Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 02:26:21 -0600 From: rond@................ (Charlie Rond) Subject: RE: New Memphis Web Home Page Edward, >I was real impressed with your poem and if the home page is half as good >as that, it will be great! Tell you when I check it out. Thanks for the compliment! It still needs a lot of work, but that's the case with most of the things we do. Appreciate your taking a look at it...I never forget that you and Steve Hammond are to thank for getting the rest of us going. --Charlie Rond -\/\--Public Seismic Network-Memphis rond@................ (901) 360-0302 [ free BBS ] Date: Sun, 31 Mar 1996 02:31:03 -0600 From: rond@................ (Charlie Rond) Subject: RE: New Memphis Web Home Page Ken, >On Sat, 30 Mar 1996 Ed Cranswick commented... > >> Charlie- >> I was real impressed with your poem and if the home page is half as good >> as that, it will be great! Tell you when I check it out. > >Edward, you won't be disappointed! Charlie did a really good job on this one. And thanks to you also, Ken. Wish I could join you guys for your meeting. Maybe that will work out some time. >For those of you outside Calif. The Mammoth Lakes Caldera is rumbling >again. Getting some nice seismograms from the telemetry here in the S.F. Bay >Area. > >Hummmm, Larry. Maybe we should plan the next PSN meeting at the Mammoth >Lakes Ranger Station just a few kms from "ground zero". It'd give us some >new topics for discussion :) > >Last Time I was over that way I mentioned the possibility of setting up a >PSN system for a lobby display to the rangers. They were interested. >Maybe we should pursue this for folks stoppingby over there... That would be a real crowd gatherer! --Charlie Rond -\/\--Public Seismic Network-Memphis rond@................ (901) 360-0302 [ free BBS ] Reply-To: Public Seismic Network Date: Thu, 4 Apr 1996 10:32:17 -0700 (MST) From: CRANSWICK@.................. Subject: PSN in Russia: Correspondence with Charley Rond and Alexei Malovichko Charley- The PSN station at Borok that Ted Blank and my mother-in-law, Dr. Tanya Pliasova-Bakounina, worked to set up has never become functional apparently. However, I received the following message from a group that Tanya communicated with two years ago. I figured I would eliminate the middle man and send you the message directly. In my reply to Alexei Malovichko thanking him for this information, I will send him the PSN website URLs. You may want to contact him yourself directly. I am impressed by how you have kept PSN/Memphis progressing. -Edward From: SMTP%"mal@............" 4-APR-1996 07:28:18.89 To: CRANSWICK CC: Subj: Re: from Ural To: cranswick@.................. Message-Id: Organization: Mining Institute From: mal Date: Thu, 4 Apr 96 19:17:34 +0500 X-Mailer: BML [MS/DOS Beauty Mail v.1.36] Subject: Re: from Ural Lines: 24 >>From mal Thu Apr 4 19:16:38 MSK 1996 Dear Dr. E. Cranswick Thank you for your message. I am sorry for the interruption in our E-mail contacts. But last year was very hard for us (institute of Russian Academy of sciences) from different points of view (first - cuts of our budget, second - long seismic monitoring field). Now we adaptated to new conditions. PSN seismic station in Ural is exist. It operates in Perm in Mining institute. We use simple scheme: Russian seismometer SM-3KV, ADC board and PC computer. Mining institute is situated in very center of Perm. So we have high level of industrial (traffic) noise. For normal work we use low frequency range and sample interval 1/9 sec. These allow records large remote earthquakes (8.10.95 in Mexico, 3.12.95 near Kuril Islands) and small local events. Students of Perm state University take active part in this work. It's brief information about status of the our PSN group. Now we are ready to continue our activity in realizing common project. If you need more details, I'm ready to answer all your questions. Best wishes Alexei Malovichko Date: Sun, 07 Apr 96 17:05:13 PDT From: "Andrew Bulman-Fleming" Subject: Request for information on seismograph measurements... Hello. My name is Andy Bulman-Fleming, and I am helping to write a calculus textbook. For the beginning of the book, we are going to include a sample of graphical output from a seismograph, as an example of a naturally-occuring function which it is natural to interpret graphically. However, I am not sure exactly what the quantities are that seismographs measure. In the graphs I have downloaded from the PSN, there are numbers on the vertical axis, but no units. From other sources, I have found the vertical axis labeled "counts," or hundreds thereof. Could someone please straighten me out on this, and perhaps point me to a place on the net where I could find good seismograph output from famous earthquakes? My email address is Andrew_Bulman-Fleming@.............. Thank you, Andy Subject: Good Location Date: Fri, 12 Apr 96 10:07:00 PDT Response to: andrew_bulman_fleming@..............." Please check this one out: http://www.comet.net/earthquake/index1.htm hth ajacob@......... Date: Fri, 12 Apr 1996 16:51:35 -0500 From: Mark Mansfield Organization: Univ. of Tenn at Martin Subject: New to group. Hello, My name is Mark and I'm interested in monitoring ELF, VLF natural emissions. I'm a Broadcasting Engineer with the Univ. of Tenn at Martin by trade, I enjoy VLF and LF monitoring as a hobby. I would like to construct a large air core coil and associated electronics. I would like to exchange email with anyone who has built the coil or amps/filters. If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, I sure do need them. I would like to monitor for precursors, schumann resonance and harmonics associated with it, and maybe look for the Taos hum. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions such as coil size, experiences, filter arangements, etc...? Thanks in advance! Mark Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 19:35:57 -0500 From: Mark Mansfield Organization: Univ. of Tenn at Martin Subject: Detecting Natural Electromagnetic Waves I just received the May 96 issue of Scientific American magizane. In the "Amatuer Scientist" section, there are plans for a low frequency detector which is a coil of wire wound on a 1/2 inch dia. by 2 feet long metal rod. It says you will need at least 50,000 turns. This brings up a question I have on coils for ELF, VLF coils. Does the diameter of the coil play a large role in how sensitive it will be, keeping the wire's length the same in both coils? I would like to start collecting what I'll need for the coil form, as I already have the wire (several large spools of 23 ga. enamel). Thanks, Mark Date: Sat, 13 Apr 1996 19:19:24 -0700 (PDT) From: David Josephson Subject: Re: Detecting Natural Electromagnetic Waves On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Mark Mansfield wrote: > I just received the May 96 issue of Scientific American magizane. > In the "Amatuer Scientist" section, there are plans for a low frequency > detector which is a coil of wire wound on a 1/2 inch dia. by 2 feet long > metal rod. It says you will need at least 50,000 turns. This brings up > a question I have on coils for ELF, VLF coils. Does the diameter of the > coil play a large role in how sensitive it will be, keeping the wire's > length the same in both coils? I would like to start collecting what > I'll need for the coil form, as I already have the wire (several large > spools of 23 ga. enamel). This isn't strictly seismic (my geophysicist friends tend to roll their eyes if I mention electromagnetic signals associated with earthquakes) but so long as nobody minds... Signal strength from a coil pickup goes with the number of turns and the area (of the average turn) squared. It isn't so simple as increasing the signal though, because with increasing length of wire in the coil, the coil's resistance goes up and that resistance generates noise. There are generally two types of coils used to monitor magnetotelluric signals: air core and permeable core. I worked out that the optimum size for an air core coil made with 30 gauge wire, 1 meter in diameter, was about 1200 turns. Permeable core coils have some advantages (mainly, they are smaller and less likely to flop around, which is another cause of noise). Soft iron such as re-bar is a good core material; mu-metal or some other highly permeable alloy is better. If you are interested in a narrow band of frequencies, you can resonate the inductance of the coil with a capacitor, which will act as a bandpass filter cutting out a lot of the signal and noise except in your band of interest. Good luck, post when you hear something! Date: Sun, 14 Apr 1996 16:31:58 -0700 From: shansen@........ (shansen) Subject: Re: Detecting Natural Electromagnetic Waves On Sat, 13 Apr 1996, Mark Mansfield wrote: > I just received the May 96 issue of Scientific American magizane. > In the "Amatuer Scientist" section, there are plans for a low frequency > detector which is a coil of wire wound on a 1/2 inch dia. by 2 feet long > metal rod. It says you will need at least 50,000 turns. This brings up > a question I have on coils for ELF, VLF coils. Does the diameter of the > coil play a large role in how sensitive it will be, keeping the wire's > length the same in both coils? I would like to start collecting what > I'll need for the coil form, as I already have the wire (several large > spools of 23 ga. enamel). First off, I'm new to this group. By way of introduction, I've had a long standing interest in the monitoring of natural processes, particularly solar (I am part of a network that monitors solar flares via VLF signal enhancement) and VLF triggered emissions (such as whistlers, chorus, etc.). Amateur seismology has always intriqued me but, other than reading and hanging onto the various articles in the old Scientific American Amateur Scientist column, I have done nothing with it. Finding this group has gotten me off the dime and I now have your software, a 711S board, and the beginnings of a Lehman seismometer. That being said, Mark Mansfield might check into a few good resources on VLF and naturally occurring radio. Since this is off-topic, I'll keep it brief. First is the NASA INSPIRE project which encourages amateur and student participation in projects related to VLF monitoring. They have hardware kits and audio analysis software. Info may be obtained at http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/education/inspire/inspire_home.html The Dept of Commerce produced a couple of monographs on induction loop antennas and geomagnetic observing instruments. These should be obtainable from the Earth Sciences Laboratory in Boulder or thru reprint services such as UMI. First is "Induction Loop Antennas for Geomagnetic Field Variation Measurements" by Wallace Campbell. (ESSA ERL 123-ESL 6). Second is "An Introduction to Geomagnetic Instruments and Observing" by Wallace Campbell (ERL 183-ESL 12). These date from 1969 and 1970 respectively and have good biblios (at least up to those dates). I haven't seen the new Amateur Scientist article yet but there are a lot of niceties in the design of these loops. E-field antennas are an alternative that should also be considered. Steve Hansen Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 1 May 1996 17:33:47 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960502002953.002f3c30@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 17:29:53 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: Re: building a seismograph X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi, I received this today, anyone else have an idea for Willowb? Please send mail directly to Willowb496@....... since they are not on the list. We had two small quakes today both around 3.5 and within 4 minutes of each other with a small 2.7 in between. The events where 85km from me, and I didn't feel a thing. Seismograms from all of my channels are available on my system. I also recorded the 7.5 in the Soloman Islands the other day. If anyone else recorded any events please share them with us. Upload them using anonymous FTP to psn.quake.net. Place them in the /incoming directory. Regards, Larry Cochrane Message from Willowb495@........ I read your page on how to make a seismogrph and I have some questions. I am 15 years old and I need to build a seismograph for school. It has to work but not electronically-it just has to record something if say the table it is on is shaken-do you know how I could build an easy non electronical but working seismograph? Your input would be wonderful! I f you could respond anytime soon that would be great because it is due at school very soon! Thanks for all your help!!! Sincerly, Willowb495@....... >Date: Wed, 01 May 1996 17:11:17 -0700 >To: Willowb496@....... >From: Larry Cochrane >Subject: Re: building a seismograph:please respond by the 5/3 or 5/4 > >Hi, > >I'll send your message out on the psn mailing list. It has around 144 members and someone may have a better idea. > >You could hang a pen or pencil from the ceiling and place a piece of paper on >the table under the pen. Adjust the line so the pen just touches the paper. >Add some weight to the pen so it will stay still when you move the table. > >Good luck on your project. > >Regards, >Larry Cochrane >Public Seismic Network > . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 2 May 1996 00:48:42 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 02 May 1996 19:48:44 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: intro and solomon eq X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Hi all, although I have conversed with some of you individually this if the first time with a general broadcast. I am a second year parttime adult student studying for a BSc in geology at the Univ. of Otago in Dunedin, NZ. I am a self employed electronics tech. running a servicing business for a home based workshop mainly doing tv,vcr,sound and computer work. I am also an active amateur radio operator using freq's from 50-1296MHz My forray into seismology started some 20yrs ago (1974) when a M5.2 quake some 5km from Dunedin caused a fair bit of mild panic and some minor building damage. From that time on I was hooked and the last 20 yrs has been filled with reading studying and compiling lists of worldwide seismology. 