these labels in the first place. Just a suggestion. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Thomas Dick" Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:43 AM To: Subject: Re: Pis > Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I > figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? > > John Cole wrote: >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Geoffrey >> *To:* psnlist@.............. >> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pis >> >> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as >> an S wave but that's kind of >> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S >> waves can travel >> through liquids. >> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to >> nothing. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Thomas Dick" > > >> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM >> To: > >> Subject: Pis >> >> > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and >> broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as >> Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for >> a core or mantle reflection? >> __________________________________________________________ >> > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> > >> > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:22:57 -0500 Pis is one of the waveforms labeled by WinQuake. ----- Original Message ----- From: Geoffrey Date: Monday, September 20, 2010 9:14 Subject: Re: Pis To: psnlist@.............. > There must be a convention for creating these designations just like > in Fire Control symbology. If you research geophysics and nomenclature > or the such possibly you can find the convention for creating these > labels in the first place. > > Just a suggestion. > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Thomas Dick" > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:43 AM > To: > Subject: Re: Pis > > > Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this > subject. I > > figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send > something?> > > John Cole wrote: > >> > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > >> *From:* Geoffrey > >> *To:* psnlist@.............. > >> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM > >> *Subject:* Re: Pis > >> > >> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is > reflected as > >> an S wave but that's kind of > >> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and > No S > >> waves can travel > >> through liquids. > >> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it > dampens to > >> nothing. > >> > >> -------------------------------------------------- > >> From: "Thomas Dick" >> > > >> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM > >> To: > > >> Subject: Pis > >> > >> > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the > vertical and > >> broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it > designates as > >> Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old > designation for > >> a core or mantle reflection? > >> __________________________________________________________ > >> > > >> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > >> > > >> > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. > >> with the body of > the message > >> (first line only): unsubscribe > >> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > >> > > >> __________________________________________________________ > >> > >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > >> > >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. > >> with the body of > the message > >> (first line only): unsubscribe > >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > > __________________________________________________________ > > > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > Pis is one of the waveforms labeled by WinQuake=2E=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E= ----- Original Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A Geoffrey =26lt=3Bgmvoeth=40h= otmail=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A Monday=2C September 20=2C 2010 9=3A1= 4=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A Re=3A Pis=3Cbr=3ETo=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3C= br=3E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B There must be a convention for creating these desi= gnations just like=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B in Fire Control symbology=2E If you r= esearch geophysics and nomenclature=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B or the such possibly= you can find the convention for creating these=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B labels i= n the first place=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Just a suggestion=2E= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ---------------------= -----------------------------=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B From=3A =22Thomas Dick=22 = =26lt=3Bdickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Sent=3A M= onday=2C September 20=2C 2010 2=3A43 AM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B To=3A =26lt=3Bps= nlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject=3A Re=3A Pis=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Is there a reference where I can= find a discussion of this =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B subject=2E I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B figured it was some sort of reflected wave=2E John did you sen= d =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B something=3F=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B John C= ole wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B ---------------------------------= -----------------------------=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B ----------=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B=26gt=3B *From=3A* Geoffrey =26lt=3Bgmvoeth=40hotmail=2Ecom=26g= t=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B *To=3A* psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B *Sent=3A* Sat=2C September 18=2C 2010 = 10=3A41=3A22 PM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B *Subject=3A* Re=3A Pis=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B To Me it= is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B refle= cted as =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B an S wave but that=27s kind of= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B ridiculous to think about since the ou= ter core is liquid and =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B No S =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B waves can travel=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B through liquids=2E= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B An S wave in the inner core will go ro= und in there until it =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B dampens to =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt= =3B=26gt=3B nothing=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B = =26gt=3B=26gt=3B --------------------------------------------------=3Cbr= =3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B From=3A =22Thomas Dick=22 =26lt=3Bdickthoma= s01=40insightbb=2Ecom =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B =26lt=3Bmailto=3A= dickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B Sent=3A Monday=2C September 13=2C 2010 12=3A07 AM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B = =26gt=3B=26gt=3B To=3A =26lt=3Bpsnlist=40seismicnet=2Ecom =26lt=3Bmailto= =3Apsnlist=40seismicnet=2Ecom=26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B Subject=3A Pis=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Using Winquake=2C particularly on regional events= =2C the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B vertical and =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B = broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B d= esignates as =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B Pis=2E I can=27t find a r= eference to it=2E Is this some old =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B designation for =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B a core or mantle reflection=3F =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B 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(PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26gt=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2EC= OM with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B the body of the message (first line on= ly)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicne= t=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECO= M with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the body of the message (first line only)=3A uns= ubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2E= html for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject: Re: Pis From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 10:10:55 -0500 Absolutely RIGHT, Winquake does list PIS, but only in the Jefferys Bullen Table (1940). I went to this site: http://www.ucl.ac.uk/es/people/sammonds/3%20Seismic%20Rays%20Earth%20Structure.pdf and only found that the small ( i ) means " Wave reflected at outside boundary of inner core (e.g., PKiKP)." I did not find a direct reference to Pis, but it would seem that it is a P wave reflected off the inner core and concerted to a S wave. WHY it would appear BEFORE the P wave is unknown. Hope this helps someone somewhere............ Jerry
Absolutely RIGHT, Winquake does list PIS, but only in the Jefferys = Bullen=20 Table (1940). 
 
I went to this site:
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/es/people/sammonds/3%20Seismic%20= Rays%20Earth%20Structure.pdf =20
and only found that the small ( i ) means " Wave = reflected at=20 outside boundary of inner core (e.g., PKiKP)."  I did not find a = direct=20 reference to Pis, but it would seem that it is a P wave reflected off = the inner=20 core and concerted to a S wave.
 
WHY it would appear BEFORE the P wave is=20 unknown
 
Hope this helps someone somewhere............
 