2 yrs ago Apr '94 I finally got my own seismograph operating using a standard sized drum and ink pen and a 'Marks Products' L15 seismometer (geophone). It is potted in a length of 5 cm dia plastic pipe ~0.2 m long with some 5 kg of lead for a bit of extra mass. The L15 is a horizontal short period unit and works very well recording quakes from all over New Zealand. As a rough sensitivity guide I can record a M3.7 at 320km (Christchurch area) and a M5.0 at ~620km (Wellington area) ( ie it is noticable above the background noise). I live in a suburban area and noise is a problem 7pm -- 7am is quiet but during the day hours a bit noisy as I am only 200m from the main motorway. The noise adds ~1-2mm of amplitude to a flatline trace and transient larger bursts with the passage of heavy trucks. I am delving into digital recording and thanks go to Jeff Batten for software and cct diag. help. Even when I get a digital system fully up and running I will always have at least one channel going to the good old pen and paper. A commercial long period seismometer is also soon to be installed. But the good old S. Period seism. picks up the lg M7+ events from ~Indonesia and the sth Pacific quite well as with the solomon event last weekend. cheers for now Dave A. Nelson ------------------------------------------------- Another Eudora user in Dunedin, New Zealand. ------------------------------------------------- . To: Willowb496@....... Cc: psn-l@............. Subject: Re: building a seismograph Willowb496@....... wrote: > I need to build a seismograph for school. It has to work > but not electronically-it just has to record something > if say the table it is on is shaken-do you know how I could > build an easy non electronical but working seismograph? If memory serves correctly, there was an early type of torsion seismograph that might meet your needs. It used a vertical wire held tightly at both ends. A thin guitar string from a music store for a couple of bucks would probably serve admirably. A weight was attached to the wire so that it stuck out to the side. I would suggest two flat bars of steel, not too heavy, that can be clamped together over the wire. Drill a couple of holes either side of where the wire will go and use bolts to clamp the two bars together. The bars have to be flat, so they will clamp tightly to the wire. If the wire spins between the bars, the seismograph will not work. A small mirror is attached to the metal bars where they clamp over the wires. If a light is shone on the mirror, the reflection will move when the wire twists. As you might guess, the bar weight is going to twist the wire. The magnification of the seismograph is dependent on the distance between the mirror and where the reflection hits a viewing surface such as a wall. If the seismograph is set up so the bar weights stick out to the east or west, then the seismograph will register horizontal motion in the north-south direction. North-south motion will move the wire north and south. The bar weight will try to stay motionless due to inertia. This will cause the wire to twist. Now since this is undoubtedly a school assignment, and at 15 you probably know some trigonometry, here is your assignment. Figure out how far the reflection will move when the table is moved by 1 mm. You should be able to develop a formula. How will the motion of the reflection change with length of bar and with reflection distance (mirror to wall)? What is a formula for amplification (motion of reflection / original motion to table) given the geometry of your weighted bar? As a clue, the outer end of the weighted bar will not stay motionless. The weighted bar will rotate about its centre of gravity. For a uniform bar (i.e. does not vary in cross- sectional size along its length; the exact shape does not matter) the centre of gravity will be in the centre of the bar. This is probably beyond your assignment, so you can ignore them for now, but there are other effects such as the return force created by the wire twisting that will cause a single original motion of 1 mm. to transform into an oscillation of the reflected image. There is also a slight damping affect due to the wire flexing as it twists. You did not mention having to record the motion. The original torsion seismograph used a moving piece of photographic film to record the reflection as a sort of sine wave. To duplicate this arrangement you would need a very dark room (does your school have a darkroom?), a very flat mirror, and a pinpoint source of light (shielded light source or laser). Hope this helps, Ron Westfall westfall@...... MPR Teltech Ltd. Vancouver, BC, Canada Date: Fri, 3 May 1996 16:41:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Hammond Howdy-- I would take it as a personal favor if you folks would find a post today in SCI.GEO.EARTHQUAKE entitled EARTHQUAKE & VOLVANO EXPERIENCES posted by a MRS. Madelene Gray and respond to the questions. This is a 5th grade class in Hanover, Maryland, and in an off-line chat I found out that I was the only person that responded to their initial posting... Thanks in advance I'll be posting my response this weekend. Regards, Steve Hammond -- PSN, San Jose . From: Alkut Aytun To: Public Seismic Network Cc: Multiple recipients of list psn-l X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Has anybody tried the "Analog Devices" chip-accelerometer, as described recently in Scientific American ? From: ae374@........ (Roger Sorensen) To: psn-l@............. Subject: Re: Re: Chip-Accelerometers Reply-To: ae374@........ X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hello all! Alkut Aytu asked if anyone had tried the Analog Devices - ADXL05 0-5g Accelerometer chip. I had planned to, but was unable to find anyone who had any to sell. I called Analog, and talked to their distributors with no luck. The best I got 2 months ago was "maybe in May or June." It appears, from searching the Web, that the Automotive Industry is eating up the entire production. If anyone has a source for these, please post it! I wonder if anyone lurking out there has figured out any fatal flaws with the concept. It looks great to me though, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on three of them. Keep Shakin' (not too hard though) Roger Sorensen Chatsworth, CA ae374@........ / rs@.......... / KD6LQE . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 8 May 1996 23:53:25 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960509065301.0032a994@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 08 May 1996 23:53:01 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: New AtoD card and WinQuake X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi, I have an update on the new AtoD card I am in the process of making. The PC board layout is now complete and the first run of prototype cards are now being made. I should get the boards (2 of them) early next week. If everything works I'll go for a larger run of boards and start selling them. For the new members of the PSN-L list you can find more information about the AtoD card in a archive file of this list. Archive files can be downloaded using your web browser (http://psn.quake.net/info/psnl96q1.txt) or using FTP. I have been working on a new release of WinQuake, if anyone has any suggestions on new features for the next release please drop me a line. One of the new features will be the ability to read the event files produced by the Princeton Earth Physics Project (http://lasker.princeton.edu/pepp.shtml). If anyone out there is involved with the PEPP please drop me a line. I should have the first beta release ready in a few days. Regards, Larry Cochrane . From: Ken Navarre Subject: Scientific American, May 96 To: PSN Mail List Message-ID: New article in the May '96 issue of Scientific American (pg 98) describes construction of VLF antenna. Their plans use a 24" piece of rebar for the core of the coil. Anyone have a good source for Mu-metal cores in the 2' range??? Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Sun, 12 May 1996 19:11:46 -0700 Received: from [199.120.107.244] (dip54.inav.net [199.120.107.244]) by soli.inav.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11868; Sun, 12 May 1996 21:11:03 -0500 Message-Id: <199605130211.VAA11868@.............> To: Ken Navarre , PSN Subject: Re: Scientific American, May 96 Date: Sun, 12 May 96 21:21:36 -0500 From: Jim Hannon X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I did some figuring on this and a Mu-metal core would increase the gain by about a factor of 100. However I have never seen Mu-metal in any other form than thin sheets. What I was wondering was what effect the length of the rod has on the gain. It certainly has an effect on the directivity, but I am not sure what it does for gain. My antennas book is packed away right now an I can't look it up. Anyway one could wind the coil on some grain oriented steel transformer laminates with a larger cross section than the rebar. It would not be as long but transformer steel has a slightly higher perm. than the rebar. My suggestion is to use a 1 inch steel bar that has been annealed. Jim Hannon -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Subject: Scientific American, May 96 New article in the May '96 issue of Scientific American (pg 98) describes construction of VLF antenna. Their plans use a 24" piece of rebar for the core of the coil. Anyone have a good source for Mu-metal cores in the 2' range??? Ken -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:17:57 -0700 Received: by emout14.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA09077 for psn-l@.............. Wed, 15 May 1996 23:16:51 -0400 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 23:16:51 -0400 From: ACole65464@....... Message-ID: <960515231649_492007191@....................> To: psn-l@............. Subject: Scientific American Accelerometer X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi All, I am like many of you who waiting in the wings to see who gets to build the seismometer as described in the 1996 April edition of the Scientific American Magazine's and to see how effective it is in detecting earthquakes. I recently spoke to a seismologist who read the article and in his opinion (for what it is worth), he said that the accelerommeters are not sensitive enough at .005 g for teleseismic events, the frequency range is on the high end and said that a single channel is the better way to go, and not do the summation thing as the author described. I have respect for this individual's advice as he has given me good advice in the past. Some time ago I sent Larry Cochrane an article I had written about how a horizontal long period velocity seismometer could have its period lengthened by using electronic feedback. This information is available from the PSN web site for downloading, thanks to Larry. This instrument has proven to be a fairly good broadband velocity seismometer. Sensitive to telesiemic events as well as picking up the high frequency energy of local events, something that I was hoping to see the Gunderson-Shackleford instrument be good at (it has problems integrating the high frequency velocity signals). My new instrument when adjusted to have a natural period of 5-6 seconds behaves like a 1-2 second short period seismometer but with the low frequency response extending out beyond 30 seconds. Having the natural period adjusted to 5-6 seconds for a seismometer with a 21" pendulum allows itself to stay centered for a LONG period of time between leveling adjustments. A seismometer with a 12+ seconds natural period is difficult to maintain, ie centered. Though the design, as I built my instrument, is a little more complex than the basic Lehman the results for me were well worth the extra effort. Lately I have been experimenting with other force-feedback designs for seismometers. Force-balance accelerometers are difficult to integrate for velocity outputs and best handled using software to process the signal, so I have given up on that approach. My current design uses velocity feedback to keep the pendulum centered. I am using a simple chopped light beam for displacement measurement, so from the output signal I can easily derive acceleration, velocity and displacement by using low pass filters for integrators. If any one has similar experiences building force-feedback devices please let me know, thanks. Regards, Allan . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:23:52 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id UAA11316; Wed, 15 May 1996 20:22:13 -0700 Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:22:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Scientific American VLF sensor - done... To: PSN Mail List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Well seismo-junkies I'm now into my first 15 minutes of sampling with the sensor described in the May issue of Scientific American. I made a few changes and am quite pleased (meaning that I'm *not* swamped with 60 cycle noise even thou I am in an urban environment near power lines...). Rather than the rebar I found a piece of 1" mild steel cut to 26" that I heated to red hot an then allowed to cool over a period of 7 hours while it was wrapped in an asbestos blanket. (After 7 hours it was still too hot to touch). After that I wrapped the coil using 8.75 lbs of 30 ga. copper wire. I have somewhere around 85,000 - 90,000 turns. It took 2 hours using a 750 RPM drill (yes, I measured the RPMS with a hand tach...) Only broke the wire twice... :( What a pain!!! I've placed the sensor in the backyard relatively close to the power lines and I don't get any AC noise. However, if I wiggle a large magnet while sitting in my room about 40' away from the sensor I get a HUGE wiggle - full saturation - from the coil outside. I'm using one of Larry's preamp/amp/cable drive cards - *very* low noise! My display has 1 channel dedicated to the new sensor and 2 channels for USGS telemetry. When it stops raining I'll add the backyard lehman to the mix. Hopefully, tonight we'll get some lightning strikes so I can see what they look like. Whoa! I see that I get a single sine wave when a car rolls down the street. Swings up as the car approaches and down as it passes... Looks like this'll be kind'a fun to play with! :) Anybody else built one of these "gizmos"?? Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:01:47 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom21.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id AAA03643; Fri, 17 May 1996 00:01:21 -0700 Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 00:01:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Sender: Ken Navarre Reply-To: Ken Navarre Subject: Attn: Michael J. Roseberry To: PSN Mail List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Michael, got a "bounce" when I tried to e-mail to roseberr@................. I'll try again later... Now back to our regularly scheduled programming... sorry for the interruption. Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Sat, 18 May 1996 08:41:48 -0700 Received: by emout19.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA13771 for psn-l@.............. Sat, 18 May 1996 11:41:11 -0400 Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 11:41:11 -0400 From: GeoMonitr@....... Message-ID: <960518114110_303836014@....................> To: psn-l@............. Subject: Quake ULF monitoring X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... patsdogs@............. WROTE: > Here are a few more (possibly dumb) questions, and then I'll quit bugging > you for a while. > 1) Can the strength of the mechanically-monitored ULF signals be measured > and directly linked with the magnitude of a subsequent event? In other > words, can a machine tell in advance whether it will be a large, small, or > medium quake? > 2) With all of the amateur radio buffs monitoring ELFs and ULFs and > building home seismographs, is there a central log-in point to record data > from various sources and maintain records on it? I haven't asked Vince > about it. > Maybe I'm missing something because I'm very new at it, but it seems as > though there are a lot of folks studying assorted aspects independently, > and not many of them getting together on it. True? What are your thoughts > about it? > Pat Hello Pat, Not dumb questions at all. 1. There are only a few RELIABLE experiments in the US, conducted by Fraser-Smith at Stanford and Jack Dea in San Diego. Their studies suggest that only large quakes (eg M5+) exhibit measurable ULF transients, and these must employ sensors relatively close to the epicenter. Some research in Greece (VAN method) report much more frequent signals, but that research is controversial. The bigger problem is that monitoring must be long term over a broad area, before we can reach any conclusions, AND there is a problem separating tectonic signals from man-made noise. 2. Geo-Monitor has hundreds of readers, but very few are actually conducting on-going experiments, and fewer still are reporting them. Hopefully the Scientific American article will help. I would LOVE to be a repository for such information. ANyone recording such ULF data and reporting it to me will receive a free subscription. I suspect the Society for Amateur Scientists will be collecting data too, as well as the Public Seismic Netowork, both on line, and both linked to my web site. Vince http://home.earthlink.net/~geomonitor/ . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:38:53 -0700 Received: from spessartine.wsu.edu (spessartine.geol.wsu.edu [134.121.47.33]) by cheetah.it.wsu.edu (8.6.13/WSUit-1.1) with SMTP id NAA23982; Mon, 20 May 1996 13:37:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:37:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199605202037.NAA23982@..................