Jerry
Subject: Re: Pis From: Chad Trabant chad@................... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 09:51:31 -0700 There is a convention for creating phase designations, the modern = reference is the IASPEI Standard Seismic Phase List: http://www.isc.ac.uk/doc/analysis/2003p13/index.html I can't find it in the list and don't recognize it. Chad On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > There must be a convention for creating these designations just like > in Fire Control symbology. If you research geophysics and nomenclature > or the such possibly you can find the convention for creating these > labels in the first place. >=20 > Just a suggestion. >=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Thomas Dick" > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:43 AM > To: > Subject: Re: Pis >=20 >> Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I = figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? >> John Cole wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> = ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> *From:* Geoffrey >>> *To:* psnlist@.............. >>> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Pis >>>=20 >>> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected = as an S wave but that's kind of >>> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S = waves can travel >>> through liquids. >>> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens = to nothing. >>>=20 >>> -------------------------------------------------- >>> From: "Thomas Dick" > >>> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM >>> To: > >>> Subject: Pis >>>=20 >>> > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and = broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as Pis. = I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for a core = or mantle reflection? = __________________________________________________________ >>> > >>> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> > >>> > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. = with the body of the message = (first line only): unsubscribe >>> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> > >>> __________________________________________________________ >>>=20 >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>>=20 >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. = with the body of the message = (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> __________________________________________________________ >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ >=20 > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >=20 > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body = of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: LISS calibration From: Brett Nordgren brett3nt@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 16:10:15 -0400 Hi All, I recently obtained the calibration for the LISS helicorder displays which are to be found at http://www.liss.org/ From there you can go see US stations on the ANSS or stations world-wide on the GSN. According to Bob Hutt of the USGS/ASL the displays are set up to have a velocity response of 333 nanometers per second per line, with a bandpass from 360 seconds to 20 seconds. That long-period filtering mainly shows surface waves from relatively distant events, pretty much eliminating high frequency local quakes and the higher frequency phases of teleseisms. We have on occasion been able to use the LISS to confirm the existence of events which we had seen but which weren't appearing in the USGS' "Latest Earthquakes" lists. Regards, Brett __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Winquake phase pics for regional events From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 19:11:02 -0400 I recorded a couple of small events the other day, a 2.9 followed shortly by a 2.7, at a distance of around 200 miles. I noticed that when I turn on the P and S phase marker lines in Winquake, they don't line up with the P and S phase markers (ie. the veritical arrows). The amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select, and isn't all that great unless I really zoom in tight. So, two questions. Why the difference? And which should I use to estimate the distance to the event, the arrows or the phase lines? (Not that it really makes much difference, since I usually have a lot of uncertainty where the phase onsets are anyway.) Larry Conklin Liverpool, NY __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake phase pics for regional events From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 18:46:33 -0500 Larry, sitting over here near the New Madrid and Mt Carmel faults I have notice that here too. I learned to use the Regional table and then NOT put too much faith on arrival times. I think I had a multiple comment thread several years ago in which this was discussed in detail. I even uploaded my Winquake file and Univ of Southern Indiana files through Vase as comparision. I even used satellite time. I was told these tables were averages, not written in stone, and variations are to be expected over shorter distances. Larry Conklin wrote: > I recorded a couple of small events the other day, a 2.9 followed > shortly by a 2.7, at a distance of around 200 miles. I noticed that > when I turn on the P and S phase marker lines in Winquake, they don't > line up with the P and S phase markers (ie. the veritical arrows). > The amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select, and isn't > all that great unless I really zoom in tight. > > So, two questions. Why the difference? And which should I use to > estimate the distance to the event, the arrows or the phase lines? > (Not that it really makes much difference, since I usually have a lot > of uncertainty where the phase onsets are anyway.) > > Larry Conklin > Liverpool, NY > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: Geoffrey gmvoeth@........... Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 23:55:22 +0000 Well Then; It does not exist, except like OSCAR or a squeegee sharpener or a mail buoy watch or a sea bat does in the Navy. Some joke by some funny Geophysicist. People do like to have fun at the expense of others. Like using ignorance of others or nievety or innocence or whatever. Such tom foolery can be simple or get quite complex. To the point of causing injury to others. Maybe this was just a joke ?? If it is a serious deadly thing, you got to think like, CIA. -------------------------------------------------- From: "Chad Trabant" Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 4:51 PM To: Subject: Re: Pis > > There is a convention for creating phase designations, the modern reference is the IASPEI Standard Seismic Phase List: > > http://www.isc.ac.uk/doc/analysis/2003p13/index.html > > I can't find it in the list and don't recognize it. > > Chad > > > On Sep 20, 2010, at 7:14 AM, Geoffrey wrote: > >> There must be a convention for creating these designations just like >> in Fire Control symbology. If you research geophysics and nomenclature >> or the such possibly you can find the convention for creating these >> labels in the first place. >> >> Just a suggestion. >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Thomas Dick" >> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 2:43 AM >> To: >> Subject: Re: Pis >> >>> Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you >>> send something? >>> John Cole wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Geoffrey >>>> *To:* psnlist@.............. >>>> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: Pis >>>> >>>> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as an S wave but that's kind of >>>> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S waves can travel >>>> through liquids. >>>> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to nothing. >>>> >>>> -------------------------------------------------- >>>> From: "Thomas Dick" > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM >>>> To: > >>>> Subject: Pis >>>> >>>> > Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it >>>> > designates as Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for a core or mantle reflection? >>>> > __________________________________________________________ >>>> > >>>> > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>>> > >>>> > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message >>>> > (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>>> > >>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>>> >>>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message >>>> (first line only): unsubscribe >>>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake phase pics for regional events From: jonfr@......... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:20:54 -0000 (UTC) Hi Larry, I also got this same problems. But I get thousands of small earthquakes every year and this is same thing with most of them. The misalignment of the P and S wave is something less then a second. But it is still there. I am like looking for a fix, but I don't have it yet. Regards, Jón Frímann. > I recorded a couple of small events the other day, a 2.9 followed > shortly by a 2.7, at a distance of around 200 miles. I noticed that > when I turn on the P and S phase marker lines in Winquake, they don't > line up with the P and S phase markers (ie. the veritical arrows). The > amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select, and isn't all > that great unless I really zoom in tight. > > So, two questions. Why the difference? And which should I use to > estimate the distance to the event, the arrows or the phase lines? (Not > that it really makes much difference, since I usually have a lot of > uncertainty where the phase onsets are anyway.) > > Larry Conklin > Liverpool, NY > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: LISS calibration From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:31:38 +0000 I have seen this for quite some time and agree it's a good idea. You need some instrumentation people look at these and tell the station operators they are in need of servicing their stations or taking them offline. There are some stations which seem to be producing meaningless results swamped with unknown artifacts. Id say if your doing maintenance you take your system offline till it works right. I have found in training most people care nothing about anything but getting a grade. The thought here is just who is operating some of these stations ? I too have used these stations in the past to find possible but unknown signals. Thoughts ? -------------------------------------------------- From: "Brett Nordgren" Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 8:10 PM To: Subject: LISS calibration > Hi All, > > I recently obtained the calibration for the LISS helicorder displays > which are to be found at http://www.liss.org/ From there you can > go see US stations on the ANSS or stations world-wide on the GSN. > > According to Bob Hutt of the USGS/ASL the displays are set up to have > a velocity response of 333 nanometers per second per line, with a > bandpass from 360 seconds to 20 seconds. That long-period filtering > mainly shows surface waves from relatively distant events, pretty > much eliminating high frequency local quakes and the higher frequency > phases of teleseisms. > > We have on occasion been able to use the LISS to confirm the > existence of events which we had seen but which weren't appearing in > the USGS' "Latest Earthquakes" lists. > > Regards, > Brett > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake phase pics for regional events From: "Geoffrey" gmvoeth@........... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 00:38:01 +0000 We are dealing with real life and not the ideal. Random factors should deal the ideals a deadly blow. I would not worry about (as a layman) a difference of a second here and there. But as an expert all of it means something. The USA will dedicate a scientists full time to a given project to understand everything, I'm talking about a real expert who will be protected by real security people. If you want some seemingly good phase guesses try out the USGS Theoretical travel time calculators. It be nice to have that program inside our windows machines so long as we are not breaking any laws to do so. -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:20 AM To: Subject: Re: Winquake phase pics for regional events > Hi Larry, > > I also got this same problems. But I get thousands of small earthquakes > every year and this is same thing with most of them. The misalignment of > the P and S wave is something less then a second. But it is still there. I > am like looking for a fix, but I don't have it yet. > > Regards, > Jón Frímann. > >> I recorded a couple of small events the other day, a 2.9 followed >> shortly by a 2.7, at a distance of around 200 miles. I noticed that >> when I turn on the P and S phase marker lines in Winquake, they don't >> line up with the P and S phase markers (ie. the veritical arrows). The >> amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select, and isn't all >> that great unless I really zoom in tight. >> >> So, two questions. Why the difference? And which should I use to >> estimate the distance to the event, the arrows or the phase lines? (Not >> that it really makes much difference, since I usually have a lot of >> uncertainty where the phase onsets are anyway.) >> >> Larry Conklin >> Liverpool, NY >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with >> the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: LISS calibration From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 19:46:19 -0500 Geof might have a point ... I'm NOT going t o be the one, but someone should maybe say something if the files aren't any good ... a long time ago I was cutting off some waveforms after the LR. I was doing it to cut down the size of my file and didn't think the data was that important from my amateur equipment..it was maybe six weeks before I understood what I was but it halped Geoffrey wrote: > I have seen this for quite some time and agree > it's a good idea. > > You need some instrumentation people look at these and tell > the station operators they are in need of servicing their stations > or taking them offline. > > There are some stations which seem to be producing > meaningless results swamped with unknown artifacts. > > Id say if your doing maintenance you take your system offline > till it works right. > > I have found in training most people care nothing about > anything but getting a grade. The thought here is just who is > operating some of these stations ? > > I too have used these stations in the past to find possible but > unknown signals. > > > Thoughts ? > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Brett Nordgren" > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 8:10 PM > To: > Subject: LISS calibration > >> Hi All, >> >> I recently obtained the calibration for the LISS helicorder displays >> which are to be found at http://www.liss.org/ From there you can >> go see US stations on the ANSS or stations world-wide on the GSN. >> >> According to Bob Hutt of the USGS/ASL the displays are set up to have >> a velocity response of 333 nanometers per second per line, with a >> bandpass from 360 seconds to 20 seconds. That long-period filtering >> mainly shows surface waves from relatively distant events, pretty >> much eliminating high frequency local quakes and the higher frequency >> phases of teleseisms. >> >> We have on occasion been able to use the LISS to confirm the >> existence of events which we had seen but which weren't appearing in >> the USGS' "Latest Earthquakes" lists. >> >> Regards, >> Brett >> >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body >> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:11:01 -0500 I just stumble onto it this summer. We have had many good (as rated by the someone out of Memphis or St. Louis) small quakes in the Guy, Arkansas, Arcadia, Oklahoma to the New Madrid, MO fault area (8 to 2.5 degrees distance). I started noticing this "wave" was identified on WinQuake and seem to be there. Would this really be off the core, mantle or one of those discontinuity "things"? GPayton wrote: > Absolutely RIGHT, Winquake does list PIS, but only in the Jefferys > Bullen Table (1940). > > I went to this site: > http://www.ucl.ac.uk/es/people/sammonds/3%20Seismic%20Rays%20Earth%20Structure.pdf > > and only found that the small ( i ) means " Wave reflected at outside > boundary of inner core (e.g., PKiKP)." I did not find a direct > reference to Pis, but it would seem that it is a P wave reflected off > the inner core and concerted to a S wave. > > *_WHY it would appear BEFORE the P wave is unknown_*. > > Hope this helps someone somewhere............ > > Jerry __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Pis From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 21:09:17 -0500 Steve, Please don't take me wrong -- I am not arguing and I certainly don't have the educational background or equipment of the calibre of most like you and John...this all started with WinQuake. I took the 9/15/10 New Madrid quake of 9:37:17.9@... degrees and 9/19/10 Arcadia-Oklahoma city, OK quake of 22:03:48.6 @... degrees via Vase, I compared them to USIN 30 miles west of me and "something" is there.I even "see" something on the 4.5hz vertical geophone which I rate as low novice quality for the New Madrid as well as Oklahoma quake. Stephen Hammond wrote: > I once asked John Lahr this same question and he told me there was nothing > before the P wave. I asked because I would see something before P in events > that were south of me in Morgan Hill and Gilroy when my station was in South > San Jose. > Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... > On Behalf Of Thomas Dick > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 7:44 PM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: Pis > > Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I > figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? > > John Cole wrote: > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From:* Geoffrey >> *To:* psnlist@.............. >> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pis >> >> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected as >> an S wave but that's kind of >> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S >> waves can travel >> through liquids. >> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to >> nothing. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Thomas Dick" > > >> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM >> To: > >> Subject: Pis >> >> >>> Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and >>> >> broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as >> Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for >> a core or mantle reflection? >> __________________________________________________________ >> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >>> >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >>> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake phase pics for regional events From: Larry Conklin lconklin@............ Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 22:55:52 -0400 Well, I understand that the phase pics that Winquake sets will not always be dead on accurate. My main concern was that Winquake "doesn't quite agree with itself". That is, the lines that can be turned on with the Phases button do not exactly match the positions of the phase picking arrows that can be turned on with the P/S button, and the time differences indicated by the two sets of markers are not quite the same. I have assumed that the distance estimate that Winquake generates is based on the position of the arrows, and that if I want to attempt to identify the P/S onsets manually, it is the arrows I should be using, rather than the phase lines that are controlled by the Phases button. It's all pretty academic anyway, since you really have to expand to a very short time interval to even notice the discrepancy. Larry On 9/20/2010 7:46 PM, Thomas Dick wrote: > Larry, sitting over here near the New Madrid and Mt Carmel faults I > have notice that here too. I learned to use the Regional table and > then NOT put too much faith on arrival times. I think I had a multiple > comment thread several years ago in which this was discussed in > detail. I even uploaded my Winquake file and Univ of Southern Indiana > files through Vase as comparision. I even used satellite time. I was > told these tables were averages, not written in stone, and variations > are to be expected over shorter distances. > > Larry Conklin wrote: >> I recorded a couple of small events the other day, a 2.9 followed >> shortly by a 2.7, at a distance of around 200 miles. I noticed that >> when I turn on the P and S phase marker lines in Winquake, they don't >> line up with the P and S phase markers (ie. the veritical arrows). >> The amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select, and isn't >> all that great unless I really zoom in tight. >> >> So, two questions. Why the difference? And which should I use to >> estimate the distance to the event, the arrows or the phase lines? >> (Not that it really makes much difference, since I usually have a lot >> of uncertainty where the phase onsets are anyway.) >> >> Larry Conklin >> Liverpool, NY >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body >> of the message (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: Winquake phase pics for regional events From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 09:13:13 -0500 Another consideration is the substrate=2E Here I sit on erosional limest= one sediments=2C even some glacial drift and sediments from river deposi= ts from upstream=2E It is more than 100ft to bedrock within 50 mile radi= us of Evansville=2C IN--farther to the west=2E If I remember=2C your are= a is predominately metamorphic=2C more compacted and less overburden The= se differencs in composition affect anticipated speed of travel of earth= quake waves particularly over short distances=2E ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Larry Conklin =3Clconklin=40twcny=2Err=2Ecom=3E Date=3A Monday=2C September 20=2C 2010 21=3A58 Subject=3A Re=3A Winquake phase pics for regional events To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E =A0 Well=2C I understand that the phase pics that Winquake sets = =3E will not = =3E always be dead on accurate=2E=A0 My main concern was that = =3E Winquake =22doesn=27t = =3E quite agree with itself=22=2E=A0 That is=2C the lines that can be = =3E turned on with = =3E the Phases button do not exactly match the positions of the = =3E phase = =3E picking arrows that can be turned on with the P/S button=2C and = =3E the time = =3E differences indicated by the two sets of markers are not quite = =3E the = =3E same=2E=A0 I have assumed that the distance estimate that = =3E Winquake generates = =3E is based on the position of the arrows=2C and that if I want to = =3E attempt to = =3E identify the P/S onsets manually=2C it is the arrows I should be = =3E using=2C = =3E rather than the phase lines that are controlled by the Phases = =3E button=2E=A0 = =3E It=27s all pretty academic anyway=2C since you really have to expand= = =3E to a = =3E very short time interval to even notice the discrepancy=2E =3E = =3E Larry =3E = =3E = =3E On 9/20/2010 7=3A46 PM=2C Thomas Dick wrote=3A =3E =3E Larry=2C sitting over here near the New Madrid and Mt Carmel = =3E faults I = =3E =3E have notice that here too=2E I learned to use the Regional table= = =3E and = =3E =3E then NOT put too much faith on arrival times=2E I think I had a = =3E multiple = =3E =3E comment thread several years ago in which this was discussed = =3E in = =3E =3E detail=2E I even uploaded my Winquake file and Univ of Southern = =3E Indiana = =3E =3E files through Vase as comparision=2E I even used satellite time=2E= = =3E I was = =3E =3E told these tables were averages=2C not written in stone=2C and = =3E variations = =3E =3E are to be expected over shorter distances=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E Larry Conklin wrote=3A =3E =3E=3E=A0 I recorded a couple of small events the other day=2C a = =3E 2=2E9 followed = =3E =3E=3E shortly by a 2=2E7=2C at a distance of around 200 miles=2E=A0= I = =3E noticed that = =3E =3E=3E when I turn on the P and S phase marker lines in Winquake=2C = =3E they don=27t = =3E =3E=3E line up with the P and S phase markers (ie=2E the veritical = =3E arrows)=2E=A0 = =3E =3E=3E The amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select=2C = =3E and isn=27t = =3E =3E=3E all that great unless I really zoom in tight=2E =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E So=2C two questions=2E=A0 Why the difference=3F=A0 And which = =3E should I use to = =3E =3E=3E estimate the distance to the event=2C the arrows or the phase= = =3E lines=3F=A0 = =3E =3E=3E (Not that it really makes much difference=2C since I usually = =3E have a lot = =3E =3E=3E of uncertainty where the phase onsets are anyway=2E) =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E Larry Conklin =3E =3E=3E Liverpool=2C NY =3E =3E=3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM w= ith = =3E the body = =3E =3E=3E of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =3E=3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more = information=2E =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E =3E =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =3E =3E =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =3E =3E =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with= = =3E the body = =3E =3E of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more inf= ormation=2E =3E =3E =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E = =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E = =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with = =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more informa= tion=2E =3E Another consideration is the substrate=2E Here I sit on erosional limest= one sediments=2C even some glacial drift and sediments from river deposi= ts from upstream=2E It is more than 100ft to bedrock within 50 mile radi= us of Evansville=2C IN--farther to the west=2E If I remember=2C your are= a is predominately metamorphic=2C more compacted and less overburden The= se differencs in composition affect anticipated speed of travel of earth= quake waves particularly over short distances=2E=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E----- Or= iginal Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A Larry Conklin =26lt=3Blconklin=40twc= ny=2Err=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A Monday=2C September 20=2C 2010 21=3A= 58=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A Re=3A Winquake phase pics for regional events=3Cbr=3E= To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26nbsp=3B Well= =2C I understand that the phase pics that Winquake sets =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= will not =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B always be dead on accurate=2E=26nbsp=3B My ma= in concern was that =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Winquake =22doesn=27t =3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B quite agree with itself=22=2E=26nbsp=3B That is=2C the lines that ca= n be =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B turned on with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the Phases button = do not exactly match the positions of the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B phase =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B picking arrows that can be turned on with the P/S button=2C and= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the time =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B differences indicated by the= two sets of markers are not quite =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= same=2E=26nbsp=3B I have assumed that the distance estimate that =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B Winquake generates =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B is based on the position of= the arrows=2C and that if I want to =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B attempt to =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B identify the P/S onsets manually=2C it is the arrows I should b= e =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B using=2C =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B rather than the phase lines= that are controlled by the Phases =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B button=2E=26nbsp=3B = =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B It=27s all pretty academic anyway=2C since you really h= ave to expand =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B to a =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B very short time int= erval to even notice the discrepancy=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= Larry=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B On 9/20/2010 7=3A= 46 PM=2C Thomas Dick wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Larry=2C sitting = over here near the New Madrid and Mt Carmel =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B faults I =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B have notice that here too=2E I learned to use the= Regional table =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B and =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B then NOT = put too much faith on arrival times=2E I think I had a =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B = multiple =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B comment thread several years ago in w= hich this was discussed =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B in =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B de= tail=2E I even uploaded my Winquake file and Univ of Southern =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B Indiana =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B files through Vase as comparisio= n=2E I even used satellite time=2E =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B I was =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= =26gt=3B told these tables were averages=2C not written in stone=2C and= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B variations =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B are to be expecte= d over shorter distances=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B Larry Conklin wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26nbsp=3B = I recorded a couple of small events the other day=2C a =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B = 2=2E9 followed =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B shortly by a 2=2E7=2C a= t a distance of around 200 miles=2E=26nbsp=3B I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B noticed= that =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B when I turn on the P and S phase= marker lines in Winquake=2C =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B they don=27t =3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B line up with the P and S phase markers (ie=2E the v= eritical =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B arrows)=2E=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= =26gt=3B The amount of discrepancy depends on which table I select=2C =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B and isn=27t =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B all that gre= at unless I really zoom in tight=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B So=2C two questions=2E=26nbsp=3B Why the d= ifference=3F=26nbsp=3B And which =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B should I use to =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B estimate the distance to the event=2C the arro= ws or the phase =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B lines=3F=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B (Not that it really makes much difference=2C since I usual= ly =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B have a lot =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B of unce= rtainty where the phase onsets are anyway=2E)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B Larry Conklin=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B Liverpool=2C NY=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B To leave this list= email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the body= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B of the message (first line only)=3A u= nsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicne= t=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Public= Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2E= COM with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the body =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B of the mess= age (first line only)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B See http=3A= //www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40= SEISMICNET=2ECOM with =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the body of the message (first li= ne only)=3A unsubscribe=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2E= com/maillist=2Ehtml for more information=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject: RE: Pis From: "Stephen Hammond" shammon1@............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 08:55:32 -0700 Hi Thomas, thanks for the reply. No harm no fault taken. I talked to John some years back when he worked at the USGS site in Palo Alto and the PSN had just been started. It was about 1990-91. I had recorded several event files and in a few had seen a small wave before the arrival of the initial P wave. It was really evident when there was very low background noise. Like your records, most would be seen in events 30 miles or less. At the time, the PSN San Jose station was located in South San Jose a few miles North of the split of the San Andreas and the Calaveras faults. Located in a residential area with deep soils that had once been farm land. Most of the events were South of my location along the SA fault in Morgan Hill and Gilroy area. Just as now, every seismograph I built seemed to have "its own issues" and this was also in a time before any Internet time query sites or GPS's to keep accurate time. So when John told me there was nothing before "P" I figured it was just my equipment. Now that I have moved over to the Coast Range side of the San Andreas and live 6km south of the Loma Prieta epicenter site, I have not noticed them as I did in the old site. I do have a thought. By chance, does your site align along the slip direction of any of these events as mine did? Regards, Steve PSN San Jose, Aptos, CA -----Original Message----- From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Thomas Dick Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 7:09 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: Pis Steve, Please don't take me wrong -- I am not arguing and I certainly don't have the educational background or equipment of the calibre of most like you and John...this all started with WinQuake. I took the 9/15/10 New Madrid quake of 9:37:17.9@... degrees and 9/19/10 Arcadia-Oklahoma city, OK quake of 22:03:48.6 @... degrees via Vase, I compared them to USIN 30 miles west of me and "something" is there.I even "see" something on the 4.5hz vertical geophone which I rate as low novice quality for the New Madrid as well as Oklahoma quake. Stephen Hammond wrote: > I once asked John Lahr this same question and he told me there was > nothing before the P wave. I asked because I would see something > before P in events that were south of me in Morgan Hill and Gilroy > when my station was in South San Jose. Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San > Jose, Aptos, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: psnlist-request@.............. > [mailto:psnlist-request@............... > On Behalf Of Thomas Dick > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2010 7:44 PM > To: psnlist@.............. > Subject: Re: Pis > > Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this subject. I > figured it was some sort of reflected wave. John did you send something? > > John Cole wrote: > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> *From:* Geoffrey >> *To:* psnlist@.............. >> *Sent:* Sat, September 18, 2010 10:41:22 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Pis >> >> To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is reflected >> as >> an S wave but that's kind of >> ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and No S >> waves can travel >> through liquids. >> An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it dampens to >> nothing. >> >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "Thomas Dick" > > >> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 12:07 AM >> To: > >> Subject: Pis >> >> >>> Using Winquake, particularly on regional events, the vertical and >>> >> broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it designates as >> Pis. I can't find a reference to it. Is this some old designation for >> a core or mantle reflection? >> __________________________________________________________ >> >>> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >>> >>> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >>> >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> >>> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >>> >>> >> __________________________________________________________ >> >> Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) >> >> To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. >> with the body of the message >> (first line only): unsubscribe >> See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with > the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: RE: Pis From: THOMAS DICK dickthomas01@............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:53:08 -0500 I don=27t get good copy on weak quakes out there=2E I think it has somet= hing to do with the deep roots to the mountains between here and there=2E= Years ago=2C I also had communications with John (off PSN so that I cou= ld send records/files)=2E It was about two mag 6 quakes reasonably close= together=2E=2E=2Elet=27s say=2C three months=2E I was seeing a step eff= ect in the arrival of the P wave=3B if I remember correctly=2C this step= -effect was over=A0 maybe seconds with distinct P wave periods=2E He dis= missed it=2E And I attributed it to my looking for something that was no= thing and poor detecting equipment=2E I haven=27t seen it since and ther= e haven=27t been many quakes out there (due west) to attract my attentio= n=2E ----- Original Message ----- From=3A Stephen Hammond =3Cshammon1=40ix=2Enetcom=2Ecom=3E Date=3A Tuesday=2C September 21=2C 2010 10=3A55 Subject=3A RE=3A Pis To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E Hi Thomas=2C thanks for the reply=2E No harm no fault taken=2E I = =3E talked to =3E John some years back when he worked at the USGS site in Palo = =3E Alto and =3E the PSN had just been started=2E It was about 1990-91=2E I had recor= ded =3E several event files and in a few had seen a small wave before the =3E arrival of the initial P wave=2E It was really evident when there = =3E was very =3E low background noise=2E Like your records=2C most would be seen in = =3E events 30 =3E miles or less=2E At the time=2C the PSN San Jose station was located= in =3E South San Jose a few miles North of the split of the San Andreas = =3E and the =3E Calaveras faults=2E Located in a residential area with deep soils = =3E that had =3E once been farm land=2E Most of the events were South of my = =3E location along =3E the SA fault in Morgan Hill and Gilroy area=2E Just as now=2C every =3E seismograph I built seemed to have =22its own issues=22 and this was= = =3E also in =3E a time before any Internet time query sites or GPS=27s to keep accur= ate =3E time=2E So when John told me there was nothing before =22P=22 I = =3E figured it was =3E just my equipment=2E Now that I have moved over to the Coast Range = =3E side of =3E the San Andreas and live 6km south of the Loma Prieta epicenter = =3E site=2C I =3E have not noticed them as I did in the old site=2E I do have a = =3E thought=2E By =3E chance=2C does your site align along the slip direction of any of th= ese =3E events as mine did=3F = =3E Regards=2C Steve PSN San Jose=2C Aptos=2C CA =3E = =3E -----Original Message----- =3E From=3A psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E =5Bmailto=3Apsnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=5D On Behalf Of Thoma= s Dick =3E Sent=3A Monday=2C September 20=2C 2010 7=3A09 PM =3E To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E Subject=3A Re=3A Pis =3E = =3E = =3E Steve=2C Please don=27t take me wrong -- I am not arguing and I = =3E certainly = =3E don=27t have the educational background or equipment of the = =3E calibre of = =3E most like you and John=2E=2E=2Ethis all started with WinQuake=2E I t= ook = =3E the = =3E 9/15/10 New Madrid quake of=A0 9=3A37=3A17=2E9=402=2E2 degrees and = =3E 9/19/10 = =3E Arcadia-Oklahoma city=2C OK quake of 22=3A03=3A48=2E6 =408=2E1 degre= es via = =3E Vase=2C I = =3E compared them to USIN 30 miles west of me and =22something=22 is = =3E there=2EI = =3E even =22see=22 something on the 4=2E5hz vertical geophone which I ra= te = =3E as low = =3E novice quality for the New Madrid as well as Oklahoma quake=2E =3E = =3E Stephen Hammond wrote=3A =3E =3E I once asked John Lahr this same question and he told me there = =3E was = =3E =3E nothing before the P wave=2E I asked because I would see = =3E something = =3E =3E before P in events that were south of me in Morgan Hill and = =3E Gilroy = =3E =3E when my station was in South San Jose=2E Regards=2C Steve Hammon= d = =3E PSN San = =3E =3E Jose=2C Aptos=2C CA =3E =3E =3E =3E -----Original Message----- =3E =3E From=3A psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom = =3E =3E =5Bmailto=3Apsnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=5D =3E =3E On Behalf Of Thomas Dick =3E =3E Sent=3A Sunday=2C September 19=2C 2010 7=3A44 PM =3E =3E To=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E =3E Subject=3A Re=3A Pis =3E =3E =3E =3E Is there a reference where I can find a discussion of this = =3E subject=2E I =3E =3E figured it was some sort of reflected wave=2E John did you send =3E something=3F =3E =3E =3E =3E John Cole wrote=3A =3E =3E=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E -------------------------------------------------------------= - =3E ------- =3E =3E=3E --- =3E =3E=3E *From=3A* Geoffrey =3Cgmvoeth=40hotmail=2Ecom=3E =3E =3E=3E *To=3A* psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom =3E =3E=3E *Sent=3A* Sat=2C September 18=2C 2010 10=3A41=3A22 PM =3E =3E=3E *Subject=3A* Re=3A Pis =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E To Me it is a P wave which strikes the Inner Core then is = =3E reflected = =3E =3E=3E as =3E =3E=3E an S wave but that=27s kind of =3E =3E=3E ridiculous to think about since the outer core is liquid and = =3E No S = =3E =3E=3E waves can travel =3E =3E=3E through liquids=2E =3E =3E=3E An S wave in the inner core will go round in there until it d= ampens =3E to = =3E =3E=3E nothing=2E =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E -------------------------------------------------- =3E =3E=3E From=3A =22Thomas Dick=22 =3Cdickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom =3E =3E=3E =3Cmailto=3Adickthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=3E=3E =3E =3E=3E Sent=3A Monday=2C September 13=2C 2010 12=3A07 AM =3E =3E=3E To=3A =3Cpsnlist=40seismicnet=2Ecom =3Cmailto=3Apsnlist=40sei= smicnet=2Ecom=3E=3E =3E =3E=3E Subject=3A Pis =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E=3E Using Winquake=2C particularly on regional events=2C the = =3E vertical and =3E =3E=3E=3E=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P which it = =3E designates as =3E =3E=3E Pis=2E I can=27t find a reference to it=2E Is this some old = =3E designation for =3E = =3E =3E=3E a core or mantle reflection=3F = =3E =3E=3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =3E=3E=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E=3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =3E=3E=3E =3E =3E=3E=3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECO= M =3E =3E=3E=3E=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E =3Cmailto=3APSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM=3E with the bo= dy of = =3E the message =3E =3E=3E (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =3E=3E=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E=3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for mo= re information=2E =3E =3E=3E=3E =3E =3E=3E=3E=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = =3E =3E=3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =3E=3E =3E =3E=3E To leave this list email 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Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E =3E =3E =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with= =3E =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more inf= ormation=2E =3E =3E =3E =3E=A0=A0 = =3E = =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E = =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E = =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with = =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more informa= tion=2E =3E = =3E =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F =3E = =3E Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) =3E = =3E To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM with = =3E the body of the message (first line only)=3A unsubscribe =3E See http=3A//www=2Eseismicnet=2Ecom/maillist=2Ehtml for more informa= tion=2E =3E I don=27t get good copy on weak quakes out there=2E I think it has somet= hing to do with the deep roots to the mountains between here and there=2E= Years ago=2C I also had communications with John (off PSN so that I cou= ld send records/files)=2E It was about two mag 6 quakes reasonably close= together=2E=2E=2Elet=27s say=2C three months=2E I was seeing a step eff= ect in the arrival of the P wave=3B if I remember correctly=2C this step= -effect was over=26nbsp=3B maybe seconds with distinct P wave periods=2E= He dismissed it=2E And I attributed it to my looking for something that= was nothing and poor detecting equipment=2E I haven=27t seen it since a= nd there haven=27t been many quakes out there (due west) to attract my