> X-Sender: grc@............ (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: PSN Mail List , Ken Navarre From: grc@............ (gary chantler) Subject: vlf X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Ken, (it's Gary at wsu) Just read your letter. Great job on the vlf sensor. I will build one soon. I'm wondering a few things. 1) what are the merits of using mild steel over rebar over Mu rich metal? 2) wont placeing the sensor near a lehman cause it to pick up the signal from the lehman coil and\or amplifier? 3) what is the orientation of your sensor and how far away was the car you detected? 4) What is your data collection device (I assume its your 486)? 5) Where did you get the wire 30 ga. (hardware store ?)? I am looking forward to building one my self, however, today I need to finish our second lehman (the fisrt worked so well that I'm building another hopefully i'll be able to get some directional data form the differences in signal strenght from the two). Anyway, hope all is well. gchantler@....... . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 21 May 1996 10:47:03 -0700 Received: from services.state.mo.us by services (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA00222; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:52:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199605211652.LAA00222@services> X-Sender: mgray1@.................... X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:50:17 -0500 To: psn-l@............. From: mgray1@................ (Mike Gray) Subject: A great loss X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I am sad to report that, after a short illness, Ray Cole of Cape Girardeau, MO has left this world for one that undoubtably does not have quakes. Ray has been active in amateur earthquake precursor research for many years. He has had much success with long distance prediction at approximately three day lead times. Prediction of local events was less successful and yielded 7-14 day lead times. Ray was open-minded to experiment with many techniques before concentrating on two that offered the most success at prediction. For a long time he tracked apparent frequency deviations of AM broadcast stations with much success at long distance prediction. Generally, the distance was from the central US to the west and east coast. The frequency deviations are apparent because checks at the transmitters did not indicate off frequency operation. Recently he found success with vertical magnetic anomaly indicators, after experimenting with other magnetic devices. He developed his own equipment and unique presentations of his data. He did not use computers! Many of the devices he designed and built are currently in use throughout the U.S. and some foreign countries with similar success. Ray's investigations were primarily to increase public safety through forewarning. Like weather forecasters, many of his predictions did not come true. Conditions were right but the dynamic earth changed to eventually nullify the unsuccessful predictions. Ray was able to track the negating trends with his techniques. Secondarily, he had an intense interest in what lay below his feet in the New Madrid fault zone. He saw promise in many other known precursors and also tracked those. Ray was also an accomplished AM broadcast band DXer (long distance listening), radio designer and builder. He temporarily leaves behind his wife, other relatives, and many friends around the world. Ray will be sadly missed. Mike Gray . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:01:25 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id LAA03702; Tue, 21 May 1996 11:00:40 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 11:00:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: vlf question cc: PSN Mail List In-Reply-To: <199605202037.NAA23982@..................> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... On Mon, 20 May 1996, Gary asked: > Just read your letter. Great job on the vlf sensor. I will build one soon. > I'm wondering a few things. > 1) what are the merits of using mild steel over rebar over Mu rich metal? None, other than I just happened to have a chunk the right size lying around and ready to go... :) as it turned out I screwed up and while turning the "spool" ends down on a lathe I managed to nick one of the base windings and lost continuity thru the coil. Had to rewind the whole darned thing. Lesson learned... if it works don't mess with it! It took me another 2 days to rewind it... :( This time I used the suggested piece of rebar. Performance is about the same but this time I stopped at 50,000 windings and the performance was SIGNIFICANTLY less than with the original 80,000 windings that I started with. So... I continued winding. A side benefit was that instead of the coil fitting inside a piece of 3" PVC it now rests comfortably in a lovely piece of 2" clear PVC. Given the time/cash, I'd rather have one of the commercial annealed mu-metal cores. > 2) wont placeing the sensor near a lehman cause it to pick up the signal > from the lehman coil and\or amplifier? My Lehman is inside a piece of 36" galvanized steel culvert pipe for protection and shielding. The magnetic force from the dinky magnet on the boom doesn't penetrate the pipe during it's small swings. > 3) what is the orientation of your sensor and how far away was the car you > detected? Ahhhhh, same question that I fired off to Anthony Fraser-Smith... awaiting a reply... Mine is oriented horizontally and parallel with the San Andreas fault. I want to know how he had his installed at Loma Prieta in '89. Orientation, height off ground, size of the sensor, kind of detector... > 4) What is your data collection device (I assume its your 486)? Yep. A 486 SX-20 running Larry's SDR program with multi channel display and a PC-LAB711s card. (BTW Larry said that he has his new A/D cards in beta testing now. Should be getting ready to make a run soon!) I'll be getting one for a portable installation. Just can't afford to keep buying those 711s) > 5) Where did you get the wire 30 ga. (hardware store ?)? I called all over tha place and couldn't get it in bulk. I finally tried an electric motor repair shop that had the stuff on the shelf in 9 lb reels. Mine came from Palo Alto Electric Motor Corp., 2584 Leghorn St., Mt. View Ca, 94043 (415) 919-0125. They also gave me enough of the fiberglass insulation to wrap around the bar so that I wouldn't short out the first layer of windings (thou with 80,000 winds I can afford to have a few shorted...) The wire cost me $87.00 > I am looking forward to building one my self, however, today I need to > finish our second lehman (the fisrt worked so well that I'm building > another hopefully i'll be able to get some directional data form the > differences in signal strenght from the two). One question that I've got is that it looks like the "detector" is just an op-amp and not a true RF detector. So we're just looking at voltage spikes and not converted RF energy. I kind'a thought that we'd need some kind of a true RF detector up front... Wonder what A. Fraser-Smith had on his??? Anyone know? Another question: Anyone know of a weather www site that might have a real-time display of lightning strike data??? I'd like to see if I can find a correlation between some of these spikes I get and lightning data from one of the lightning labs like in New Mexico. Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 21 May 1996 12:30:53 -0700 Received: from localhost by comtch.iea.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id TAA29316; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:30:21 GMT Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 12:30:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Shannon X-Sender: rshannon@comtch To: PSN Mail List Subject: Lightning Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... For Ken Navarre A supposed source for real-time lightning hits is at: http://www.alden.com/light1.html Bob Shannon Pinpoint News http://bbs.ert.com/~rshannon . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 21 May 1996 13:37:31 -0700 Received: from services.state.mo.us by services (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id PAA13181; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:39:39 -0500 Message-Id: <199605212039.PAA13181@services> X-Sender: mgray1@.................... X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 16:37:05 -0500 To: psn-l@............. From: mgray1@................ (Mike Gray) Subject: Re: Lightning Data and VLF/ULF/ELF X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... >On Mon, 20 May 1996, Gary asked: >> Just read your letter. Great job on the vlf sensor. I will build one soon. ------------------------snip---------------------------- >> 3) what is the orientation of your sensor and how far away was the car you >> detected? > >Ahhhhh, same question that I fired off to Anthony Fraser-Smith... >awaiting a reply... Mine is oriented horizontally and parallel with the >San Andreas fault. I want to know how he had his installed at Loma Prieta >in '89. Orientation, height off ground, size of the sensor, kind of >detector... > ----------------------snip------------------------------- >One question that I've got is that it looks like the "detector" is just >an op-amp and not a true RF detector. So we're just looking at voltage >spikes and not converted RF energy. I kind'a thought that we'd need some >kind of a true RF detector up front... Wonder what A. Fraser-Smith had on >his??? Anyone know? > ---------------------------snip--------------------------- >Another question: Anyone know of a weather www site that might have a >real-time display of lightning strike data??? I'd like to see if I can >find a correlation between some of these spikes I get and lightning data >from one of the lightning labs like in New Mexico. > >Ken > Hopefully, if anyone hears from Mr. Fraser-Smith or his colleagues, the info will be posted to this list! As to the lightning data, at one time it was available for free on the Web. The same company is now offering it on a subscription basis. The still have a public Web site but it has not been updated since Nov '95. I have asked for info about their services and costs and will post the reply to this list. For others interested in lightning and/or VLF/ELF/ULF try the following: http://www.gsfc.nasa.gov/education/inspire/inspire_home.html [Project INSPIRE continues on.] http://nis-www.lanl.gov/nis-projects/forte [those are small L's not "ones", this one may provide data via internet] There was some activity on the PSN-BBS's with ELF/VLF/ULF monitors providing results in a compressed "zoo" format. Where did these people go? I would like to know if anyone on this list has any equipment for subHertz (0.x Hertz) reception. Mike (mgray1@................. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:36:54 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id PAA25341; Tue, 21 May 1996 15:33:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 21 May 1996 15:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: VLF - first hit... To: PSN Mail List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Well, I've been working midnights for the past week and had just laid down for the day and was sound asleep when the Earthquake Goddess decided to be gracious and grant me a test-quake for the new sensor. Had a M4.7 about 20 km from me. Nice trace... too bad I slept thru it... and all the phone calls that followed! I'd say something but I try to keep profanity off the list... :( (long sigh...) Haven't looked in detail at the data but it looks like I caught a similar waveform from the VLF sensor as I got from the telemetry. No precursor but definately a nice trace. The signal attenuates much sooner than from the USGS signal but that's to be expected. Now I just need to try to figure out where the energy came from that excited the coil... film at 11... Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 21 May 1996 19:42:17 -0700 Received: from [199.120.107.196] (dip6.inav.net [199.120.107.196]) by soli.inav.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13638; Tue, 21 May 1996 21:41:17 -0500 Message-Id: <199605220241.VAA13638@.............> To: Ken Navarre , PSN Subject: Re: vlf question Date: Tue, 21 May 96 21:52:37 -0500 From: Jim Hannon X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Just couple of comments. By my calculations a MuMetal core would increase the sensitivity of the coil by about a factor of 100. Does anyone know where to get a MuMetal rod? I think the merits of the steel are that it is avaliable and inexpensive. RF detector? The frequencies this coil looks at are below audio frequencies ,. not RF. No detector is required, just amplify the signal and look at. The coil puts out a voltage that is related to the rate of change of the magnetic field the coil sees. A detector is a device that extract information modulated on to a carrier frequency. There is not carrier in this situation. Jim Hannon -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- Date: Tuesday, 21-May-96 11:00 AM From: Ken Navarre > 1) what are the merits of using mild steel over rebar over Mu rich metal? None, other than I just happened to have a chunk the right size lying around and ready to go... :) Given the time/cash, I'd rather have one of the commercial annealed mu- metal cores. One question that I've got is that it looks like the "detector" is just an op-amp and not a true RF detector. So we're just looking at voltage spikes and not converted RF energy. I kind'a thought that we'd need some kind of a true RF detector up front... Wonder what A. Fraser-Smith had on his??? Anyone know? Ken -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 22 May 1996 06:35:40 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom11.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id EAA03888; Wed, 22 May 1996 04:11:14 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 04:11:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Sender: Ken Navarre Reply-To: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: vlf question cc: PSN In-Reply-To: <199605220241.VAA13638@.............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Tue, 21 May 1996, Jim Hannon wrote: > Just couple of comments. By my calculations a MuMetal core would increase > the sensitivity of the coil by about a factor of 100. Does anyone know > where to get a MuMetal rod? Vince left a note for a supplier a while back. I'll check my notes and post the location. > I think the merits of the steel are that it is > avaliable and inexpensive. > RF detector? The frequencies this coil looks at are below audio frequencies > ,. not RF. No detector is required, just amplify the signal and look at. > The coil puts out a voltage that is related to the rate of change of the > magnetic field the coil sees. Following the M4.7 today it was apparent that the coil produced a voltage. Now to try to understand the source of the moving magnetic field... there was no "precursor" as such. The data traces from the telemetry and the coil begin at the same time but the signal on the coil drops off and is below threshold soon after (or perhaps just before) the S wave arrived. Can't really tell since the USGS sensor saturated... Duration of the event on the coil was 32.8 sec. while data from the USGS sensor lasted almost 4 minutes... I haven't plotted the epicenter on a map but gut feeling is that I was a tad closer to the focus than was the USGS sensor. > A detector is a device that extract > information modulated on to a carrier frequency. There is not carrier in > this situation. I was thinking back to Antony Fraser-Smith's experiment when I posed this question. Wasn't he involved in VLF communications research for the Navy at the time of the Loma Prieta earthquake??? Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:47:53 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id RAA12275; Wed, 22 May 1996 17:47:51 -0700 Date: Wed, 22 May 1996 17:47:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Sender: Ken Navarre Reply-To: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: vlf question To: PSN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Tue, 21 May 1996, Jim Hannon wrote: > Does anyone know where to get a MuMetal rod? The article stated that Mu-metal and Hy-Mu 80 cores could be obtained from Scientific Alloys, Westerly R.I., (401-596-4947). Cost is $107 ea. and "...annealing could double the cost". A trade off in expense occurs, though. When I wound 50,000 turns I didn't have anywhere near the performance I got with 80,000 turns. I paid $90 for enough wire to turn the 80,000 winding coil. By using a Mu-metal core you could get more performance with half the copper... that's $40 toward the spiffy core... I plan on getting one of these cores to compare the performance but an engine tune up on my truck has to come first ... :( Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 22 May 1996 18:32:31 -0700 Received: from [199.120.107.218] (dip28.inav.net [199.120.107.218]) by soli.inav.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA12228; Wed, 22 May 1996 20:32:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199605230132.UAA12228@.............> To: Ken Navarre , PSN Subject: Re: vlf question Date: Wed, 22 May 96 20:43:38 -0500 From: Jim Hannon X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03 X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Ken, Sorry, I am not familiar with Antony Fraser_Smith's experiment. But I am familiar with vlf communications being a communications engineer. If the experiment involved observing a vlf communications transmission during an earthquake then you would possibly be using a detector to observe the communications information and the effect of the earthquake on that communications. I was thinking of the observation of "natural" variations in the earth's magnetic field due to the earthquake. Since no one seems to know exactly what to expect from an earthquake, both of the above effects need to be studied. The coil in the SA article is specifically designed to observe the magnetic field variations rather than VLF communications. I am not aware of any communications experiments with frequencies below about 16Hz. This was the old project Sanguine, which was shut down by environmental concerns. The SA coil was designed for frequencies below this .. From your description of the event you observed it occured to me that measuring the time of arrival of the magnetic event and the seismic event is important and a lot could be learned about the magnetic effects from multiple observations from different locations of the magnetic effect since it travels essentially at the speed of light and the seismic waves travel considerably slower. For example: Does the magnetic effect come from the epicenter or is it local to the sensors? or Is the source diffuse or relativly concentrated? A personal note: Unfortunately I live in a relatively seismic quiet region of the US (Iowa) so I will have to be content with observing teleseismic events. We will be moving a few miles out of town in July. So I will be in a somewhat quiet area to set up some seismographs. Which I intend to do. Jim Hannon -------- REPLY, Original message follows -------- > RF detector? The frequencies this coil looks at are below audio frequencies > ,. not RF. No detector is required, just amplify the signal and look at. > The coil puts out a voltage that is related to the rate of change of the > magnetic field the coil sees. Following the M4.7 today it was apparent that the coil produced a voltage. Now to try to understand the source of the moving magnetic field... there was no "precursor" as such. The data traces from the telemetry and the coil begin at the same time but the signal on the coil drops off and is below threshold soon after (or perhaps just before) the S wave arrived. Can't really tell since the USGS sensor saturated... Duration of the event on the coil was 32.8 sec. while data from the USGS sensor lasted almost 4 minutes... I haven't plotted the epicenter on a map but gut feeling is that I was a tad closer to the focus than was the USGS sensor. > A detector is a device that extract > information modulated on to a carrier frequency. There is not carrier in > this situation. I was thinking back to Antony Fraser-Smith's experiment when I posed this question. Wasn't he involved in VLF communications research for the Navy at the time of the Loma Prieta earthquake??? Ken -------- REPLY, End of original message -------- . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 23 May 1996 06:42:19 -0700 Received: from services.state.mo.us by services (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA20439; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:44:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199605231344.IAA20439@services> X-Sender: mgray1@.................... X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 09:41:33 -0500 To: psn-l@............. From: mgray1@................ (Mike Gray) Subject: Re: vlf question X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... >Ken, >Sorry, I am not familiar with Antony Fraser_Smith's experiment. But I am >familiar with vlf communications being a communications engineer. If the >experiment involved observing a vlf communications transmission during an >earthquake then you would possibly be using a detector to observe the >communications information and the effect of the earthquake on that >communications. I was thinking of the observation of "natural" variations >in the earth's magnetic field due to the earthquake. ---------snip--------- For Jim Hannon and others not familiar with Antony Fraser-Smith's tie to earthquake precursors. Mr. Fraser-Smith was doing (top secret?) VLF (radio spectrum) research concerning submarine communications at the time of the Loma Prieta quake. He happened to notice an unusual increase in background noise at some time prior to the quake. I don't have the article with me at the moment. However, I recall his equipment saw the noise increase disappear when the quake occurred. This apparently was not accompanied by any other "normal" (to the mainstream researchers) precursor. However, if I recall correctly, one or more successful non-mainstream predictors had indicated a window for that area during the time the quake occurred. One does not necessarily have to have a manmade signal to investigate whether VLF has any connection to pre-quake or quake conditions. I consider background emissions (the noise floor) to be natural spectra. So there we have acoustic, magnetic, and electromagnetic (including light - visible or not) spectra that, probably in combination, need to be considered in earthquake and precursor research. Unfortunately, as we all know, there are different variations of each of the above. Some will work for some quake conditions and some won't. Does this list have any European members? There have been reports of unusual radio conditions prior to quakes. Some of those quakes were volcanic in origon and some not. Many of those reports came from amateur radio operators. I would like to correspond with you. Mike Gray (mgray1@................. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 23 May 1996 08:11:04 -0700 Received: from pop.liv.ac.uk by mail.liv.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) with ESMTP; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:09:29 +0100 Received: from peter.esc.liv.ac.uk (peter.esc.liv.ac.uk [138.253.4.131]) by pop.liv.ac.uk (8.6.13/8.6.6-ajt-2) with SMTP id QAA06036; Thu, 23 May 1996 16:08:59 +0100 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 16:08:59 BST From: Peter Styles Subject: Re: vlf question To: Mike Gray cc: psn-l@............. Message-ID: Priority: Normal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Dear members In response to Mike Gray's enquiry. Just to confirm that there are some of us out here in Europe. I am having a student build the EM detector as a project (as well as the accelerometer-based seismometer) and will try them for some of our mining-induced earthquakes which are my main research field ( magnitudes from -3 to 2.8 or so). I know where the hypocentres will be, ie located near the extracted zone, and can get right above the source. Our main problem is large 50 Hz mains return through the ground, but we have ways of removing that, maybe!. I dont know if the magnitudes will be latge enough for any significant effect but I will be only 0.5 to 1 km from the focus. Dr Peter Styles sr15@................ Microseismic Research Group Department of Earth Sciences University of Liverpool Liverpool L69 3BX United Kingdom Tel: 44 (0)151 794 5174 Fax: 44 (0)151 794 5170 'May the Earth move for you!' . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:09:22 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id KAA23288; Thu, 23 May 1996 10:08:38 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 10:08:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: vlf question To: Jim Hannon cc: PSN In-Reply-To: <199605230132.UAA12228@.............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Wed, 22 May 1996, Jim wrote: > Sorry, I am not familiar with Antony Fraser_Smith's experiment. But I am > familiar with vlf communications being a communications engineer. If the > experiment involved observing a vlf communications transmission during an > earthquake then you would possibly be using a detector to observe the > communications information and the effect of the earthquake on that > communications. I was thinking of the observation of "natural" variations > in the earth's magnetic field due to the earthquake. Yeah, know the feeling of confusion. There seems to be a lot of that in connection with the fraser-Smith experiment. Part of the problem (i've been told) has to do with the fact that at least a portion of the experiment was under U.S. Navy contract and not a lot of that aspect is being discussed - at least in circles that I'm privy to. [snip] > >From your description of the event you observed it occured to me that > measuring the time of arrival of the magnetic event and the seismic event is > important and a lot could be learned about the magnetic effects from > multiple observations from different locations of the magnetic effect since > it travels essentially at the speed of light and the seismic waves travel > considerably slower. For example: Does the magnetic effect come from the > epicenter or is it local to the sensors? or Is the source diffuse or > relativly concentrated? Good questions. This event was almost in the middle of the area between me and the Mt. Mocho USGS sensor (22 km from the epicenter to me and 24 km to the USGS sensor). Both were plotted with Larry's SDR so there was no problem with syncronizing timing. Both channels were recorded simultaneously and each waveform could be manupilated independantly for examination. Really a helpful tool! Hate to keep saying it but... Thanks Larry! > A personal note: Unfortunately I live in a relatively seismic quiet region > of the US (Iowa) so I will have to be content with observing teleseismic > events. We will be moving a few miles out of town in July. So I will be in > a somewhat quiet area to set up some seismographs. Which I intend to do. I'd also be interested in hearing what you observe with the coil regarding atmospheric disturbances. Lightning discharges and such. YOu'll be in a prime location for that kind of activity won't you? Take care. Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:27:20 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom8.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id MAA15270; Thu, 23 May 1996 12:27:03 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 12:27:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: VLF observation To: PSN Mail List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Hummmmm, acting on a tip from Larry I checked what would happen if I stomped on the ground around the VLF coil. Sure enough I got a simulated P waveform with full saturation. Looks as if the data trace that I collected the other day during the M4.7 event may have been caused by movement of the coil in a stationary magnetic field rather than some moving electromagnetic field. Guess I just built one of the world's largest seismometers. Dinky movable coil with the earth as the fixed magnet... :( This is going to be a problem if you close to the epicenter of an earthquake. No matter how you mount the coil its gonna get moved with ground motion. That would also explain why the signal dropped of as the P Wave passed. This sensor was aligned such that the P wave hit it broadside in its most sensitive orientation and the S waves moved it parallel to the magnetic field. Back to the drawing board... Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:10:47 -0700 Received: (from david@localhost) by IPAC11.ipac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00855; Thu, 23 May 1996 19:04:02 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 19:04:00 -0700 (PDT) From: David Josephson Subject: Re: VLF observation, and lower frequencies To: psn-l@............. cc: kjn@.......... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Thu, 23 May 1996, Ken Navarre wrote: > Hummmmm, acting on a tip from Larry I checked what would happen if I > stomped on the ground around the VLF coil. Sure enough I got a simulated > P waveform with full saturation. Looks as if the data trace that I > collected the other day during the M4.7 event may have been caused by > movement of the coil in a stationary magnetic field rather than some > moving electromagnetic field. More than likely. Maybe these signals are caused by hundreds of furry critters moving around more nervously in the days before a quake? [should I put a smiley here for the humor impaired? really?] My understanding of the ULF work as reported by Fraser-Smith and Jack Dea at the Navy lab in San Diego is that they see a correlation in the long term noise level -- integration period of some minutes -- in the days before a quake. A discrete event signal is almost certainly caused by motion of the sensor; the source of the Fraser-Smith and Dea signals as far as I could guess from the data presented would have to be the summing of a huge number of individual impulses from the stress zone. It makes the most sense to me, to look at the spectrum of the signal averaged over some minutes or hours, and watch the level and spectral distribution wander up and down. Making sure you also have the power line components and diurnal variations removed, you should see one broad spectral peak (the earth's Schumann resonance near 7 Hz) and then look at variations in the spectral windows above and below. The shape of the overall spectrum will depend mostly on the resonance of your coil sensor. The discussion is generally about the band of signals from 0.01 to 10 Hz. 0.01 Hz means a period of 100 seconds -- you are not going to get this data from a coil sensor. I don't know what sensors they are using besides coils, but the choices are proton-precession magnetometers, optically pumped (cesium or rubidium vapor or metastable helium) or SQUID magnetometers. Proton mags are easy to make for frequencies below about 0.5 Hz (the main maker of these mags is Geometrics in Sunnyvale, and I worked there for 10 years), more difficult but still doable for frequencies up to about 2 Hz. Geometrics blew out a bunch of scrap some months ago and there is still a proton mag sensor in the odd ham radio gear section at Halted Specialties in Sunnyvale if someone wants to make one (it's a green fiberglass tube about 7" diameter x 14" long, on square phenolic shockmounts, with coils inside and probably filled with decane or kerosene). There is a very old circuit in one of the "Amateur Scientist" books by Strong, and Geometrics would probably sell you the schematic for a G-803 which is the last one made before going to microprocessor control. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:09:23 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom23.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id WAA12680; Thu, 23 May 1996 22:08:57 -0700 Date: Thu, 23 May 1996 22:08:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: VLF observation, and lower frequencies cc: psn-l@............. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Thu, 23 May 1996, David wrote: [Good info snipped] > ...you are not going to get > this data from a coil sensor. I don't know what sensors they are using > besides coils, but the choices are proton-precession magnetometers, > optically pumped (cesium or rubidium vapor or metastable helium) or > SQUID magnetometers. Oh fine, David! GO ahead and rain on my parade! :) I take it from the above that I'm just not going to make any wonderful observations from this lovely hand would coil... (Kind'a figured that...) :( ....winding 10,429, winding 10,430, winding 10,431... only a few thousand more turns to go... :( Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 24 May 1996 03:29:08 -0700 Received: (from david@localhost) by IPAC11.ipac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA03314; Fri, 24 May 1996 03:22:19 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 03:22:18 -0700 (PDT) From: David Josephson Subject: Re: VLF observation, and lower frequencies To: Ken Navarre cc: psn-l@............. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Thu, 23 May 1996, Ken Navarre wrote: > On Thu, 23 May 1996, David wrote: > > [Good info snipped] > > ...you are not going to get > > this data from a coil sensor. I don't know what sensors they are using > > besides coils, but the choices are proton-precession magnetometers, > > optically pumped (cesium or rubidium vapor or metastable helium) or > > SQUID magnetometers. > > Oh fine, David! GO ahead and rain on my parade! :) I take it from the > above that I'm just not going to make any wonderful observations from > this lovely hand would coil... (Kind'a figured that...) :( Come on Ken, it isn't my rain on your parade! Coils will work fine above about 1 Hz... but check your noise spectrum to see what sort of detection threshhold you have for lower frequency signals. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 24 May 1996 12:10:31 -0700 Received: by stealth.cacd.rockwell.com (1.37.109.14/16.2) id AA246714163; Fri, 24 May 1996 13:56:03 -0500 Received: from apollo1.cacd.rockwell.com(131.198.38.6) by stealth.cacd.rockwell.com via smap (V1.3) id sma024664; Fri May 24 13:55:41 1996 Received: from pc110417 by apollo1 with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA20415; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:09:26 -0500 Received: from cc:Mail SMTPLINK 2.1 by ccmgw1.cacd.rockwell.com id AA832964968; Fri, 24 May 96 14:08:00 cst Date: Fri, 24 May 96 14:08:00 cst From: "jmhannon" Encoding: 35 Text Message-Id: <9604248329.AA832964968@........................> To: Ken Navarre , psn-l@............. Subject: Re: VLF observation X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Ken, I had thought about this also. It may not be as big a problem as it seems. If what is to be observed is precursor indications then picking up the vibrations may only be an irritation not a limitation of the device. If the precursor indication is a general increase in the noise level over several hours. Then the coil could be oriented 90 degrees to the earth's magnetic field and thereby reduce the vibration induced voltages without reducing the sensitivity to the desired signal. To observe a general increase in noise level the recorded digital signal will need some processing to bring out this information from the recorded data. Another thought I had is that the coil problably needs a good electrostatic shield to prevent the pickup of other undesirable signals. Hanging the coil from some rubber bands would reduce the high frequency component of the vibration "noise". Jim Hannon ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ >Subject: VLF observation >Author: Ken Navarre at ccmgw1 >Date: 5/23/96 2:33 PM >Hummmmm, acting on a tip from Larry I checked what would happen if I >stomped on the ground around the VLF coil. Sure enough I got a >simulated P waveform with full saturation. Looks as if the data trace >that I collected the other day during the M4.7 event may have been >caused by movement of the coil in a stationary magnetic field rather >than some moving electromagnetic field. >Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:59:44 -0700 Received: from spessartine.wsu.edu (spessartine.geol.wsu.edu [134.121.47.33]) by cheetah.it.wsu.edu (8.6.13/WSUit-1.1) with SMTP id OAA26968; Fri, 24 May 1996 14:59:00 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 14:59:00 -0700 Message-Id: <199605242159.OAA26968@..................> X-Sender: grc@............ X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: PSN Mail List , Ken Navarre From: grc@............ (gary chantler) Subject: vlf detector X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... ken, I agree with jim H. The point of the vlf mag. detector would seem to be detecting events not associated with ground movement. This would not be true if your goal was to check the change in the mag. feild during an earth quake but you have no frame of reference for what the mag. feild shouild be during a quake (recorded from within the influence of the quake). long distace vlf mag. recodings would have to used in comparison to yours (ie, those outside the influence of the quake) and I'm not sure where you would go to find those. However, Looking for signs of an impending quake still seem to be a very real possibility. Even though you didn't get a distinct signal from the 4.8, it may take several weeks or months of recording to get a good background data base to use. Don't lose heart. Keep up the good work. Gary Chantler (talk to you next week, i'm outa here for the weekend). Gchantler@....... . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 24 May 1996 15:45:47 -0700 Received: from localhost by comtch.iea.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id WAA02968; Fri, 24 May 1996 22:45:11 GMT Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Shannon X-Sender: rshannon@comtch To: gary chantler cc: PSN Mail List , Ken Navarre Subject: Re: vlf detector In-Reply-To: <199605242159.OAA26968@..................> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... PINPOINT now has #2 special address URL's. Each is significant in it's own way..... #1 http://bbs.ert.com/pinpoint The #1 address is our permanent home base. It is *right* on the ocean and in Mendocino, across from the High School. It is 11 miles offshore to the San Andreas fault. It is easy to remember....and it is run by our very long time friend Bob Blick, who has managed after all these years to get his own providing service together...! #2 http://bbs.ert.com/pinpoint/alert.html With the addition of /alert.html you will now have Xpert mode in finding quakes on the west coast and the world without the hassle of htp'ing around the net...It's all here and it's all fast. **PLUS Pinpoints latest automatic earthquake messages are generated here and posted here *as well* as the latest and *fastest* information on quakes which have just occured. **NOTE You can get to the #1 page from teh #2 page BUT you cannot go from the #1 page to the #2...#2 is for the pros and will grow under construction as you suggest over the next few days.. - Pinpoint Newsletter (c)92 R. Shannon . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:14:00 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id UAA23804; Fri, 24 May 1996 20:13:25 -0700 Date: Fri, 24 May 1996 20:13:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: VLF observation cc: psn-l@............. In-Reply-To: <9604248329.AA832964968@........................> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Fri, 24 May 1996, jmhannon wrote: [snip] > reducing the sensitivity to the desired signal. To observe a general > increase in noise level the recorded digital signal will need some > processing to bring out this information from the recorded data. I've been looking at the FFT with WINQUAKE of selected portions of the data. IT'd be nice to be able to have a continous running display of the FFT as the data was collected... Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Sun, 26 May 1996 15:55:56 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 10:55:40 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: good shake X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... hi all, Latest NZ quake rcorded U.T.: 1996 May 26 1013 NZST: 1996 May 26 10.13 p.m. Lat, Long: 39.10S 175.10E Location: 30 km southwest of Taumarunui, North Island, NZ Focal depth: 237 km Magnitude: 5.6 Felt in Wellington, probably extensively along the East Coast of Nth Is. Dave A. Nelson ------------------------------------------------- Another Eudora user in Dunedin, New Zealand. ------------------------------------------------- . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 28 May 1996 10:12:10 -0700 Received: from LOCALNAME (slip11.lunet.it) by tex.lunet.it (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24915; Tue, 28 May 96 19:05:29 +0200 Date: Tue, 28 May 96 19:05:29 +0200 Message-Id: <9605281705.AA24915@............> X-Sender: lu000035@............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: PSN-L@............. From: Michele Rossi Subject: ideas for seismometers Cc: michele.rossi@........ X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Dear Sirs, I have known that you are specialist in seysmometer manufacturing by yourself. I too am very interested to this matter and i should be very glad if you could contact me. Actually i am working with 6 seismometers all home made and i have had good results. Since i like to go better please tell me in which way i can come in touch with your grup and ifyou can help me in calculation or advising about these device. . Always I have to project all seismometers because I haven't drawing concerning these technics. At the moment I have 3 horizontal devices and 3 verticals and the periods are: for vertical: 0,75/sec , 1,20/sec , 175/sec. The horizontals have a period of 4/sec 7/sec 8,5/sec. That is all. awaiting an your kind reply have my best regards. My name is Liberio Rossi and e-mail is the same as Michele. Ciao . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 28 May 1996 18:16:01 -0700 Received: (from shammond@localhost) by netcom9.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id SAA07945; Tue, 28 May 1996 18:15:32 -0700 Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 18:15:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Hammond Subject: Re: ideas for seismometers To: PSN-L@............. In-Reply-To: <9605281705.AA24915@............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Where are the seismographs located? What are they connected to, a PC, a chart recorder? Regards, Steve Hammond PSN San Jose, California On Tue, 28 May 1996, Michele Rossi wrote: > Dear Sirs, > I have known that you are specialist in seysmometer manufacturing by yourself. > I too am very interested to this matter and i should be very glad if you > could contact me. > Actually i am working with 6 seismometers all home made and i have had good > results. Since i like to go better please tell me in which way i can come > in touch with your grup and ifyou can help me in calculation or advising > about these device. . Always I have to project all seismometers because I > haven't drawing concerning these technics. At the moment I have 3 horizontal > devices and 3 verticals and the periods are: for vertical: 0,75/sec , > 1,20/sec , 175/sec. > The horizontals have a period of 4/sec 7/sec 8,5/sec. > That is all. awaiting an your kind reply have my best regards. > My name is Liberio Rossi and e-mail is the same as Michele. > Ciao > > . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 29 May 1996 08:01:55 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 02:59:49 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: lichen dating of quakes X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... hi all, just listened to one of the most stimulating geology lectures at our local Univ of Otago geol. dept today. It was by Dr. Bill Bull of the Univ. of Arizona, Tucson, on the subject of dating historic and prehistoric lrg quakes on NZ's Alpine Fault here in the South Is. and on the San Andreas and other maj faults in sthrn Calif.. The method entailed measuring the diameter of the largest lichen on rocks of rockfalls (that had been caused by seismic shaking or natural erosion processes). When many lichens over a large area are measured and their sizes averaged with basic statistical methods the plots will show peaks which directly relates to the age of the lichen. The wide area data overcomes the problem of local non-seismic causes of rockfalls. In NZ the lichen used was the Rhizocarpon genus of which growth patterns had been established. : stg 1.--- 7 yr colonisation time very little obv. growth stg 2.--- a period of ragid growth 1mm inc. in dia/6 yrs stg 3.--- a final long (rest of life) period of steady slower growth ~16mm/100yrs He measured/plotted 30,000 lichens between Haast Pass in the SW to the NE end of the Alpine Fault over a distance of some 350 km. The accuracy of the the plots to show up known large events in that region was uncanny, his dating was accurate to +-5 yrs and in some cases only 1-2 yrs. He liked to be conservative and say +-10 yrs. Four major events were obs. in the data in the last 1000 yrs: event date (+-10yrs) 967AD 1226 1489 1748 (1996) lichen size (mm) 166 125 84 43 time between events (yrs) 258+-14 264+-14 259+-14 time elapsed since last maj event 248+-10 as can be seen going on those avg's my neck of the woods is about ready for the next big A.Flt event They also proved much more accurate than carbon dating which had at least +- 50 yrs variation. Bill predicts within the next 25+_10 yrs This is only a brief summary if you get a chance read his works. His published articles are: Prehistoric eqs on the Alpine Fault, NZ Jor. of geophysical research, Vol 101, No.b3, pp6037-6050( Mar 10.1996) + supplements Dating San Andreas Fault EQS with Lichenometry Geology; Feb 1996; V24; No. 2; pp111-114 Hope you enjoy this, Dave Dave A. Nelson Green Is., Dunedin, South Is.. New Zealand. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 29 May 1996 18:34:01 -0700 Received: from lkf0183.deltanet.com (lkf0183.deltanet.com [199.171.191.183]) by mail1.deltanet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04048 for ; Wed, 29 May 1996 18:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 18:30:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199605300130.SAA04048@..................> X-Sender: rayg@................. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Public Seismic Network From: rayg@............ (Raymond Gilman) Subject: Re: VHF Receivers for Telemetry X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... > Hi, I am interested in obtaining one of the radios you mention, do you have any left? > >Greetings, > >I have a pile (about 20) of former fire truck radios that are >ideal for monitoring USGS telemetry. They are GE Mastr Pro's, and >in about five minutes you can remove the receiver and toss the >rest. The receiver is a self-contained box about 3x4x16", and all >of the mating connectors, etc. are included. These are the last >model they made before going to a special oscillator module for >frequency control, which means you can order a crystal for about >$12 that will set it on frequency. The receiver model number is >4ER41A11, tuned for the 150.8-174 MHz band. > >If you take the whole radio, I'd like $10. If you'd like the >receiver by itself, with mating connectors, $15. It takes about >15 minutes at most to align them to the telemetry frequency of >your choice, once you've plugged in the crystal. You need a >regular multimeter (VOM or DVM) and if you have a strong signal >from the USGS site you can use that as a test signal. The radios >operate on 10 volts DC (anything from 9 to 11 is okay as long as >it's stable). Performance will beat any scanner radio, particularly >in the ability to reject off-channel signals. I have full schematics, >tuneup info, etc. on them on microfiche only; if enough people are >interested I'll make prints and copy them. > >I'm in the process of putting one of these up with Larry's >demodulator board to monitor one of the local sites, it should >work fine. If you'd like one or some, e-mail or call 408-238-6062. > >Cheers >David Josephson > > > . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 31 May 1996 02:53:02 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960531095237.00727534@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 02:52:37 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: WinQuake Version 2.2 Beta 1.0 X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi All, I released a new beta version of WinQuake today. The 16 bit version for Windows 3.1 is in the file wq16b1.zip and the 32 bit version for Win95 or NT is in the file wq32b1.zip. I have the new software on my system at psn.quake.net and on another system at ftp.seismicnet.com. This system is connected to the internet using a T3 line. My system is connected to the internet using a 28.8 baud modem so using the other address should be a lot faster for downloading files. At this point I only have the /software and /info directories mirror on this system. If you use FTP to download the software from ftp.seismicnet.com you will need to change to the /psn/software directory. If you use your web browser you can uses the following URLs: 32 bit version: ftp://ftp.seismicnet.com/netscape/ns-home/docs/psn/software/wq32b1.zip 16 bit version: ftp://ftp.seismicnet.com/netscape/ns-home/docs/psn/software/wq16b1.zip If you have any problems with this new release of WinQuake please drop me a line. The following is from the update.txt file describing the new features: WinQuake now reads data files from the Princeton Earth Physics Project. Their home page is: http://lasker.princeton.edu/pepp.shtml. I found some data files at this FTP site: ftp://lasker.princeton.edu/pub/incoming/. This beta release will not save files in this format yet. The File Save dialog box now has a archive feature. To use this feature you must first setup the base drive and directory that will hold your archive files. To do this select the Directory button and select a drive and directory. On my system I use F:\QUAKES. Now when you select the Make button, a new name for the file will be displayed. The name will be: BASE_DIR\YYMM\YYMMDDnn.file_extension where YY = year, MM = month, DD = day, and nn = A thru Z. The time information used to make the new file name is from the information in the event file header. Different magnitude table files (magtbl.*) can now be used. If a magtbl.station_id file is found in the same directory as the winquake.exe or winqk32.exe file, this table will be used for magnitude calculation. If no magtbl file is found the default table magtbl.dat will be used. Example: If a file with the extension *.lc1 is loaded and there is a magtbl.lc1 in the directory that WinQuake started from, then this magtbl file will be used to calculate magnitude along with the magnitude correction number for this station. When WinQuake reads a report file it now searches for a string to identify what format the file is in. The keyword REPORT_TYPE has been added to the report.dat file used to parse report files. This string should be set to a unique string found in the report. Enjoy... Regards, Larry . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 31 May 1996 18:34:39 -0700 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id VAA20284; Fri, 31 May 1996 21:34:14 -0400 Date: 31 May 96 21:32:37 EDT From: Robert L Barns <75612.2635@..............> To: netlist Subject: book review Message-ID: <960601013237_75612.2635_GHL145-2@..............> X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi, I have recently developed an irresistable urge to build a seismograph. Having studied all the Sci. American Amateur Scientist articles, I favor trying the mercury tiltmeter described (with wonderful clarity and thoroughness) by William Gile in the Nov. 1973 issue. It would be very helpful to hear about either positive or negative experiences with this type of rig. As a retired chemist, I have no qualms about handling liquid mercury and considerable experience with electronics makes the associated circuitry look feasible. I have an old 286 computer which would be devoted to recording data. Are there any other papers on care and feeding of the tiltmeter? I bought a copy of Bruce Bolt's book, 'Earthquakes and Geological Discovery', 1993. Magnificent!! The author is clearly an expert in this field and writes easily understood descriptions. The book was beautifully produced by Sci. Am. and the photographs, graphs and diagrams are very good. I have never seen as good an introduction to any other field. Bob Barns, Berkeley Heights, NJ . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 31 May 1996 18:44:18 -0700 Received: from localhost by comtch.iea.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id BAA26683; Sat, 1 Jun 1996 01:43:54 GMT Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:43:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Shannon X-Sender: rshannon@comtch To: Robert L Barns <75612.2635@..............> cc: netlist Subject: Helena Ca, subduction 3.1 In-Reply-To: <960601013237_75612.2635_GHL145-2@..............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I am extremely interested in the EQ at 3.1 at 5:52 PCT in Helena CA on Rt 299 or so..Appears to be a subduction quake and in a rare area. Last time we had one this area was ALSO just a few days after one or two at Fort Ross...I saw a pattern then, and do so now..last one a year ago...then shortly after was another bigger one.. Also noticing swarms in S Bay, followed by unsual shallow in E Bay...Something seems to be a brewing...If Alan J is around I wish he would check his "book" for the last Fort Ross...and Helena combo! Bob Pinpoint Newsletter (c)92 R. Shannon . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 31 May 1996 23:06:23 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 01 Jun 1996 18:04:01 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: QUAKE !!! X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Hi all, yet another M5+ quake in NZ, If you relied on the NEIC for reports you may be forgiven for thinking that NZ is seismically in-active as very few reports ever get published in the weekly lists : At least there are a lot of us that know that NZ is a great place to study seismology. U.T.: 1996 May 31 2331 NZST: 1996 June 32 11.31 a.m. Lat, Long: 40.62S 175.35E Location: 23 km NE of Otaki Focal depth: 33 km Magnitude: 5.4 Felt in lower 1/2 of North Island and very upper Sth Is. Cheers Dave Dave A. Nelson Green Is., Dunedin, South Is.. New Zealand. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 3 Jun 1996 20:48:12 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960604034743.0036da88@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 20:47:43 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: Cc: A/D card update X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi All, For those of you interested in the A/D card I'm in the process of making heres an update: Two weeks ago I picked up 3 blank PC boards, I now have two of them working! It looks like all of the circuitry is working and the layout with the 16 bit AtoD chip seems to have a +- 3 count (not bits) noise level. The 12 bit version has less then one bit of noise. With a +-3 count noise level the 16 bit version has about 10X dynamic range over the 12 bit version. The bad news is I only have 10 16 bit chips in stock and I'm going to keep two of them. I only bought 10 chips because I didn't know what the noise level was going to be and they cost a lot more then the 12 bit version. I have 25 of the 12 bit versions, and it can take up to 3 months to get more chips because of the lead time from Burr Brown. If you order a 16 bit version and I run out of 16 bit chips I can send the board with a 12 bit chip and replace it when I get more 16 biters. The chip is in a socket so it can be replaced in the field. The next thing to do is get a quote for a larger run of boards, since I have 35 chips total I will see how much 35 blank boards will cost. If the cost per board is around $55.00 I will be able to sell the 12 bit version with the SDR timing circuitry and WWV time correction for under $195.00 and the 16 bit version for around $250.00. The EMON only version will be a little less since it wont have the extra parts for WWV time correction and the SDR timing stuff. After I get the quote back for the 35 boards I will be able to start taking orders and money. I have a picture of one of the prototype on a Web page at: http://psn.quake.net/atod.html For those of you new to the list heres some info on the A/D card: A basic 12 bit board that will work with EMON (no timing circuitry) will be around $160 to $170 each. A 12 bit board with timing circuitry that will work with my data logging software SDR will be in the $180.00 to $195.00 range. Other options will be: The board can have either a 12 or 16 bit AtoD chip. The cost for a 16 bit AtoD version will be about $50 more. The board can be upgraded to a 16 bit chip in the field by simply replacing the 12 bit AtoD chip. The following options will only be useful if you plan to run SDR. The board will have circuity to decode the time from WWV by using a short wave receiver. If you can receive one of the WWV signals (5, 10 and 15Mhz) you will be able to keep the time accurate to +- 20 Milliseconds. For this option you will need to run SDR because all of the timing work is done in software. This option will be around $20 to $30. And the last option will be a temperature controlled oven for the reference oscillator. The normal board will have a TTL type oscillator. These (and all crystal oscillators) are very sensitive to temperature changes. By surrounding a oscillator with a constant temperature the system timing can be keep to a few ten's of milliseconds of drift per day. Without it, the drift can be in the hundreds of milliseconds per day. The cost of this option is going to be high do to it being very labor intensive to build and test. I'm trying to keep this option under $100.00. The board will have 8 analog inputs. Currently EMON will only use 3 and SDR 4 channels. Each input will take +- 5 volts, but other input ranges will be possible. One thing I should note: EMON currently does not have an option to work with this new board. As soon as I can get another board built, I'll give it to Ted Blank so he can hopefully (if he has time ect..) add it to the list of boards that EMON will support. That's it for now... Regards, Larry . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:18:40 -0700 Received: from lkf1232.deltanet.com (lkf1232.deltanet.com [199.171.191.232]) by mail1.deltanet.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12234 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:13:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31B4EE20.6EF4@............> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 19:17:04 -0700 From: Ray Gilman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: psn-l@............. Subject: request for info on propagation delays X-URL: http://psn.quake.net/maillist.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I have been in the process of testing a newly developed siesmometer, meaning hoping for an event. Any way I got one last night (6-03-96 10:02 pm PST) according to my clock. Trouble is USGS reports a 3.1 in the Tahachipi's at 9:52 pm PST ( actually at 6-04-96 05:52 UTC) about 10 minutes before I got the event. I live in Mission Viejo, about 150 to 200 miles from the event. Does propagation delay explain the difference and or something else? . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:23:36 -0700 Received: from lkf1232.deltanet.com (lkf1232.deltanet.com [199.171.191.232]) by mail1.deltanet.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12561 for ; Tue, 4 Jun 1996 19:16:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31B4EEE5.47EE@............> Date: Tue, 04 Jun 1996 19:20:21 -0700 From: Ray Gilman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: psn-l@............. Subject: Vertical Siesmometers X-URL: http://psn.quake.net/maillist.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I have seen referance to Vertical siesmomters. What does this mean, is it the sensing direction or the orientation of the pendulum or something different. I would very much appreciate clarification on this. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:18:27 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom13.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id AAA06457; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:18:02 -0700 Date: Wed, 5 Jun 1996 00:18:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Re: request for info on propagation delays cc: PSN Mail List In-Reply-To: <31B4EE20.6EF4@............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... > I have been in the process of testing a newly developed siesmometer, > meaning hoping for an event. Any way I got one last night (6-03-96 10:02 > pm PST) according to my clock. Trouble is USGS reports a 3.1 in the > Tahachipi's at 9:52 pm PST ( actually at 6-04-96 05:52 UTC) about 10 > minutes before I got the event. I live in Mission Viejo, about 150 to 200 > miles from the event. > > Does propagation delay explain the difference and or something else? Wow, 10 minutes is a REALLY long time for a 200 mile trip! P Waves travel about 6.2 miles/sec give or take a tad depending on the ground structure. S waves are slower but certainly not *that* slow. I'd expect a travel time on the order of maybe a minute for the S-wave to reach your location. Certainly not 10 minutes. Maybe you caught something else... You might try to view your seismogram in Winquake and mark the onset of the P wave and S wave to let the program estimate the distance to epicenter. Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 5 Jun 1996 01:14:51 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960605081423.005d7e6c@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 05 Jun 1996 01:14:23 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: Re: request for info on propagation delays and vertical sensor X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi Ray, At 07:17 PM 6/4/96 -0700, you wrote: >I have been in the process of testing a newly developed siesmometer, >meaning hoping for an event. Any way I got one last night (6-03-96 10:02 >pm PST) according to my clock. Trouble is USGS reports a 3.1 in the >Tahachipi's at 9:52 pm PST ( actually at 6-04-96 05:52 UTC) about 10 >minutes before I got the event. I live in Mission Viejo, about 150 to 200 >miles from the event. > >Does propagation delay explain the difference and or something else? I don't think you received the Tahachipi event unless you clock is way off. It may be possible to pick up a 3.1 event that far away if you have a really low background noise. I know I would not be able to get a 3.1 that far away, but I live next to a freeway. The USGS sensors I monitor would probable get something. The P wave, the first wave that will arrive at your station, travels about 6.2km (not miles, Ken N. miss spoke) or about 3.8 miles per second. That would make the quake about 3700km (2300 miles) from you. What you got may just be local ground noise. >I have seen referance to Vertical siesmomters. What does this mean, is it >the sensing direction or the orientation of the pendulum or something >different. A vertical sensor measures the up/down ground movement, a horizontal sensor picks up the sideways movement. A complete seismic station would have one vertical and two horizontal. One horizontal sensor would be pointed North/South and the other East/West. On a Lehman type sensor the boom would actually be perpendicular to the orientation. Another words, a N/S sensor would have the boom pointed E/W. Hope this helps... Larry . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 06:58:11 -0700 Received: from lkf0174.deltanet.com (lkf0174.deltanet.com [199.171.191.174]) by mail1.deltanet.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA12797 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 06:54:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31B6E3FC.5D15@............> Date: Thu, 06 Jun 1996 06:58:20 -0700 From: Ray Gilman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: psn-l@............. Subject: New Siesmometer X-URL: http://psn.quake.net/maillist.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... To: Distribution Hi all; I was prompted by some of you to tell more of my siesmometer. Anyway here is. It is home built, designed by me. It is a horizontal 2 axis short period device that utilizes a verticaly oriented pendulum. It consists of a 10 foot section of 4" dia. sewer pipe, a fiber glass rod and a 5 lb rock cod wieght for the pendulum. My prototype using visous damping ( rock cod wieght suspended in just the right amout of canola oil) however my next version will utilize electromagnet damping ( much like Shaklesford/Gunderson). Sensing the position of the pendulum relative to the frame is done optically, so attached to the fiber glass rod are two mirrors, one for x and one for y. Sensing the position of the pendulum is done by bouncing IR light off the mirror then recieving it with a photodiode. Since signal goes as the inverse square of distance the sensitivity can be pretty good for short distances. This optical arangement and the stiff fiber glass rod is what allows the device to support two axis. So far I am able to measure sensitivities of 30V/.004 in. I chose a short period device simply because the long period Lehman design was prohibitive to me on floor space requirements. Thus this device will mount to the concrete slab of you foundation and occupy as little as 2 sq feet of floor space. Ideally though it wants to be mounted in a concrete slug in your back yard. This interface is a four channel 20 bit A/D with a two channel 16 bit DAC. It is interfaced through the parallel port. Conversion rates are maximum 32us but typically you will program the A/D to do some averaging for you and conversion rates will be about 1 to 2 milliseconds. The interface utilizes its own on board programmable clock to eliminate the jitter associated with the PC. This allows the gain of the A/D in essence to be programmable since it is an integrating/ oversampling type A/D i.e. the faster the conversion rate the less the gain and visa versa. The interface requires a bi directional parallel port. The DAC is used for automatic temperature compenstation. Its output feeds back to the sensing circuitry to counter balance the effects of temperature shifts. It is programmed from the computer, again via the parallel interface. This arrangement allows the computer to average A/D readings over lets say a 1000 or so cycles and compute a correction factor for the DAC. So far it has proven successful even in my garage where the temperature extremes are their worst. The software to support the interface is proprietary to the interface. It supports interrupt driven servicing of the A/D. It is written in C for the dos environment, future versions will support windows. I have built fixtures to support the fabrication of the parts to hold the optics and am in the process of fabicating a circuit board for the sensing electronics. The interface right now is undergoing a major siplification process so it is not ready for circuit fabication. I hope that this answers your questions, sorry I dont have any photos yet, I will publish them as soon as available. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:48:04 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id WAA09914; Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:47:42 -0700 Date: Thu, 6 Jun 1996 22:47:42 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: Oops... cc: psn-l@............. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960605081423.005d7e6c@..............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Larry Cochrane wrote: > The P wave, the first wave that will arrive at your station, > travels about 6.2km (not miles, Ken N. miss spoke) or about 3.8 miles per > second. Oh Yeah... I knew *that*... :( DUH!!! I *really* hate it when I continue to think in miles rather than km! the problem between trying to shift between life in the US and my hobby... Thanks Larry for keeping me straight! :) Ken . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:49:59 -0700 Received: from 206.100.22.151 (ppp-01.microwiz.com [206.100.22.151]) by smoke.microwiz.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09588 for ; Fri, 7 Jun 1996 22:51:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31B9158F.5809@................> Date: Fri, 07 Jun 1996 22:54:23 -0700 From: "Charles P. Watson" Organization: Advanced Geologic Exploration/Seismo-Watch X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Macintosh; U; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: psn-l@............. Subject: Chinese Nuclear Test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Seismo-Watch Brief Earthquake Alert Bulletin No: 96-113 Preliminary data indicates a significant earthquake has occurred: Regional Location: EAST-CENTRAL XINJIANG, CHINA Moment (Mw) Magnitude: n/a Greenwich Mean Date (yr/mth/day): 96/06/08 Greenwich Mean Time (hr/min/sec): 02:55:57 Latitude: 41.62N Longitude: 88.65E Focal Depth: 0.0 Magnitude (Mb, Ms, Ml): mb 6.0; Ms 6.1 Analysis Quality: A Notations: An earthquake registering a preliminary magnitude of Mb 6.0 occurred at 10:55 a.m. local epicentral time, June 6 (02:55 UTC, June 6) in the east-central Xinjiang Province, China. We do not have a Moment magnitude for this event as of yet. The quake was centered along the northeastern Tarim Pendi, along the front to the Kuruktag Mountains. The quake occurred in the heart of the Chinese Nuclear Testing Grounds and may have been a nuclear detonation. The Chinese have routinely tested large nuclear tests registering similar magnitudes. The most recent large tests include events on 950817 (6.0); 951005, (6.1); 931012 (6.4). om . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:00:44 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 19:59:05 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: aleutian quake X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... hi, how well did you Calif. guys record the quake not very large amplit. in Dunedin. caltec gave it Mw 7.9 USGS Ms 7.7 I see that it fell in the rupture zone of the 1957 event Cheers Dave Dave A. Nelson Green Is., Dunedin, South Is.. New Zealand. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:38:30 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960610083728.006a1a14@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 10 Jun 1996 01:37:28 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: Re: aleutian quake X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Both my Lehman and SG sensor received nice seismograms of the event. I'm about 4500Km (2800 miles) from the event. The files 960610a.lc1 (Lehman) and 960610a.lc3 (SG sensor) are now on my system. Both are 40 minutes of record time at 10 samples per second. Larry At 07:59 PM 6/10/96 +1200, you wrote: > >hi, how well did you Calif. guys record the quake not very large >amplit. in Dunedin. caltec gave it Mw 7.9 USGS Ms 7.7 I see that it >fell in the rupture zone of the 1957 event > > > Cheers Dave > > Dave A. Nelson > > Green Is., Dunedin, > South Is.. New Zealand. > > > . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:58:33 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960612045805.0036923c@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 21:58:05 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: A to D card Update X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi, Last week I got several quotes for blank PC boards. I was able to get a good price for the first 35 boards. Now that I know what the blank board cost is going to be I can quote a prices for the A to D card. The EMON only version, this version will not have any timing circuitry need to run SDR or WWV time correction circuitry: 12 Bit version = $165.00 16 Bit version = $215.00 SDR basic version. This board will have the timing circuitry need to run my SDR program. This version will not have the WWV time correction circuitry: 12 Bit version = $180.00 16 Bit version = $230.00 SDR version with WWV time correction circuitry: 12 Bit version = $195.00 16 Bit version = $245.00 The last option is a temperature stabilized crystal oscillator. This option can only be used if you are going to run SDR with or without the WWV time correction: Add $85.00 to the last two options above. Notes: EMON only version: The current EMON version will not work with this new board. I need to get together with Ted Blank so we can get a version of his software working with the board. Until then I will take orders, but not money, for this version. As soon as we have EMON working I will take money and ship boards. The WWV time correction will not work with EMON. You can not order a EMON only version with WWV correction or the temperature stabilized crystal oscillator option. Ordering and Delivery: If you would like one or more of the boards please send me email with the number of boards and the option you would like. Then send me a check for the amount plus shipping to: Larry Cochrane 24 Garden St. Redwood City, CA 94063 The shipping cost is $8.00 for the USA. If you are outside of the USA or Alaska I will need to find out how much the shipping is going to be. I will get back to you with the total price after I receive the order. I will try to ship the boards in 4 to 5 weeks. It will take about 2 to 3 weeks to get the blank PC boards back, I hope to order the boards this week. I will be shipping the boards in the order I get the checks. If you live outside of the USA I will need to have the funds in some form that I can easily cash at my bank, I guess that would be a money order. What you get: You will receive a tested board and a 3 1/4 inch floppy disk with the current versions of SDR and WinQuake and several readme files on how to get SDR and the A/D card up and running. The A/D card uses a stand DB37 connector, each card will come with the mating connector. You will need to solder wires to this connector for each channel you are monitoring and the audio input from your shortwave receiver if you get the WWV time correction option. That's it for now. Thanks to all for being so patient. This project has taken a little longer then I had expected (like most projects), but it looks like we are getting close to having something to ship soon. Regards, Larry . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 01:31:07 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960617083046.0030c320@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 17 Jun 1996 01:30:46 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: SDR and WWV Time Correction X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi, Several people have ask about how SDR and the WWV time correction option works. I just finished writing the readme file for this option and I thought I would post part of it the describes how it works. WWV Time Correction Option With a short-wave receiver tuned to one of the WWV time signal stations (5.0Mhz, 10.0Mhz and 15.0Mhz) it is possible to keep SDR's (and your event files) time to within +-20 milliseconds of UTC (or GMT) time. This is done by taking the audio out of the receiver, usually from the external speaker or earphone jack, and connecting to pins 36 (input signal) and 37 (ground) on the DB37 input/output connector. How it works: Every minute (except at the top of the hour) WWV broadcasts a 800 millisecond 1000Hz tone. On the A to D card is a phase locked loop tone decoder with a bandpass filter tuned to 1000Hz. The output of the tone detector is connected to a input port that can be read by SDR. SDR detects this 800 millisecond tone and uses it to keep track of the time. It does this by averaging several minutes worth of pulses and a lot of digital filtering. About 2/3 of the time it took to write SDR has been the time keeping software code. Short-wave Receiver and WWV: The short-wave receiver should be a digital type so it will stay tuned to the WWV station you select. Radio Shack has a portable digital receiver for under $100.00 (Model DX-375). You will probably need to have an external antenna. This can be a long piece of wire run between two trees or on top or your roof. For SDR to keep correct time it needs to have good reception of one of the WWV frequencies. You will not get 24 hour reception on any one channel, as long as you can get 4 to 6 hours per day will be fine. At my location I get best reception on 5.0Mhz at night and during the day 10.0Mhz or 15.0Mhz. I normally keep my receiver tuned to 5.0Mhz because I get better, and longer, reception at night. ..... Regards, Larry . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 08:20:42 -0700 Received: by dub-img-7.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id LAA04681; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 11:20:19 -0400 Date: 17 Jun 96 11:17:53 EDT From: Robert L Barns <75612.2635@..............> To: quake net Subject: NY metro roster Message-ID: <960617151752_75612.2635_GHL43-1@..............> X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I am a rank novice in this area but a query which I posted on this net resulted in a very useful contact with a nearby seismologist. That prompted the idea that there might be a way to enable this sort of interaction. The objective is to facilitate interaction between those interested in home seismograph stations. I would like to maintain and periodically post a list of those in the NY metropolitan area, say within a radius of 100 miles from NYC. Below are suggested items which you might include in your profile. If you will send me info via e-mail, I will try to format and post it on the PSN net in a useful way. Please include only information which you are willing to have posted. All items are OPTIONAL except name and city and state. ---- First name, last name, street address, city and state, zip, e-mail address, 'phone no. and preferred day-of-week and hours for 'phone discussions. Home seismograph:in operation?, planned in near future?, sometime? If in operation:type of sensor, long, medium or short period, how many axes? Sensitivity? Digital or chart recording? How long in operation? Reporting data to whom? Software in use? Years active in seismoloby? Amateur radio call sign? ---- As an example, my listing would be: Bob Barns, 63 Martins La., Berkeley Heights, NJ 07922 908-464-6785 75612.2635@.............. 'phone Mon. thru Sat, 9-12, 1-4 & 8-10P, Sun 9-12 & 1-4 Nothing in operation, but soon, I hope. Will use computer data logging. Years in seis.: 0.2. Am. radio call KB2IKC . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 12:09:36 -0700 Received: by stealth.cacd.rockwell.com (1.37.109.14/16.2) id AA143968421; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:07:01 -0500 Received: from apollo1.cacd.rockwell.com(131.198.38.6) by stealth.cacd.rockwell.com via smap (V1.3) id sma014393; Mon Jun 17 14:06:37 1996 Received: from pc110417 by apollo1 with SMTP (1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA23120; Mon, 17 Jun 1996 14:08:44 -0500 Received: from cc:Mail SMTPLINK 2.1 by ccmgw1.cacd.rockwell.com id AA835038530; Mon, 17 Jun 96 14:08:09 cst Date: Mon, 17 Jun 96 14:08:09 cst From: "jmhannon" Encoding: 5 Text Message-Id: <9605178350.AA835038530@........................