a= ttention=2E=3Cbr=3E=3Cbr=3E----- Original Message -----=3Cbr=3EFrom=3A S= tephen Hammond =26lt=3Bshammon1=40ix=2Enetcom=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3EDate=3A= Tuesday=2C September 21=2C 2010 10=3A55=3Cbr=3ESubject=3A RE=3A Pis=3Cb= r=3ETo=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Hi Thomas=2C thanks= for the reply=2E No harm no fault taken=2E I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B talked to= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B John some years back when he worked at the USGS site in= Palo =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Alto and=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the PSN had just been st= arted=2E It was about 1990-91=2E I had recorded=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B several = event files and in a few had seen a small wave before the=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= arrival of the initial P wave=2E It was really evident when there =3Cbr= =3E=26gt=3B was very=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B low background noise=2E Like your r= ecords=2C most would be seen in =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B events 30=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= miles or less=2E At the time=2C the PSN San Jose station was located in= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B South San Jose a few miles North of the split of the Sa= n Andreas =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B and the=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Calaveras faults=2E L= ocated in a residential area with deep soils =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B that had=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B once been farm land=2E Most of the events were South of my= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B location along=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the SA fault in Morgan = Hill and Gilroy area=2E Just as now=2C every=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B seismograph= I built seemed to have =22its own issues=22 and this was =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= also in=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B a time before any Internet time query sites or = GPS=27s to keep accurate=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B time=2E So when John told me th= ere was nothing before =22P=22 I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B figured it was=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B just my equipment=2E Now that I have moved over to the Coast Ra= nge =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B side of=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the San Andreas and live 6k= m south of the Loma Prieta epicenter =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B site=2C I=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B have not noticed them as I did in the old site=2E I do have a =3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B thought=2E By=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B chance=2C does your site alig= n along the slip direction of any of these=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B events as min= e did=3F =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Regards=2C Steve PSN San Jose=2C Aptos=2C CA=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B -----Original Message-----=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= From=3A psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =5Bmailto=3A= psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=5D On Behalf Of Thomas Dick=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B Sent=3A Monday=2C September 20=2C 2010 7=3A09 PM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B T= o=3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Subject=3A Re=3A Pis=3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Steve=2C Please don=27t t= ake me wrong -- I am not arguing and I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B certainly =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B don=27t have the educational background or equipment of the =3C= br=3E=26gt=3B calibre of =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B most like you and John=2E=2E=2E= this all started with WinQuake=2E I took =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B the =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B 9/15/10 New Madrid quake of=26nbsp=3B 9=3A37=3A17=2E9=402=2E2 degr= ees and =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B 9/19/10 =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Arcadia-Oklahoma city=2C= OK quake of 22=3A03=3A48=2E6 =408=2E1 degrees via =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Vase= =2C I =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B compared them to USIN 30 miles west of me and =22= something=22 is =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B there=2EI =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B even =22see=22= something on the 4=2E5hz vertical geophone which I rate =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B= as low =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B novice quality for the New Madrid as well as Ok= lahoma quake=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Stephen Hammond wrote=3A= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B I once asked John Lahr this same question and = he told me there =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B was =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B nothing = before the P wave=2E I asked because I would see =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B someth= ing =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B before P in events that were south of me i= n Morgan Hill and =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B Gilroy =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B when= my station was in South San Jose=2E Regards=2C Steve Hammond =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B PSN San =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Jose=2C Aptos=2C CA=3Cbr=3E=26gt= =3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B -----Original Message-----=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B From=3A psnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom =3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26gt=3B =5Bmailto=3Apsnlist-request=40webtronics=2Ecom=5D=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B On Behalf Of Thomas Dick=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Sent= =3A Sunday=2C September 19=2C 2010 7=3A44 PM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B To= =3A psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Subject=3A Re=3A= Pis=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B Is there a refere= nce where I can find a discussion of this =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B subject=2E I=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B figured it was some sort of reflected wave=2E Joh= n did you send=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B something=3F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=3Cb= r=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B John Cole wrote=3A=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26nbsp= =3B=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B ------------------------= --------------------------------------=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B -------=3Cbr=3E=26= gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B ---=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B *From=3A* Ge= offrey =26lt=3Bgmvoeth=40hotmail=2Ecom=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B *To=3A* psnlist=40webtronics=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B= *Sent=3A* Sat=2C September 18=2C 2010 10=3A41=3A22 PM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B *Subject=3A* Re=3A Pis=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3C= br=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B To Me it is a P wave which strikes the In= ner Core then is =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B reflected =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B as=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B an S wave but that=27s kind of= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B ridiculous to think about since the ou= ter core is liquid and =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B No S =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26= gt=3B waves can travel=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B through liquids=2E= =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B An S wave in the inner core will go ro= und in there until it dampens=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B to =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B= =26gt=3B nothing=2E=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B --------------------------------------------------=3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B From=3A =22Thomas Dick=22 =26lt=3Bdickthomas01= =40insightbb=2Ecom=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B =26lt=3Bmailto=3Adic= kthomas01=40insightbb=2Ecom=26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26g= t=3B Sent=3A Monday=2C September 13=2C 2010 12=3A07 AM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B To=3A =26lt=3Bpsnlist=40seismicnet=2Ecom =26lt=3Bmailto=3A= psnlist=40seismicnet=2Ecom=26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt= =3B Subject=3A Pis=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26g= t=3B=26gt=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26= gt=3B=26gt=3B=26gt=3B Using Winquake=2C particularly on regional events=2C= the =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B vertical and=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26gt= =3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E= =26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B broadside Lehman show a peak well ahead of P w= hich it =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B designates as=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B = Pis=2E I can=27t find a reference to it=2E Is this some old =3Cbr=3E=26g= t=3B designation for=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B a= core or mantle reflection=3F =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B =5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B= =26nbsp=3B=26nbsp=3B =3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26gt=3B Public Se= ismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST)=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26= gt=3B=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26gt=3B To leave this list email = PSNLIST-REQUEST=40SEISMICNET=2ECOM=3Cbr=3E=26gt=3B =26gt=3B=26gt=3B=26gt= 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Subject: Re: PIS From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 12:53:58 -0500 I have been looking at my WinQuake and the tables directory. I do not see a table for PiS. In Phase Control I have a P-(IASP91) available. When I select this it gave a marker for P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P on the data I had loaded. Is it possible there are different versions of the WinQuake tables in some systems? It would not be unusual for the IASP table to not match a JB table and the two should probably not be displayed on the same record. I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the record. The table files are mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998. Randy

I have been looking at my WinQuake and the tables directory.  I do not see a table for PiS.  In Phase Control I = have a P-(IASP91) available.  When I select this it gave a marker for = P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P on the data I had loaded.  Is it possible there = are different versions of the WinQuake tables in some systems?  It = would not be unusual for the IASP table to not match a JB table and the two should = probably not be displayed on the same record.  I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the = record.  The table files are mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998. =

 

Randy

Subject: Re: PIS From: "GPayton" gpayton@............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 13:03:44 -0500 Yep, it seems that you DO have an older version of WinQuake. I have version 3.1.4b issued 3/12/2009. Pis.jb is in my TABLES folder: C:\Program Files\WinQuake\Tables Regards, Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: Randall Pratt To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2010 12:53 PM Subject: Re: PIS I have been looking at my WinQuake and the tables directory. I do not see a table for PiS. In Phase Control I have a P-(IASP91) available. When I select this it gave a marker for P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P on the data I had loaded. Is it possible there are different versions of the WinQuake tables in some systems? It would not be unusual for the IASP table to not match a JB table and the two should probably not be displayed on the same record. I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the record. The table files are mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998. Randy
Yep, it seems that you DO have an older version of WinQuake.  = I have=20 version 3.1.4b issued 3/12/2009.  Pis.jb is in my TABLES = folder: =20 C:\Program Files\WinQuake\Tables
Regards,
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Randall=20 Pratt
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, = 2010 12:53=20 PM
Subject: Re: PIS

I have been looking at = my WinQuake=20 and the tables directory.  I do not see a table for PiS.  In = Phase=20 Control I have a P-(IASP91) available.  When I select this it = gave a=20 marker for P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P on the data I had = loaded.  Is=20 it possible there are different versions of the WinQuake tables in = some=20 systems?  It would not be unusual for the IASP table to not match = a JB=20 table and the two should probably not be displayed on the same = record.  I=20 have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the record.  The table files are mostly = from 1995=20 but the PI91 file is dated 1998.

 

Randy=20

Subject: Re: PIS From: Bob McClure bobmcclure90@......... Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 16:59:12 -0400 The phases Pis and Sis were more recent additions to the tables folder. I am wondering if they are for real. They are not formatted correctly, and I find that the arrival times are independent of event depth. I have never before found a listed phase which has no dependence on depth. Their distance range is short, only 1.11 degrees. Unless somebody can tell us more about these phases, do not add them to your phase list. Bob P.S. By the way, the JB files in the Tables folder are in text format, and can be opened and inspected using NotePad. You can plot them by downloading my TravelTime.exe program, at http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/traveltime On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Randall Pratt wrote: > I have been looking at my WinQuake and the tables directory. I do not > see a table for PiS. In Phase Control I have a P-(IASP91) available. When > I select this it gave a marker for P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P on the > data I had loaded. Is it possible there are different versions of the > WinQuake tables in some systems? It would not be unusual for the IASP table > to not match a JB table and the two should probably not be displayed on the > same record. I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the record. The table files are > mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998. > > > > Randy > The phases Pis and Sis were more recent additions to the tables folder. I a= m wondering if they are for real. They are not formatted correctly, and I f= ind that the arrival times are independent of event depth. I have never bef= ore found a listed phase which has no dependence on depth. Their distance r= ange is short, only 1.11 degrees. Unless somebody can tell us more about th= ese phases, do not add them to your phase list.

Bob

P.S.=A0 By the way, the JB files in the Tables folder are in= text format, and can be opened and inspected using NotePad. You can plot t= hem by downloading my TravelTime.exe program, at http://sites.google.com/site/bobmccl= ure90/traveltime

On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Randall Pra= tt <rpratt@mit= ..midco.net> wrote:

I have been looking at my WinQuake and the= tables directory.=A0 I do not see a table for PiS.=A0 In Phase Control I have a P-(IASP91) available.=A0 When I select this it gave a marker for P(I91) nea= rly 2 seconds before P on the data I had loaded.=A0 Is it possible there are different versions of the WinQuake tables in some systems?=A0 It would not be unusual for the IASP table to not match a JB table and the two should pr= obably not be displayed on the same record.=A0 I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the recor= d.=A0 The table files are mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998.

=A0

Randy


Subject: Re: Pis From: "Randall Pratt" rpratt@............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:48:58 -0500 I have also found this information possibly related to the question in New Zealand Journal of Geology and Geophysics. "For a focus at the surface, the Jeffreys-Bullen tables demand an origin time some three seconds earlier: and one or two seconds earlier for a focus near the base of the granitic layer. I also found a reference to PIS involving a slab-mantle-interface reflection with slab-face P-reflection velocity contrast upwards to 10 percent. This appears to pertain to the Japanese subduction zone. Both of these require purchase of documents so I can not get more detail. Perhaps they will give a clue to the questioned phase. Randy

I have also found this information possibly related = to the question in New Zealand Journal of Geology and Geophysics.  = “For a focus at the surface, the Jeffreys-Bullen tables demand an origin time = some three seconds earlier: and one or two seconds earlier for a focus near = the base of the granitic layer.

 

I also found a reference to PIS involving a = slab-mantle-interface reflection with slab-face P-reflection velocity contrast upwards to 10 = percent.  This appears to pertain to the Japanese subduction zone. =

 

Both of these require purchase of documents so I can = not get more detail.  Perhaps they will give a clue to the questioned = phase. 

 

Randy

Subject: Re: PIS From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 18:08:42 -0700 All, I know what these files ( P_is.jb and S_is.jb ) are, Jón Frímann created them based on a local Iceland travel-time model he found. Sorry it took so long to chime in. The "recent additions to the tables folder" rang a bell so I look at the file dates and then remembered Jón created these files for his location. Regards, Larry Cochrane Webtronics On 9/21/2010 1:59 PM, Bob McClure wrote: > The phases Pis and Sis were more recent additions to the tables folder. I am > wondering if they are for real. They are not formatted correctly, and I find > that the arrival times are independent of event depth. I have never before > found a listed phase which has no dependence on depth. Their distance range > is short, only 1.11 degrees. Unless somebody can tell us more about these > phases, do not add them to your phase list. > > Bob > > P.S. By the way, the JB files in the Tables folder are in text format, and > can be opened and inspected using NotePad. You can plot them by downloading > my TravelTime.exe program, at > http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/traveltime > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Randall Pratt wrote: > >> I have been looking at my WinQuake and the tables directory. I do not >> see a table for PiS. In Phase Control I have a P-(IASP91) available. When >> I select this it gave a marker for P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P on the >> data I had loaded. Is it possible there are different versions of the >> WinQuake tables in some systems? It would not be unusual for the IASP table >> to not match a JB table and the two should probably not be displayed on the >> same record. I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the record. The table files are >> mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998. >> >> >> >> Randy >> > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: PIS From: Thomas Dick dickthomas01@............. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 03:19:03 -0500 OK Larry, but are they an accepted wave form? Is their use strictly for regional events? Bob said they don't have a depth variable? What basis is there for inclusion? Larry Cochrane wrote: > All, > > I know what these files ( P_is.jb and S_is.jb ) are, Jón Frímann > created them based on a local Iceland travel-time model he found. > Sorry it took so long to chime in. The "recent additions to the tables > folder" rang a bell so I look at the file dates and then remembered > Jón created these files for his location. > > Regards, > Larry Cochrane > Webtronics > > On 9/21/2010 1:59 PM, Bob McClure wrote: >> The phases Pis and Sis were more recent additions to the tables >> folder. I am >> wondering if they are for real. They are not formatted correctly, and >> I find >> that the arrival times are independent of event depth. I have never >> before >> found a listed phase which has no dependence on depth. Their distance >> range >> is short, only 1.11 degrees. Unless somebody can tell us more about >> these >> phases, do not add them to your phase list. >> >> Bob >> >> P.S. By the way, the JB files in the Tables folder are in text >> format, and >> can be opened and inspected using NotePad. You can plot them by >> downloading >> my TravelTime.exe program, at >> http://sites.google.com/site/bobmcclure90/traveltime >> >> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Randall Pratt >> wrote: >> >>> I have been looking at my WinQuake and the tables directory. I do >>> not >>> see a table for PiS. In Phase Control I have a P-(IASP91) >>> available. When >>> I select this it gave a marker for P(I91) nearly 2 seconds before P >>> on the >>> data I had loaded. Is it possible there are different versions of the >>> WinQuake tables in some systems? It would not be unusual for the >>> IASP table >>> to not match a JB table and the two should probably not be >>> displayed on the >>> same record. I have WinQuake 2.9.8 for the record. The table >>> files are >>> mostly from 1995 but the PI91 file is dated 1998. >>> >>> >>> >>> Randy >>> >> > __________________________________________________________ > > Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) > > To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body > of the message (first line only): unsubscribe > See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. > __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: Re: PIS From: Larry Cochrane lcochrane@.............. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 02:01:41 -0700 None, I removed them from my WinQuake build directory so they will not show up on any new versions of the program. -Larry On 9/22/2010 1:19 AM, Thomas Dick wrote: > OK Larry, but are they an accepted wave form? Is their use strictly for > regional events? Bob said they don't have a depth variable? What basis > is there for inclusion? __________________________________________________________ Public Seismic Network Mailing List (PSNLIST) To leave this list email PSNLIST-REQUEST@.............. with the body of the message (first line only): unsubscribe See http://www.seismicnet.com/maillist.html for more information. Subject: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 15:05:19 -0700 Hi All, All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR now. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Hi All,