> To: psn-l@............. Subject: Electrolytic Seismograph X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I had a look at the Princeton Earth Physics Project web page and I came away with more questions than answers. Does anyone know how there electrolytic seismograph works? Jim Hannon . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:59:30 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960619045913.002e6dd8@..............> X-Sender: root@.............. X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 21:59:13 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: Re: Electrolytic Seismograph X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I was wondering that myself, if anyone has any info please post it to the list. Larry Cochrane At 02:08 PM 6/17/96 cst, Jim wrote: >I had a look at the Princeton Earth Physics Project web page and I came >away with more questions than answers. Does anyone know how there >electrolytic seismograph works? > >Jim Hannon > > . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:48:23 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 19:47:35 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: quake and volcano X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Larry and all, Larry I decided to post here instead of direct to you just in case others were interested in the current NZ volc. activity.... a great site is here: http://www.geo.mtu.edu/volcanoes/ have stuff on all active world volcanos. and a great sub page on Mt Ruapehu in the North Is. of New Zealand.... images, movies, text The volc. is about 800km to the north of me ....I have some people in that area sending me some ash samples so that I can put them through the X-ray Spectrometer at the univ. Geology Dept. and get a chemical analysis of the ash. It is relatively fine...particle size ~1mm and less very gritty and acidic.... not good for car paint and windscreens, Ruapehu is a typical subduction volc. like the Cascadia Range in the US NW ie andesitic- rhyolitic rather than the basalts of Hawaii and the Auckland city volcanos of NZ. The Pacific Plate is subducting under the North Is. (which is on the Indo-Australian Plate) at the rate of ~ 4cm/yr. Larry the Indonesian Mw7.8 file works a treat your recording looks great e-mailing it as an attached file was a brain storm many thanks. Any of you other guys record it???? I got the best recording of a quake from that region ever.... The amplitude and detail was much larger and better than the M8.1 off Irian Jaya a month or so back I can't explain that one.... cheers Dave Dave A. Nelson Green Is., Dunedin, South Is.. New Zealand. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:53:36 -0700 Received: (from david@localhost) by IPAC11.ipac.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA14368; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:45:30 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 00:45:28 -0700 (PDT) From: David Josephson Subject: Re: Electrolytic Seismograph To: Larry Cochrane cc: psn-l@............. In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19960619045913.002e6dd8@..............> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I don't know specifically how an electrolytic seismograph works, but there are electrolytic tiltmeters and I would guess that they are a similar principle. Inside a sealed cell are two electrodes and a volume of electrolyte (conductive fluid). Depending on the tilt of the assembly, the electrolyte bridges more or less of the electrodes, resulting in less or more resistance. I was surprised to see these things with a noise level and repeatability of 0.05 degrees or so; it wouldn't be too difficult to multiply earth motion to the point where local ground noise got to the 0.1 degree range. On Tue, 18 Jun 1996, Larry Cochrane wrote: > I was wondering that myself, if anyone has any info please post it to the > list. > > Larry Cochrane > > At 02:08 PM 6/17/96 cst, Jim wrote: > >I had a look at the Princeton Earth Physics Project web page and I came > >away with more questions than answers. Does anyone know how there > >electrolytic seismograph works? . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:47:38 -0700 Received: (from shammond@localhost) by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id WAA18849; Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:47:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 19 Jun 1996 22:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Hammond Subject: Re: quake and volcano To: PSN-L@.............. David A Nelson In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Hello David, Glad to see that you are far enough from the volcano to keep out of harm's way. The news here in San Jose has featured video each night. The clips I have seen show it really cook'en. Has any of the ash fallen in your area? As to data for the 8.1 (was it...) I went off to New York for a few weeks and as warm temps set in, my Lehman went off center and asleep at the stop. Maybe Ken recorded it. Regards, Steve Hammond San Jose, California . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 20 Jun 1996 00:22:11 -0700 Date: Thu, 20 Jun 1996 19:21:53 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: quakes and volcanos to those who said hi, Charlie R.; Darrell C.; Steve H., thanks for your interest.... this is a seismic network but at least volcanos are in a geophysics vein..... Charlie glad you enjoyed the mtu. web site the best up to date site I have found so far for current world wide volcanic activity.... I informed Mike Dolan of the activity and he then gets the info. from the NZ science and news sources Mike does a great job. Darrell I haven't see you on this net before... do you run a seismograph?? if not but are interested there is quite a bunch of us on this net who do so and are only too willing to give advice and see others enjoy the fun of seismology don't be afraid to ask.... Steve.... no, no ash fall this far south, only across the North Is.. I got a 0.5 kg pack by courier post this morning from a police officer who lives in the town of Turangi (on the south shore of L. Taupo) ~35 km NE of Mt Ruapehu. It is very gritty, stinks of sulphur, particle size ~3mm and less coloured light to dark grey I was beating my brain " who could I get to sent me a sample and it struck me ' call someone in the local law enforcement office and see if they are willing to help' got on the phone and a toll call later a great response" Steve check Larry's PNS page he has the Indonesian quake on file a very good record.... I presume you have Winquake running on your PC. cheers all Dave Dave A. Nelson Green Is., Dunedin, South Is.. New Zealand. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:15:02 -0700 Received: from lkf0190.deltanet.com (lkf0190.deltanet.com [199.171.191.190]) by mail1.deltanet.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA24896 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:11:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <31CEBF31.6CB3@............> Date: Mon, 24 Jun 1996 09:15:45 -0700 From: Ray Gilman X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: psn-l@............. Subject: Time Standards X-URL: http://psn.quake.net/maillist.html Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... I am interested in receiving the NIST radio frequency time stamp to update the PC time. Can any one give me some pointers on how to do? For instance are there plug in boards for your pc available, or how would I go about designing a board? Date: Mon, 24 Jun 96 11:47:29 cst From: "jmhannon" Encoding: 28 Text Message-Id: <9605248356.AA835634959@........................> To: Ray Gilman , psn-l@............. Subject: Re: Time Standards X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Ray, There are boards for PC, external devices ect. You might want to check out the web site of the "Directorate of Time" http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ They have a lot of info on how time is supplied to users. If you don't know it there is a way to get time over the internet. I just discovered this last week. The above web site discusses this. I am busy designing and building a WWVB reciever for my seismograph station. The commercial ones are too expensive. WWVB is from Fort Collins CO at 60KHz. With this reciever I will have accurate time and a 10MHz clock phase locked to the WWVB for clocking A/D converters ect. I don't have any specific vendor information for boards right now but I can look around if you are interested. Jim Hannon ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Time Standards Author: Ray Gilman at ccmgw1 Date: 6/24/96 11:16 AM I am interested in receiving the NIST radio frequency time stamp to update the PC time. Can any one give me some pointers on how to do? For instance are there plug in boards for your pc available, or how would I go about designing a board? . Date: Tue, 25 Jun 96 12:48:43 cst From: "jmhannon" Encoding: 72 Text Message-Id: <9605258357.AA835724974@........................> To: Mike Turnbull , jmhannon@......... psn-l@............. Cc: rayg@.................... Subject: Re[2]: Time Standards X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Michael, WWVB is a different type of signal than WWVH or WWV. My receiver will only work for WWVB. I tried to find out if there is anything like WWVB in Australia and came up blank. There maybe but it was not in any of my references. One of the problems with the HF time signals such as WWV, WWVH, CHU or VNG is that, unless you live within about 5 miles of the transmitter, the signal will not always be avaliable, at least on the same frequency. You would probably need to take the approach that Larry Cocharne has taken with his A/D card. That is have an accurate oscillator and keep time with it, adjusting the time when avaliable from the radio signal. The 60KHz signal from WWVB only covers North America and except during very severe magnetic storms is avaliable to use as both a time and frequency reference. I will share my design with anyone who is interested. I may even put it on my WEB page. It will however be a while before it is avaliable. We are in the process of moving and my workshop is shut down unitl we get it set up at our new home. Another approach to time standards is the use of a GPS receiver. I haven't explored this enough yet to say just what will work and how good you can get time. Internally a GPS receiver must have time to within nanoseconds to be able to get a position fix. Some receivers output the time info along with the location on a serial data line. My Magellan does this and the units we build here at Rockwell do also. What I don't know is how precisely this serial data can be read. On some units the 1 second tic is aligned with a specific transition of the serial data waveform. Lyndhurst, Victoria, Australia is VNG and it transmitts on 4.5, 7.5 and 12.5 MHz. Jim Hannon ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Time Standards Author: Mike Turnbull at ccmgw1 Date: 6/24/96 5:38 PM At 11:47 AM 6/24/96 cst, you wrote, in your reply to ray Gilman: >I am busy designing and building a WWVB reciever for my seismograph >station. The commercial ones are too expensive. WWVB is from Fort Collins >CO at 60KHz. With this reciever I will have accurate time and a 10MHz >clock phase locked to the WWVB for clocking A/D converters ect. I don't >have any specific vendor information for boards right now but I can look >around if you are interested. > >Jim Hannon > I'm in Queensland, Australia and can pick up the WWVH broadcasts from Hawaii. I have the same problem as ray and would like to plug the NIST signal into my PC. I'd be very interested in having a look at the circuits you are using to build the receiver and decoder. Are they your own design. There is a time broadcast transmitted from Lindhurst in Victoria, Australia which I am also checking out. ============================================================================ Michael Turnbull Coordinator - Faculty of Applied Science, Bundaberg Campus Central Queensland University Phone (071) 50 7069 Fax (071) 50 7090 . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 22:02:54 -0700 Message-Id: X-Sender: dann@........ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 17:03:09 +1200 To: PSN-L@............. From: dann@........ (David A Nelson) Subject: latest NZ quake X-Mailer: X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Hi all , here' is the latest NZ quake report: U.T.: 1996 June 27 0334 NZST: 1996 June 27 15:34 Lat, Long: 38.46S 177.80E Location: 30 km northwest of Gisborne Focal depth: 151 km Magnitude: 5.4 felt by the locals, this event was some 1100 km from me and not too far above the noise floor. cheers all, Dave Dave A. Nelson Green Is., Dunedin, South Is.. New Zealand. . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:49:26 -0700 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19960628064902.0032bf90@...................> X-Sender: root@................... X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 23:49:02 -0700 To: psn-l@............. From: Larry Cochrane Subject: New SDR Release X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [psn-l@.................... Hi Everyone, I have release a new version of my SDR (Seismic Data Record) program. This release is mostly related to my new 12/16 bit Analog To Digital Converter card (see http://psn.quake.net/atod.html). Included in the sdr15.zip file is a tonedet.gif file. This is a schematic of the WWV time correction circuitry used by my A/D card. You can uses this schematic to build a breadboard so your PC-Labs board and SDR can keep time reference to WWV using a shortwave receiver. Please see the WWVCORR.TXT file for more information. Other features and bug fixes: When the system is in the single channel mode the display now has the current input data, averaged over 1 second, and the minimum and maximum data points as a text string on the bottom of the screen. SDR can now use any of the following interrupts: 2, 3, 4, 5 and 7. And I fixed a nasty bug that would not allow Replay and auto save to work it the system was run using UTC time (UTC time offset = 0). If you are using a PC-Labs 711s card and you upgrade from version 1.4 and you have problems getting this new version to work, you will need to change the default IRQ setting. SDR versions before 1.5 used interrupt 2, with version 1.5 it is now possible to use other interrupt lines. The default is now interrupt 5. If you are having problems you can do one of the following: 1. Remove or disable he card that is using interrupt 5. This is normally used by one of the Printer interrupts. 2. Delete the SDR.INI file and enter interrupt 2 when prompted. 3. Add the following line using a text editor to your SDR.INI file: IntNumber=2 This will tell SDR to use interrupt 2 instead of the default. If you have a PC-Labs 711s board please try this new version. If you have any problems drop me a line. You can download SDR15.ZIP files from: http://psn.quake.net/software/sdr15.zip or using FTP to psn.quake.net directory /software/sdr15.zip I also have the following FTP mirror sites: ftp.seismicnet.com directory /psn/software and ftp.netcom.com directory /pub/co/cochrane Regards, Larry Cochrane . Received: from [198.68.231.1] by sys5.webtronics.com (NTMail 3.01.03) id psnarchive; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:28 -0700 Received: (from kjn@localhost) by netcom12.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id JAA03725; Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken Navarre Subject: New SDR15 To: PSN Mail List Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Info: Evaluation version at sys5.webtronics.com X-Info: Public Seismic Network Mailing List X-ListMember: psnarchive@............. [PSN-L@.................... Larry, just a note to tell you that I installed the new SDR15 and it looks perfect with the PC-LAB 711s. I'll let you know if any bug shows up. Install was a snap. Ken .