All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log = file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to = another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes = white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new = copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR = now.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655<= /span>

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com &nbs= p; Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com =

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home<= /a>    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: Re: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile From: Barry Lotz barry_lotz@............. Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 17:37:07 -0700 (PDT) Hi Gary I don't know if this is the same symptom as you were describing but I have had GIF problems in the past when I was asking my computer to do to much at once. I was recording 8 channels @ 50 hz. I could only create GIF files for 12 hrs on 2 channels. Anything more than that and I would get a GIF error message. I don't remember the exact text. The GIF displays would have the wrong times or dates. The way I got this corrected for me was to stop winsdr and restart it, This seemed to correct my problem Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com ________________________________ From: Gary Lindgren To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 3:05:19 PM Subject: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile Hi All, All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR now. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer
Hi Gary
I don't know if this is the same symptom as you were describing but I have had GIF problems in the past when I was asking my computer to do to much at once. I was recording 8 channels @ 50 hz. I could only create GIF files for 12 hrs on 2 channels. Anything more than that and I would get a GIF error message. I don't remember the  exact text. The GIF displays would have the wrong times or dates. The way I got this corrected for me was to stop winsdr and restart it, This seemed to correct my problem
 
Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com



From: Gary Lindgren <gel@.................>
To: psnlist@..............
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 3:05:19 PM
Subject: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile

Hi All,

All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR now.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com   Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: RE: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile From: "Gary Lindgren" gel@................. Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 18:24:08 -0700 Hi Barry, I think it is starting to self correct. I can at least display 4 channels over 8 hours. Maybe tomorrow I can display one channel over 24 hours. I was able to get rid of some trash at the bottom of the GIF display. Gary From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Barry Lotz Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:37 PM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: Re: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile Hi Gary I don't know if this is the same symptom as you were describing but I have had GIF problems in the past when I was asking my computer to do to much at once. I was recording 8 channels @ 50 hz. I could only create GIF files for 12 hrs on 2 channels. Anything more than that and I would get a GIF error message. I don't remember the exact text. The GIF displays would have the wrong times or dates. The way I got this corrected for me was to stop winsdr and restart it, This seemed to correct my problem Regards Barry http://www.seismicvault.com _____ From: Gary Lindgren To: psnlist@.............. Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 3:05:19 PM Subject: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile Hi All, All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR now. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Hi Barry,

I think it is starting to self correct. I can at least display 4 channels = over 8 hours. Maybe tomorrow I can display one channel over 24 hours. I was = able to get rid of some trash at the bottom of the GIF = display.

Gary

 

 

 

 

From:= = psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Barry = Lotz
Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 5:37 PM
To: psnlist@..............
Subject: Re: GIF End Flag Error in = dspHistFile

 

Hi Gary
I don't know if this is the same symptom as you were describing but I = have had GIF problems in the past when I was asking my computer to do to much at = once. I was recording 8 channels @ 50 hz. I could only create GIF files for 12 = hrs on 2 channels. Anything more than that and I would get a GIF error message. I = don't remember the  exact text. The GIF displays would have the wrong = times or dates. The way I got this corrected for me was to stop winsdr and restart it, This seemed to correct my problem

 

Regards
Barry
http://www.seismicvault.com

 

 


From: Gary Lindgren = <gel@.................>
To: psnlist@..............
Sent: Wed, September 29, 2010 3:05:19 PM
Subject: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile

Hi All,

All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log = file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to = another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes = white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new = copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR = now.

Gary

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln Ave

Palo Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655

 

www.blue-eagle-technologies.com   Check out Lastest Seismometer = Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home &= nbsp;  Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

 

 

Subject: RE: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile From: "Dale Hardy" dale@........... Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:40:32 +1000 Hi Gary Have found that by deleting the last seisdata.xxx file and restarting WinSDR your trace will revert to normal, although you will loose that period of data. Regards Dale _____ From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... On Behalf Of Gary Lindgren Sent: Thursday, 30 September 2010 8:05 AM To: psnlist@.............. Subject: GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile Hi All, All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log file that I have a GIF End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to another I first see the 24 hours of data displayed momentarily then screen goes white and only displays the data that is then recorded. Just like I have a new copy of WinSDR. Is there any way to correct this. I can't use WinSDR now. Gary Gary Lindgren 585 Lincoln Ave Palo Alto CA 94301 650-326-0655 www.blue-eagle-technologies.com Check out Lastest Seismometer Reading cymonsplace.blogspot.com sites.google.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer

Hi = Gary

 

Have found that by deleting the = last seisdata.xxx file and restarting WinSDR your trace will revert to = normal, although you will loose that period of = data.

 

Regards

=

Dale

 


From: psnlist-request@.............. [mailto:psnlist-request@............... = On Behalf Of Gary Lindgren
Sent: Thursday, 30 = September 2010 8:05 AM
To: = psnlist@..............
Subject: GIF End Flag = Error in dspHistFile

 

Hi All,

All of a sudden this AM I noticed in the WinSDR log file that I have a GIF = End Flag Error in dspHistFile. The data is not being displayed correctly. = Whenever I change the Channel from one channel to another I first see the 24 hours = of data displayed momentarily then screen goes white and only displays the data = that is then recorded. Just like I have a new copy of WinSDR. Is there any way = to correct this. I can't use WinSDR now.

Gary=

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

Gary Lindgren

585 Lincoln = Ave

Palo = Alto CA 94301

 

650-326-0655

 

www.blue-eagle-technolog= ies.com   Check out Lastest = Seismometer Reading

cymonsplace.blogspot.com 

sites.googl= e.com/site/seismicsensorinfo/Home    Design Details for New Vertical Seismometer =